Britain's least effective lobby?

Matt

The "Israel lobby" consists mainly, I believe, of right-minded Britons who recognise that Israel is a fellow democracy with very unusual and real security problems, and deserves Britain's support. I include myself in that category. If we were organised, we might be more effective, but we're not. But we're getting there.

David Lindsay

As Oborne writes:

"For instance, Conservative Friends of Israel (CFI) – once described by the famous Conservative politician and historian as "the largest organisation in western Europe dedicated to the cause of the people of Israel" – claims that 80% of all Tory MPs are members. The Labour Friends of Israel is equally formidable. In 2001, Jon Mendelsohn, a former chairman of LFI and now Gordon Brown's chief election fundraiser, was quoted in the Jerusalem Post as saying that "Zionism is pervasive in New Labour. It is automatic that Blair will come to Labour Friends of Israel meetings."
Since 2001, LFI has arranged more than 60 free trips to Israel for MPs. LFI and CFI trips account for an astonishing 13% of all funded trips abroad for MPs and candidates. That's more trips to Israel, with a population smaller than London's, than to any other country.
Furthermore, those in many sensitive foreign affairs, defence and intelligence posts in the Commons are often Labour or Conservative Friends of Israel. Mike Gapes, chair of the foreign affairs select committee, is a former deputy chair of the LFI. Kim Howells, chair of the intelligence and security committee (and a former Middle East minister), used to chair LFI. James Arbuthnot, chair of the powerful Commons defence select committee, is also the serving parliamentary chair of the CFI."

Which past of this is not the case? Unless at least some of it is, then yes, we are indeed talking about a very formidable lobby indeed. As Oborne concludes:

"The pro-Israel lobby, in common with other lobbies, has every right to operate and indeed to flourish in Britain. But it needs to be far more open about how it is funded and what it does. This is partly because the present obscurity surrounding it can, paradoxically, give rise to conspiracy theories that have no basis in fact. But it is mainly because politics in a democracy should never take place behind closed doors. It should be out in the open for all to see."

Shouldn't it? If not, why not?

Ellen

"politics in a democracy should never take place behind closed doors. It should be out in the open for all to see"

This is published in a newspaper whose editor hired his own daughter and who instead of being out in "the open for all to see" about the fact she was Isabella Rusbridger, allowed her to style herself 'BellaM'.

You couldn't make it up.

John Edwards

Were you really expecting Hague to support the Israeli shelling of the UN Headquarters in Gaza?

cuffleyburgers

Hague's comments seem to me very balanced and exactly the position I would want and expect my country's foreign office to take.

Britain doesn't need an Israel lobby. Britain needs a government that stands up for the interests of the British people. In most cases these will align us with Israel, clearly the only friendly democracy in the region.

And in admiration of whose fortitude and courage I yield to nobody.

But that doesn't mean they're always right, Ms Phillips.

GaryO

Melanie, my heart goes out to you and Cif Watchers who have to read, listen and watch the daily torrent of lies, propaganda and hatred propelled against Israel and Jews on a daily basis.

It must be gut wrenching!

After secretly filming muslim preachers spouting hate, the producers of Channel 4's Dispatches programme, in an astonishing act of reverse justice, were threatened by the police for stirring up racial hatred and were subsequently humiliated by the courts and were ordered to pay out a six-figure sum for wrongly claiming this documentary of Islamist extremists was faked.

Do you think the police would be running out to protect the Jewish community in this way?

Matt

David Lindsay: When I write a letter of complaint to my MP about his comments about Israel in a parliamentary debate, or when I write to the BBC to complain about a ludicrously one-side Middle East report, should my complaint be on public record? Do I not have the right to do my lobbying in private? Should I ask the left-wing intelligentsia for permission before donating to a pro-Israel cause? MYOB!

alan stoddart

I would look upon the children with their distorted limbs and feel the tragedy of that man-made famine which had the country in its grip.
“Do not pity us,” some of the peasants would say, “but pity those who live down around Poltava and more to the south. There, whole villages are empty, for ALL HAVE DIED, and in many communities HALF HAVE PERISHED.”
But for me the famine in those villages was pitiful enough. Soon I was to learn more, however, for before many days were over I heard why the famine had come, how the Communists had treated many of the parents who were seeking food for their young, and how there was hunger even in a great city like Kharkov.

One of them stroked his beard and scratched his head and replied: “It is because the Communists have cursed God. They have tried to banish God from our midst, and the punishment has come in the form of death. When Holy Mother Russia believed in God, the fields became a mass of gold and the cattle and horses multiplied.
“But now the revenge has come for all the blasphemy and the evil which has been preached.”
An old peasant interrupted: “They tried to take away the holy ikons which I had hanging on the wall, but I said to them: “Leave me my ikons, for I am a peasant and not a dog.”

“The Communists came and seized our land, they stole our cattle and they tried to make us work like serfs in a farm where nearly everything was owned in common” – the eyes of the group of Ukrainian farmers flashed with anger as they spoke to me – “and do you know what they did to those who resisted? They shot them ruthlessly.”

The Communists I spoke to did not deny that they had ruthlessly exiled the hardest working farmers.
On the contrary they were proud of it and boasted that they would show mercy to those who wanted to own their own land.
“We must be strong and crush the accursed enemies of the working class,” the Communists would say to me, “Let them suffer now. We have no place for them in our society.”
Nor did they deny the shootings that had gone on in the villages.
“If any man, woman or child goes out into the field at night in the Summer and picks a single ear of wheat, then the punishment according to law is death by shooting,” the Communists explained to me.
One child who denounced his mother to the secret police for plucking wheat at night was made into a great hero throughout Russia.
His praise was lauded in all the schools as the boy who was noble enough to betray his mother for the good of the state!

“So they sent the Red army soldiers to force them,” they told me. “But the soldiers would not shoot upon their fellow peasants.
“What did they do? They called the YOUNG COMMUNISTS in from the town and THEY shot down all the peasants who would not give up their land and their cows.”

Gareth

Me too Matt and millions like me.
Like most people in this country, we follow Winston Churchill's ideals and are friends of Israel, and in that.....................there is no contradiction.
Unlike David Lindsay and his intellectual friends.

C. Gee

David Lindsay:

The activities of the CFI and LFI have been quite open and transparent. The information about trips to Israel is not secret. The individuals concerned with these groups are not secret.

The strained attempts to establish secrecy are necessary to promote the idea of conspiracy, which despite statements to the contrary, Oborne et al are determined to reveal. Without conspiracy, there is no programme.

The sub-text - that Zionists are buying off politicians - might be believable if Britain were pro-Israel. It is not. Or perhaps Jewish finance is preventing British policy and opinion on Israel from falling to its natural - very low - level.

In reading the Robin Shepherd article, it appears that a Tory 's failure in a speech to mention Israel's massacre of over 1000 Palestinians in the Gaza operation that occurred that year is evidence of bought silence. Of manipulation.

That episode is a perfect illustration of what Oborne, the Guardian, BBC, diplomats and you consider the natural view of Israel, the obvious, true view, untainted by Jewish money. Israel massacres Palestinians. Any attempt to to say otherwise must be the result of a Zionist conspiracy at its usual manipulations.

Would you feel reassured if the LFI and CFI "registered" that they were Friends of Israel? Would not that legitimize being Friendly to Israel? As happens in America?

Carol-Ann

I am disgusted a Oborne and Channel 4 are just left wing propogandists. Why is it always assumed there must be dark motives or malign influences if someone supports Israel? I support Israel as it's a democracy, there is nothing wrong with that.

Kirsty

This is just another way of smearing Israel and encouraging hatred and suspicion. There are many lobby groups for lots of country's and causes etc, but it's easy to single out and pick on Israel because there are many people in this country wanting to believe silly conspiracy theories. Oborne ought to be ashamed of himself.

C. Gee

John Edwards 11/16 at 4:26:

The point being made is that if there were a Jewish lobby doing its propaganda manipulations efficiently, Hague would not have condemned the bombing of UN headquarters, but perhaps "regretted" it as an unfortunate effect of war.

It is not so hard to keep up, is it?

Daniella

I hope the Conservative party is pro Israel because it would be the only party that is. The left in this country poses the biggest threat to Jews. Witness the constant outpouring of anti-semitism on the Guradian comment pages, BBC anti Israel bias and at left wing demonstrations and meetings. I want to vote for a party that is willing to stand beside Israel no matter what and is unafraid to speak up for her. Israel is a democracy that is surrounded very hostile forces wanting to 'wipe it off the face of the map'. Britain should be a friend of Israel now and forever and if the Tories are willing to advocate this in opposition and in Government, fantastic.

C. Gee

cuffleyburgers:

"But that doesn't mean they're always right, Ms Phillips."

Why this gratuitous finger-wag? Ms.Phillips has never suggested infallibility in Israeli politics.

Baron Pipin II

The best way to deal with the pseudo-liberal fruitcakes is to ignore their ranting. Rational arguments get wasted on them. Only time may, and more often than not does heal their boils of the cancerous moral equivalence.

George

John Edwards,

Presumably you support the Hamas using the UN HQ in Gaza as a military base? If they hadn't done so, it wouldn't have been shelled.

Snowman

David Lindsay @ 3.51:

a helpful suggestion for a simple experiment that, if you were to carry it out, would be by far more convincing than your evidence of the number of the MP’s trips to Israel. Get yourself to Gaza, stand on any corner street and shout ‘down with Hamas’. Then go to any city in Israel, stand on a street corner and shout ‘down with the Zionists’. Reversing the itinerary would certainly help if you were determined to complete the experiment.

This is one the reasons why every democrat in Britain and elsewhere should support Israel.

David Moore

So, the Tories are in bed with the Jewish lobby and are also allied with anti-semites in the EU?

Jez

Water off a ducks back.

The people who produced this will want a rection to satisfy their pleasure threshold because that's what certain parts of the media 'elite' seem to be put on this planet to do.

The Gateless Gate

Israel is the bully!?

Jewish Leadership Council - are they related to the Elders?

Who is funding Oborne, metaphorically that is, truth or the Muslim Brotherhood?

alan stoddart

Oborne is a lobby in his own right....very pro-Muslim and anti-Israeli and with access to influential media outlets in print and broadcast.
He refuses to accept that the BBC can do any wrong and believes that any criticism of their journalism is down to a powerful Jewish lobby.
See: http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/peter-oborne-james-jones/pro-israel-lobby-in-britain-full-text

Oborne's judgement is extremely poor in this matter and lacks balance. There are many lobbies all vying for political and media influence...the green lobby probably the most powerful and one that has vastly more consequences than any 'cabal of Jews' could muster. The Muslim one is far more powerful and effective than the Israeli, with much of that effectiveness coming from political fear in government of more bombs..... ‘One lesson well understood in both Stalin’s Russia and Nazi Germany was that propaganda is most effective when it is backed by terror.’
Please ignore last comment by me as technical cock-up...but check out: http://www.garethjones.org/

just Louise

Poor Alan Rusbridger! On the programme he looked so martyred and pained as he spoke to Oborne of accusations from a representative of The Lobby that his paper is "fomenting attacks on Jews". He sees many ambassadors from many countries, he told oborne, and never gets such complaints from them! (Well, Alan, that could be because your paper doesn't demonise those countries 24/7, and because those countries aren't - at least for now -facing an existential threat.)
As for the BBC being "bullied" by The Lobby, which was the theme of the programme in its final segment - shome mishtake, shurely!

Lesley Klaff

Watching the Dispatches programme on the "pro-Israel lobby" was like reading an extract from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. More than that, the programme was pathetic. Peter Oborne was scraping the barrel and came up with nothing.

Baron Pipin II

The Oborne’s bombshell: as a compilation of old bits and pieces – average, mostly old clips; as an eye opener to a Jewish conspiracy – not even on the scale; as an anti-Jewish propaganda – below average, too complex, lacking in focus and too much of flag waving across the screen; as a case for Israeli democracy – above average, Jewish contributors expressing different views; as a source of income for dear Peter – quite good one would imagine what with the trips here and there. Altogether a storm in a thimble for dwarf ants at best.

JOHN ROOSEVELT

I salute Peter Osborne! His program was a long overdue revelation!

For a long time I have had a sneaking suspicion that some Jews in the UK - and I'm not being anti semitic here - are pro Israel. It's insidious to imagine how this fact and their their singularly malign influence on British polity has gone undetected. Only journalistic courage second to none and and a rapacious search for the truth could be responsible for this.

These Jews actually have a lobby whose principal aim is to influence politicians to support their political views! Just when you may have thought: "I bet that's true!"..low and behold, it IS! Oi vey, you may indeed cry..if you're one of THEM!

And these Jews have a myriad of business interests. I knew it! And money from those interests is indeed donated (told you!) - not just to anyone..but to political parties!!!! The unique insidiousness of it!

What has our Democracy come to? Politicians not only influenced by donars and lobbyists but by bloody JEWISH ones!! And not just about anything, but about.."apartheid" Israel! I can hardly breath...my body is in an uncontrolled state of Paroxysm Intellectualis!

What confuses me a little is the assertion made on the program that not all Jews are pro Israel. Is one to infer that all Israelis are not Jews? No, maybe not...but this doesn't mean I am anti semitic even if I think the UK Jews who lobby on behalf of Israel are wrong....or conspiratoria..I mean, it doesn't mean I hate ALL Jews..except those Jews who support the pro Israel policy. But it has nothing to do with being Jewish..I mean, I know we are only talking about Jews, but I am not anti Jews who are not pro Israel...and noone else thinks unlike me and especially a journalist of such incisive intelligence and integrity as Osborne or the editor of The Guardian..Dear God, no! Jews are Jews, not Israelis. Israelis may be Jews but don't be confused, people!!! Despatches means to make you understand what is the differenccccce!

And, thank God, someone has had the courage to insist that it is unimaginable that calling the Jews..I mean Israelis/Zionists..arpartheid-like doesn't cause anyone to hate Jews and go out and bash them over the head. All sorts of other things cause that but not this..not this on TV prime time and on the net or in a "leading" daily newspaper! How could those Jews accuse me/them of that?!!

And the rank secrecy of it all..Jews not being forthcoming re their private business interests when they are donating profits from those business to our politicians. Has anyone ever heard of this kind of thing before in our green and pleasant land? Trust the Jews..I knew it!! They and they alone...a singular challenge to the heart of what WE - BRITISH - stand for!

Next week's Despatches: " Israel has a Secret Service"..oooohh, I can't wait. Wonder if any Jews will feature!! You guessed it..ONLY Jews!

Jane

So we had a whole third of the programme devoted to the BBC and Jeremy Bowen (oh, woe!), Jonathan Dimbleby (he forgot to mention he wrote a book supporting the Palestinians) and we waited... and waited... and waited and, no. No. Not at all.

No mention of The Balen Report that the BBC spent over a quarter of a million pounds suppressing from public view.

Oborne is unbelievable.

Must go. Am watching Paxman's Taqiyyanight and he introduced Inyat Bunglawala as supporting British values! Watch it on iplayer so you can do a double take.

Unbelievable.

And who funds all this? The 'Israel Lobby' - no Muggins the taxpayer for Channel 4 and Muggins the poll tax licence fee payer.

Lesley Klaff

All these comments are a breath of fresh air after watching that stupid Dispatches programme, but John Roosevelt's is just so good! His wit and sarcasm really puts Peter Osborne's "journalism" into perspective.

zkharya

While on the subject of Transparency, what about Daddy's Little Girl, Isabella?

David Lindsay

Like South-West Norfolk, after this evening's Dispatches Watford also needs, even more urgently than everywhere else, a candidate of any party or, far more probably, none who has an absolute commitment to the monarchy, the organic Constitution, national sovereignty, the Union, the Commonwealth, the countryside, grammar schools, traditional moral and social values, controlled importation and immigration, and a realistic foreign policy.

Who has a no less absolute commitment to the Welfare State (including farm subsidies), workers’ rights, consumer protection, strong communities, conservation (not environmentalism), fair taxation, full employment, proper local government, a powerful Parliament, and a base of real property from which every household can resist both over-mighty commercial interests and an over-mighty State.

Who, unlike Claire Ward, does not feel the need for a second home on expenses in order to represent a constituency a mere twenty minutes from Euston and very largely inhabited by London commuters.

And who, unlike Richard Harrington, sees neither national sovereignty, nor foreign policy realism, nor a strong Parliament, as compatible with the purchase of British politics by the Israeli Hard Right or by any other foreigner. What is Harrington going to do? Send round Gerald Ronson?

r camillo

i am increasingly suspicious of some articles in the spectator, that they are traducing the ideals of this hitherto splendid magazine.i'm aware of balanced reporting, but my previous reading of oborne confirms my opinion that the magazine is starting to lose its way...if obourne cant give balanced opinions he should not be published again in the spectator.

Frank P

I've just had wind of O'Bore's next project: revelations about a deeply entrenched and insidious England lobby trying to influence the parliament of Londonistan.

john Norman

We still haven't had the Balen Report nor the utterly poisonous Wahabi influence that forced the Govt to cancel any idea of an investigation into BAE corruption. It can only get worse. How many MPs and journalists are deep inside the pockets of the Arab subborners.

JOHN ROOSEVELT

@JOHN NORMAN: well said indeed John...

...but didn't you know that actually BAE has been lobbied by the Jews to ensure that the flow of the weapons supplied to Saudi are ultimately controlled by parliamentarians who are favourable to the policies of Israel?

....well, I think I read that in Guardian somewhere, actually...:))

Rhonda Valley

Well, if this constitutes the pro-Israel lobby then we haven't too much to be worried about!

maven

When I looked at the programme the following day it looked like a paper tiger. It's real success was as a sort of shock horror show which put fear into the hearts of the sensitive like me and a huge party for the haters of Israel. I particularly disliked at the beginning what appeared to be a repeat of the blood libel made up of footage of pools of blood on a Gaza street followed straight away by Jewish lobbyists eating meat.

maven

Israel is the most hopeless country on earth when it comes to getting her message across. How many have pleaded on bended knees; from David Horovitz of the Jerusalem Post down to humble souls like me to please, o please Govt of Israel, instigate an international newschannel broadcasting in English and Arabic and take on Pallywood, The BBC, CNN, Al Jazeera and PRESS TV Iran in getting Israel's and the diaspora's message across. But what would we know?

sam

It's outrageous..
At the end of the program he says I can tell you we were unable to find evidence of anything like a conspiracy. Well who the heck thought there was one? Only anti-semites suspect and are suspecting such a thing.. 'cos they hate jews. What next? the BBC report that the holocaust actually happened? I remember on the regular 5 channels ther was already one of these programs to investigate whether there was a jewish conspiracy.. where they interrogated and upset jewish staff at a neo-con center.
They should investigate the left wing jewish lobby group Jstreet. Funded by a Hamas supporter.. funded by Robert Malley and George soros.. and by arabs.

maven

Btw: The Programme is available in full on You Tube.

Leo deCandia

If British media weren't one-sided in favor of Israel, they would constantly remind their audience that Israel's three founders, Begin, Shamir and BenGurion were heads of terrorist organizations, and that Israel is a contradiction in terms since is bills itself as a democracy but one belonging to a subset of its citizens, the Jewish ones. It would be like saying the UK belongs to Christians.

Real democracies are a function of their demographics. The demographics are not supposed to be set in stone. If 100 million Chinese convert to Judaism, would they all have the right to move to Israel?

The other thing Israel doesn't get is that conquered territory comes with the people on it. If Israel wants the West bank it has to extend citizenship to all its legal residents, Jewish and non-Jewish. Self determination is not the right of people who share religion or philosophy to have representation or governance, but the right exclusively of people living in geographic contiguity to have a government. There is no right for Mormons around the world to have a Mormon state. Especially if such a state would involve the ethnic cleansing of people from villages, towns, cities, homes and farms. Human rights are above national rights. The right to an ethnic state ranks ways below the right of people to stay in the villages and cities they have been inhabiting for generations.

Adam B.

Leo deCandia, what a load of nonsense!

The UK does have a state religion - the Queen is head of the Church of England, and head of state. Get your facts right. As for much of the Arab Middle east, religion is enshrined in law, and minorities face dhimmitude and apartheid (try being a Bahai or Jew or Christian in the Islamic republic of Iran - or try Saudi Arabia - where a Jew is forbidden by law from setting foot. Howe about "moderate" Jordan - where citizenship is forbidden to Jews. Furthermore, you baseless charge of "ethnic cleansing" looks rather ridiculous when viewed in light of the fact that the Arab populations both inside Israel and in Judea, Samaria and Gaza continue to grow rapidly. A strange sort of ethnic cleansing. If you want to find real ethnic cleansing, look for the once large Jewish population of Iraq. A quarter of Baghdad was Jewish not so very long ago - now there is not one living Jew in the whole of Iraq. Isn't that ethnic cleansing? Please think before spouting slogans.