Could I trouble you to move so I can attack, please?

Kevyn Bodman

Whoops, not right this time Melanie. IF Olmert's idea could be made to work it would have both physical and propaganda benefits. It is true, as far as I can see, that Hamas welcome the chance to take civilian casualties. Denying the enemy what they want is a good tactic.

Austin Barry

It seems that the Israeli cabinet has decided that Israel will "continue to further peace efforts while maintaining operational freedom to conduct counterterrorism measures and focusing on hasbara (public diplomacy) efforts to bolster Israel's media image". The impossible reconciliation of these three propositions demonstrates exactly Israel's dilemma. In the short, medium and long term there appears to be no way out for Israel.

Bob Latchford

On the subject of human shields Ms Phillips, do you thinks its ethical to use the children of your enemy as human shields as Israel has done? What looney-left islamist news source reported this? OH!! Ms Phillips very own Daily Mail!! http://www.palestineremembered.com/images/dailymail_humanshield.jpg

phil

Is this man latchford so crazed with hatred that he cant even understand what he has written himself -how can Israel use the poor Palestinian children as human shields -perhaps they are using David Blain the illusionist (sorry David) -you flit from blog to blog disseminating lies and hatred ,taking up space where intelligent people like to discuss matters , reasonably on the whole, and using the same name as that unfortunate everton legend .I probably speak for most of us who write here (I dont wish to swear)go somewhere else -I have offered you the cost of a call to anyone who cares to hear what you say and now i will improve my offer by including your bus fare .I dont think even the BNP would let you on.

Bob Latchford

unfortunately Phil, this is an open blog. I am not insulting anyone, I am not libelling anyone. I must say, you are coming across like a fascist wishing to eliminate any opposition voices. And dont go down the route of trying to label me as a BNP supporter, you will just make yourself look foolish.

Bob Latchford

Oh, and if you think I am lying, look at the link I provided. Are you accusing the Daily Mail of doctoring a picture, and misleading its readers?

phil

bob if you think i could be a fascist it proves even more what a strange guy you are -you are not insulting me -just yourself

Bob Latchford

It is a fascist trait to attempt to stifle the voice of the opposition. If the glove fits, my dear.

roger cotty

bob ought to get a grip stopping kids throwing stones by cuffing one of their friends to to bonnet is a little different to placing you rocket launchers under civillian houses in the hope that any counterstrike kills the families above. but hey bob no one could ever accuse of retaining a sense of perspective!

phil

bob i dont think i will bother you again -i will leave the rest of our readers to laugh at your nonsense -try writing a book with ann , from the opposite side of the divide -maybe together you can wrestle each other until the hatred is squeezed out of both of you -you both are ducated ,but sadly no sense .

Lynne T

The Chinese say one picture tells a thousand words and Bob Latchford's link indeed shows a picture of a youth chained to a tank. The accompanying text, however, is illegible. Regardless of what the report beside it says, as who knows who filed the report, it is doubtful that we are witnessing the picture of a "human shield" as Latchford claims, but more likely of a youth accosted after throwing projecties or other similar act.

Rob

What right does the Israeli Defence Minister have to "evacuate" anyone from Gaza, which isn't part of Israel? In any case, Barak would do better to move Israel's own human shields? If he gave Hamas the option of striking at military targets without the civilians the brave IDF hide behind, we could see how much credibility to give the supposed moral distinction beteen the two sides. However, even if they stop cowering behind Israeli Arabs, I dare say the Israelis will continue their policy of hiding behind Palestinian civilians during their heroic missions.

PHIL

For our friend rob .the last time i saw tv pictures of an Israeli soldier in the hands of the Palesrinians he was torn to pieces and thrown through a window -did you find that on utube too ?even you noticed that the Israelis suspended the vehicle commander -No army can stop individuals from breaking the rules but it can attempt to stop them -what do your friends do ?NADA HOMBRE NADA

Joanne

Regarding what Lynne T says above about a picture being worth a thousand words... A photo can have a big impact; unfortunately, it can also be misleading, especially with a mistaken caption to go with it. Remember that photo of an Israeli soldier standing over a bloodied Palestinian guy? It turned out to be an Israeli policeman standing over a Jewish student he had rescued after the latter had been beaten up by some Palestinians. A picture can be worth more than a thousand words. Problem is, sometimes they're the wrong words.

Rob

Phil - niope, didn't find it on YouTibe. Do you have a link, or did you dream it?

PHIL

check your history rob -those soldiers were dangled out of a window -butchered !

PHIL

rob try this for starters -we all saw it on tv -all over the world -------------Italy's Mediaset TV showed one of the soldiers, dangling upside down, apparently attached to a rope. The crowd stood below waving fists and cheering. The body was dropped into the compound, where the mob stomped on the corpse and beat it with the broken bars of a window grille-----------I suggest you do some research ,nevertheless one terrible act does not mean a nation concurs as you would like us to think on your other blog about baruch goldstein -of course it was heinous -it was the act of one crazed man with no authority from anyone -so i would like to think abu mazen would have been horrified by what those people did too

Rob

The problem with you, Phil, is that you use one set of standard for Israeli Jews and one for everyone else. Yes of course Baruch Goldstein was a "lone gunman", just the same as the guy who murdered the yeshiva students. Of course his act didn't have official sanction, anty more than the guy who murdered the yeshiva students. And of course he had a substantial fan club, like the yeshiva murderer. (Every year on the anniversary of his massacre the Israeli police have to break up a sizeable demo.) You even have some of his fans commenting on this blog (there's a bloke called Sergey on the "Unspeakable" thread who explicitly tries to justify Goldsteins's actions, and I didn't spot you or your Zionist chums all jumping down his throat to complain. When anyone mentions Israeli atrocities you remind us that they can't be blamed on all Jews, or even all Israelis, and of course that's true. But you're happy, not only to turn a blind eye to the likes of Sergey and other Zionist terror apologists, but to assume that all Palestinians support, and are to blame for, for every atrocity committed against Israeli Jews. Well sorry, Phil, you can't have it both ways. And since I didn't see the clip you describe with the Israeli soldier do please tell me where I can find it. Not that having a video is necessarily a guarantee of veracity, as the interesting al_Durrah trial is showing. But I'd still be interested to know what evidence you've got.

PHIL

Rob I, will not bother after this but you have already referred to my *cronies* and now you tell me I am a Zionist -well if I was I would be living in Israel ,which I am not and have no intention to -so much for your knowledge of Zionism !!! It must be obvious yet again to you that I deplore what Baruchh Goldstein did -it was a crime in any sense of the word -but his actions were condemned by virtually every Israeli and Jew -a far cry from your friends the Palestinians reaction to the yeshiva massacre-bullets and lolipops -sergeys comments are from a very small group of isolated people -sad and unworthy views from afar-do you want me to chastise him too ? -Just to help you along the way Menachim Begin won the nobel peace prize ,and wasnt it him you wanted to blame for the king david hotel debacle ?-you can find the true history of that on wikipedia and why dont you just type in your browser Israeli soldier dangling from a rope -or something similar -it will not be too hard for you to find -try this --- .A day of rage, revenge and bloodshed - Telegraph At 9.30, three Israeli soldiers, reservists working as drivers, took a wrong ... One of the soldiers was seen ----------------www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2000/10/13/wmid113.xml 20 oct 2000 rob --perhaps you may now adjust your views ,even at this late stage we may bring you back to our point of view -PEACE AND JUSTICE FOR BOTH PEOPLES (yes in capital letters ) .

Rob

Phil: thanks for the link. I genuinely didn't remember the story, but as it was in 2000 that may be why. As I said, you persist in desribing Goldstein's fan club as a bunch of fringe cazies while their Palestinian counterparts, according to you, are the entire population. I suppose if every Palestinian is a potential murderer that makes your denial of civilan killings by israel that much easier. Yes, I do blame Manachem begin for the King David hotel. yes he did get the Nobel prize. So did Yasser Arafat, and I don't think he deserved it either. There are plenty of Bristih Zionists, most of whom do indeed emigrate eventually. If you're not one I apologise for the slur, and I suppose we're stuck with you....

PHIL

ok rob I have eventually needled you into the truth -it took to the last line of your last blog for you to drop the pretence-but sadly for you i,m not going anywhere -and one last point i never sais there are no civilian casualties ,of course there are ,but not targeted ones -can you finally understand that .

PHIL

by the way rob it was no slur -i would have worn the badge with pride had i been one