The war against the Jews (2)

Darren

Bowen makes my skin crawl, the problem is he broadcasts on a corporation that not only let's him spout his lies but agree's with them, and all of this is beamed into millions of homes who know no better.

Brian O'Connor

Melanie wrote:

It's attempted mass murder. Why are Israelis not seen as victims like anyone else?

Perhaps you should have written: "Why are Israelis not seen as victims like virtually everyone else?"

Forgive my cynicism, but that seems closer to the truth.

field

We can have an argument about the West Bank, about Jerusalem's status and so on, but the BBC and other media commentators in my view this down the wrong end of the telescope. Either we accept UN member Israel's existence as legitimate or we don't. If we do - and the UK has recognised Israel for 60 years - then we should be looking at arguments over who has done what when but what are the ideological objectives of the players. It is clear that Hamas's objective is to destroy Israel and drive out all but a handful of pliable Jews in quaint costume. Whilst it is true that some in Israel formerly pursued a policy of "Greater Israel" - an absurd and fateful policy - I think there is no appetite for that now. Israel is ready for real peace. Hamas is ready for more war. The BBC's headline is shameful: "Gazans angry and unbowed" The headline makes sense only if you think the Israelis are targetting the Gazan population. There would be many more than 60 deaths if they were. It is clear this was a targetted mission against Hamas terrorists. Incidentally we've had so much managed news from Hamas that we have to treat even that figure with a degree of scepticism unless backed up by some reputable news sources.

Rachael

It's a classic Bowen tactic to try to blur the origins of this conflict when he opens his reports. It means he can just skip the reasons for what's going on and go "Oh, look, if you play it by casualty numbers the Palestinians are victims and Israel is the aggressor." Why am I forced to pay a licence fee poll tax for Bowen's disingenuousness?

osama

The Lusitania had civilians on board. It was clearly a ship that could have been a danger to the German war effort, and the German navy didn't want to take the risk. Any ship that could have carried munitions was a danger to Germany. And that's why German sailors cheered when they heard of its sinking. They weren't more bloodthirsty than anybody else. They believed that this was the way that the war, total war, had to be waged.
"There is no way that the German war effort could be accomplished without civilian casualties. It's a change in the nature of the war. Most people on the Lusitania didn't believe it, but very shortly thereafter, they did. And the way in which German forces waged that war was so important in generating a propaganda campaign of hatred: not of the German leadership, but of the German nation as a whole – of everybody who stood behind the German flag and were responsible for those who were drowned in the Lusitania.
"[They] were responsible for war crimes that were generalized not as the responsibility of a handful of officers who gave the orders to sink the Lusitania, gave the orders to use poison gas, but the whole German nation. Now this kind of generalized stereotyping we sometimes call racism. It was the case that there was the propaganda of racial hatred in the First World War generated by the new kinds of hostility, the new kinds of weapons, and the new and appalling levels of casualties that occurred in the First World War."

szeni

Abbas, whose 'adamemic' career was based on denial of the Holocaust, is now saying that 56 dead Gazans, most of whom terrorists, is 'worse than the Holocaust'. Even David Irving would blush at this calculus

osama

Cross reference with Pancho Villa:
Zimmermann Telegram 'On the first of February, we intend to begin unrestricted submarine warfare. In spite of this, it is our intention to endeavor to keep the United States of America neutral. In the event of this not succeeding, we propose an alliance on the following basis with Mexico: That we shall make war together and make peace together. We shall give generous financial support, and an understanding on our part that Mexico is to reconquer the lost territory in New Mexico, Texas, and Arizona. The details of settlement are left to you. You are instructed to inform the President [of Mexico] of the above in the greatest confidence as soon as it is certain that there will be an outbreak of war with the United States and suggest that the President, on his own initiative, invite Japan to immediate adherence with this plan; at the same time, offer to mediate between Japan and ourselves. Please call to the attention of the President that the ruthless employment of our submarines now offers the prospect of compelling England to make peace in a few months.' For Germany insert Iran?

YA

"..Israel kills 60 Palestininas in Gaza.."
"..Israeli airstrikes kill 60 people.."
"..urged to stop Palestinian attacks on Israeli territory.." and so on.

Not only BBC but all media accepted these rules, according to which Israel is "territory" from where some "forces" "kill people". Never heard combination "Israeli civilians", maximum "israelis". But they all served or will be serving in "forces", so they are not civilians.

Thinkster

Darren: As per my posting in Melanie's previous WOTJ column, the reason this Albeeb chap makes your skin crawl is this: We are pro-programmed to feel uneasy if we distrust someone - something about gut feeling and instinct - and that's before any black and white facts become apparent. I may be wrong, but this chap is most likely a pathological liar - and is unable to escape his persona and the situation he had gotten himself into. Your skin is crawling because you are human and your instinct is kicking into gear. Nature works, most of the time!

Amazing how in the US, a journalist who is proven to be engaged in plagiarism or worse would be de-throned (reporters for the following have been fired over the last few years: New York Times, USA Today, CBS News - perhaps more), while here, it seems they become an eternal fixture on our flat screen RDM. (Reality Distortion Machine.)

Joshua

I remember when Bowen was interviewing a Gaza settler just before the pullout. She told him that it would all end in tears. Bowen responded (more or less the exact words): "Yes, but we in Britain are now under threat because of you."

Joshua

Stephen Pollard writes: A BBC mole has sent me this briefing for BBC staff from the BBC's Middle East Editor, Jeremy Bowen, on what lies ahead this year. It's all too predictable. The "fragmentation" of Palestinian society has, in Mr Bowen's view, nothing to do with the Palestinians and everything to do with Israel (the death of hope, caused by a cocktail of Israel's military activities, land expropriation and settlement building and the financial sanctions imposed on the Hamas led government�). Indeed, Israel is to blame for almost everything. The Palestinians are not responsible for anything; Israel is the culpable party. He has contempt for every Israeli politician he mentions; Ehud Barak, for instance, is described as having killed "various Palestinians", written as if he did so for the sake of it. If this is what passes for high-level analysis at the BBC, is it any wonder its reporting is so poisonous?" -- To read the memo, follow this link: http://tinyurl.com/yumsyl

PMM

Melanie forgot the Black Tom Island tremendous blast on July 30, 1916 in Jersey City, N.J. No one ever talks about this one, maybe because only 7 people were kllled in the sabotage by the Germans on continental USA less than two miles from lower Manhattan...

Alcuin

If someone mugs Bowen in the street, no one comes to his aid, and the Police just stand and watch, he might, just might, understand how Israel feels.

No longer do I think I am listening to a British radio station - Today sounds like Lord Hawhaw (or Al-Manar) these days. Dissembling, sanctimonious, smug and, above all, cowardly.

The link to the Bowen piece no longer works - this does.

YA

Thinkster: Bowen is unpleasant mug, you are right. He has a bit shy look, but that doesn't compensate. Another one who is widely accepted in government and media circles is Paddy Ashdown. His "documentary" on I/P was hopelessly biased. Those "settlers" that he selected for interview, I think he found them in psychiatric clinics. And don't forget "We are all Hamas" superstar Alan Jonston. However, at least 2 correspondents have recently retired from this activity - mentioned Jonston, and this foxy blond Emma Heard. Yes they all had the same quite frightening attitude: "You know I'm lying and I know that you know, and it is our destiny to keep it this way."

BJ

The rockets started seven years ago and the futile cycle of attack and retaliation has continued ever since. The Hamas leadership has repeatedly offered a ceasefire ie. an end to incursions, assasinations, tank and missile attacks on Gaza etc in return for an end to rocket attacks on Israel. Most Israelis according to opinion polls appear to agree that this is the obvious solution. Incidently, by the internationally accepted definition of occupation Gaza is still occupied territory.

david solomon

"Israeli minister threatens to unleash a 'holocaust' on Palestinians" Controversially, Matan Vilnai used the word "shoah" - which is almost exclusively used in Israel to describe the Nazi extermination of the Jews. Im interested to hear what spin melanie will put on this.

alan stoddart

BBC reporter Martin Patience yet again repeats (in 'Gazans angry and unbowed') the intentional sleight of hand that only 13 Israelis have died since 2000...he qualifies by saying in rocket attacks...not bothering to update the latest casualties. The figure for all Israeli casualties in the period 2000-20006 alone is 1,126 killed by Palestinian violence. Patience has used this figure(13) in previous reports in the same way clearly trying to minimise Israeli deaths.

David Revelman

The gangs of armed thugs in Gaza and the West bank, sorry, I mean the Palestinian security forces in the liberated territories, that the west pay for, are not much good at stoping rocket attacks. Maybe we should stop paying their wages and supplying their weapons.

field

It's time for all people who love freedom and democracy to get behind Israel and support it in the face of these lethal rocket attacks and libellous media attacks. If Israel falls we are next.

Jayde

Hi Melanie I get so thoroughly fed up with listening to and reading so much ignorance (and bias) from people who give others the impression they are so clued up on the history of Israel, when they haven't got a clue. It is infuriating, embarrasing, and sad, but you give me hope Melanie. You are my breath of fresh air Melanie, keep up the good work.

Andy Gill

Bowen has previously admitted on air that he judges Israel and Hamas by different standards. I do detect some small signs of progress however. In the conflict in Lebanon, the shelling of Northern Israel which had been going on for about 6 years was never mentioned at all on the BBC. This time, the rocket attacks on Southern Israel have made an appearance in the BBC's discourse.

Louise

And to think that Bowen is the man (if I'm not much mistaken) to whom the Beeb has entrusted responsibility for ensuring "even-handedness" in its ME coverage following complaints regarding the truly egregious Orla Guerin and the lachrymose-when-Arafat-died Barbara Plett. He is every bit as biased as Guerin was, the only difference being that he does not sound like a fiendish Fury when he speaks. I recall an interview with him for the Daily Telegraph a few years ago - he blamed "trigger-happy" Israeli soldiers for the death of his Arab driver or photographer (I forget precisely which) and this seems to have turned him permanently against Israel. Not that he was non-partsan before!

Liza Bowen

Darren: "Bowen makes my skin crawl" Indeed, and let us not forget that before him we had the sophistry delivered in the lilting tones of equally ghastly Orla Guerin. The BBC hit rock bottom years ago. http://www.honestreporting.co.uk/articles/critiques/BBCs_Orla_Exposed.asp

alan stoddart

Not relevant to this at all but funny...regarding Russian elections, the observers state: 'The russia election failed to draw on the democratic potential of the electorate.’

You mean it was rigged?

Ann

"Matan Vilnai used the word "shoah" - which is almost exclusively used in Israel to describe the Nazi extermination of the Jews" - nonsense. I don't believe you have even been to Israel.

GNO

BBC is run by spiteful and malicious people. The anti-Israeli stories are put out deliberately to annoy people like us. The more we complain, the more it encourages them to rubbish Israel. There must be a name for this psychological condition.

Paul B

Alan Stoddart, Sir, please may you provide a link to where you get your figures for Israeli deaths in the conflict since 2000. Not because I don`t believe you Sir, I do, but I would like to use your figures in debate with others, as unfortunately the disgraceful BBC coverage of the conflict has led to many to now believe that Israel is now the aggressor, rather than the victim. Many thanks Paul

Paddy

One of these days they'll lose that licence fee and I'll hold a street party outside Broadcasting House. They think they've got God-given ass to tell us what to think and take our money for the pleasure of doing so. Stuff them. Stuff Bowen and stuff that ghastly Guerin woman who's self-aggrandising tone of voice would make a dog sick.

London Calling

The War Against The Jews 1 In my opinion to use the word 'Shoah' in the context that it was said, was threatening, and whether or not it also means 'Disaster' is another matter, but both meanings are linked, therefore it was a careless use of words and ultimately homed in on by hungry journalist's looking for a juicy story to sell, you reap what you sew, so words should be chosen carefully, unless what is said has intent derived from its meaning, in which case, it means exactly that, the threat of a Holocaust or disaster. The War Against The Jews Part 2 I am neither Jewish or Arab, but as I am British and it was the British who lay the foundation for the creation of the state of Israel, I felt a responsibility to study the History of events that has created this potential Black Hole and found it had more holes in it than a cheese grater. Brief History Lesson Link: http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm Current Bloodshed between Palestine and Israel. When innocent men,women and children are killed on both sides, no one's a winner, and if the two sides are unable to control their attacks/self defense attacks, then the U.N or other powers should restore border control's, I know its a nightmare in the making, but solutions are paramount and must be found. The reality is You have kids growing up in small camps in Palestine going through 10 check points a day to buy groceries, is it no wonder it is a breeding ground of hatred and recruitment against Israel, rightly or wrongly. Personally, I don't see peace between Palestine and Israel for many generations to come especially under the present system, and sadly many many more innocent lives will be lost.

alan stoddart

Paul B: stats come from Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs...list of this and other figures at this link: file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/My%20Documents/Israeli%20and%20Palestinian%20Deaths%20-%20Israeli-Palestinian%20ProCon_org.htm

and this directly: http://www.israelipalestinianprocon.org/Documentlistpdf/deathsmfa.pdf

Dee Ranged

Melanie. We must simply have more of this

John

Perhaps the Israeli government should exclude the BBC from their territory. If this happened would the BBC take up coverage from Palestine land? I think not as they would be open to kidnapping etc as in the past.

s. Jackson

Discussing Israel these days with the average Brit is like embarking on a long journey. It takes you all round the houses, calling at ‘Islamists mean no harm’ from those who have not watched Hamas Bunny Rabbit T.V . recently; but whatever other areas it visits it always ends up in the same place. The terminus is invariably “Doubting the legitimacy of Israel because Israel stole the Arabs’ land. “ And variations on that theme.

Too many people feel that outrage alone bestows expertise upon them. Fueled by years of misinformation and incompetence spewed out from the media, and worst of all from the once respected BBC whose reputation for reliability, earned by others long ago, they complacently rely on now.
Jeremy Bowen is not up to the job and his continuing seniority as the BBC’s Middle East editor or whatever he is, is an absolute disgrace. Not only is he blatantly biased against Israel, but he is hopelessly ignorant of its history.

Paul B

Thank you Alan

Joe Strummer

As someone of Ulster Protestant / Unionist descent, who were of course the BBC designated " bad guys" in the Northern Irish conflict, the oppressive and one-sided reportage currently emanating from Gaza is uncannily similar to what I used to see and read from Belfast by our scrupulously neutral and impartial BBC. IRA terrorists would plant a bomb causing death and massive devastation, yet the British Army and the local police force would be blamed for " not clearing the area in time." Irish Republican sectarian terrorists who tried to overthrow the democratic process in that other tiny state of Ulster by bomb and bullet were always the victims and never the perpetrators of mindless atrocities and were forever given an open platform by the BBC to air their "grievances". The people of Israel, like the people of Ulster, deserve to exist in peace and free from terrorism, but don't expect the BBC ever to be even -handed in reporting what is really going on in Gaza. That is clearly not what they do.

Kenneth

London calling: "the U.N or other powers should restore border control's". Do you mean like the U.N. controlled the Lebanon/Israel border, allowing Hezbollah to regroup and build up their forces for another attack on Israel? The only people happy to see such an arrangement in Gaza would be either fools or Palestinians.

field

There isn't much point in discussing who started World War 2. Both sides claimed it was the other side who did.

andrew

To the list of measures of self-defense that, to Israelis and to Israelis only, are denied, one should add the purely defensive ones like the erection of a barrier (apartheid, etc...) It is hard to tell which press is worse, the English or the French one. Thank you, Ms Phillips.