Muslims put the west to shame

Andy Gill

In their refusal to confront the Islamist Jihad, the British media and intelligensia are guilty of a craven betrayal of civilized values. History will judge them for it. Perfidious Albion indeed.

Huw Thornton

Melanie - you recently wrote that "....the Arabs have made it crystal clear that the real focus of their murderous hatred is Judaism itself. " However, Mohammed Sifaoui and the author of the Al-Watan article are presumably Arabs. You have aknowledged that true and constructive comments can come from people of whatever background, or national/religious identity. I congratulate you on your position, and hope that progress can be made in Palestine through dialogue between people of different backgrounds.

George Steiner

Madam you have found tow Muslims in aproximately one billion. That is approximately 0.0000002%. I may have missed a zero or two. I know you are not strong on numbers but do you think your two Muslims mater at all?

Joshua

A Kuwaiti newspaper [the daily Al-Watan] put the BBC and Guardian to shame the other day when it denounced the recent yeshiva murders. This is what it said: "The attack at the yeshiva was a barbaric murder of eight children who were engaged in religious study...This odious and inhuman terror attack exemplifies the extremist and inhuman path of the terror organizations Hamas and Hizbullah." -- http://tinyurl.com/2zo3tb

B.Williamson

The darling of the MCB, Mawdudi when expounding his model of a global Islamic State said similar. He admired both the Stalinist and Nazi method of totalitarian dictatorship The interesting and highly illuminating part is that he viewed this as a positive.

Joshua

Oh yes, that Kuwaiti newspaper also distinguished between Israeli military operations and the calculated acts of mass-murder by Hamas and Hizbullah: "there is no link between a murderous terrorist act and the inadvertent killing of civilians in response to the firing of rockets by Hamas." Again, that's something you're very unlikely to hear from journalists at the BBC and Guardian. And the following could have been written by Melanie Phillips herself: "the terror attack must prompt the free world to comprehend the magnitude of terrorism and its threats and to realize that a clear and unequivocal stance must be assumed against it. There can be no negotiations with terrorism that indiscriminately aims itself at students, women and babies without any consideration for the means and the targets."

Ian C

The worst aspect of western blindness is that when the we all wake up - i.e. when it feels so threatened that the spineless, comfortably off intelligentsia get the wake up call that shakes their stupour (9/11 etc. wasn't wnough apparently) - the backlash will be so vicious and uncontrollable that it will become too dangerous for ordinary Muslims to be anywhere but in their country of origin, whether they were born and raised elsewhere or not. That is what not facing up to the realities of islamist fascism now will cost. A backlash will occur that we do not believe ourselves capable of because we are currently so comfortable and it hasn't affected most of us yet although we've watched it on TV. It has happened before and it will happen again. Man is extremely brutal when faced with what he perceives as having been deceived by a people who have been welcomed among us and is capable of responding in ways we cannot currently imagine. There are a few voices like Melanie's who are standing in front of the onrushing train with a small light. But too many people who matter are in the buffet car enjoying themselves denying there is a problem.

Ganpat Ram

I am a tough critic of Islamic intolerance yet I have to say that the Muslims I have come across who DO defend tolerance and free speech are some of the finest human beings I know of. There is a lion-like courage about such Muslims that leave you humbled. I think these brave Muslims are a huge credit to what is good in that religion. In contrast, the cowardly non-Muslim who makes excuses for Isalmist intolerance and violence seems unutterably contemptible, the lowest of the low. People like

Ravi

Melanie, have you read the disgusting Fatwa issed by the European Fatwa Council in Dublin? If the Home Secretary doesn't take action then we know they are in the pocket of the Islamists. Contemporary Opinions on Killing Civilians In a fatwa issued by Sheikh Faysal Mawlawi, vice president of the European Council for Fatwa and Research (ECFR), concerning killing civilians in wars especially from Jews, he said, Originally, it is prohibited to kill civilians, women, and children, but certain cases are exempted from this: 1. When all individuals on the enemy side participate in war, as then the term "civilian" would not apply to them. 2. When civilians do things to help militants, as then what they do would be regarded as a "military action." 3. When warriors use civilians, women, and children as a shield and there is no way for Muslim warriors to reach those militants except by killing those civilians. 4. When the enemies kill Muslim civilians, for then their civilians may be treated the same. 5. When a civilian "accepts" usurping a (Muslim) land, he is considered an occupier, and is not a civilian any more. 6. When children themselves are not intended (or targeted) to be killed (deliberately) without doing anything wrong or committing any crime. It is well known that Israelis, men and women, indulge in war against Palestinians, so they are warriors. They are also usurpers of the (Palestinian) land, because the Jews in Palestine have emigrated from various countries, and they have no right in this land. In Islam, it is obligatory to liberate any Islamic land from occupation. It should also be known that jihad against the Jews is not because they are Jews, but because they are usurpers and warriors. Chilling!

JB

I find Kuwaiti outrage at Palestinian terrorism quite disingenuous. After all, the Palestinians are only doing what the entire Arab world has encouraged them to do since 1948. It was the cynical Arab ruling elite who insisted Palestinians remain in camps and maintain the struggle to destroy Israel, they have been nothing but cannon fodder for the rest of the Arab world. What really bothers Arab governments is the intrusion of Iran into the mix. Hamas and Hizzbollah are subsidiaries of the government of Iran.

London Calling

Good post Melanie, I agree that Mohammed Sifaoui has great courage and should be recommended as a speaker for the Muslim Council Of Britain, this would then inspire many more Muslim's like him to debate and mediate within their own communities and eventually the wider community to encourage cohesion. I agree also with the previous comment by Ganpat Ram, the majority of Muslims in Britain are an example to us all, but sadly we just don't integrate enough on all sides to find out what each of us can bring to the table and learn from. We may not be able to stop America going to war with Iran, but if we do have a clear understanding of the backlash this will cause as mentioned by the previous comment by Ian C, then yes we can prepare ourselves, we have to decide if we are going to be a part of the problem or its solution. The computer may say 'NO',but I say 'YES', plus I don't want to become an Ex-Pat living in Spain,(that was a joke by the way). With regards to our many problems here in Britain,it is sensible debate that leads the way and brings about change, we just need sensible people to listen.

George

"Do you think your two Muslims mater at all?" Yes, George Steiner.

The best hope we have is that Islam reforms itself, that's why these people matter.

We might have more people willing to speak so frankly in Britain if it weren't for the Rushdie debacle.

If you were born a Muslim in Britain and felt that you wanted to be an apostate or to take your religion to task (in the way that many other people take their faiths to task) the British government ripped the carpet from under your feet with the surrender over the Rushdie affair.

I know Muslims who are either apostates or at the least pretty fed up with some of the excuses made for Islamists yet none of them would ever wish to express such thoughts in print or any other platform because of fear over the reaction they'd get from the hotheads.

If the British government couldn't stop the threat to Rushdie turning into a mad mob, what hope does anyone else have?

If there is any way of extinguishing the excesses of Islamism it is going to come from Muslim intellectuals. One person's articulacy and bravery in speaking out can sometimes help to change things for the better. How appalling we won't see anything similar in Britain any time soon.

It isn't the freedom of individual Islamic voices that matters to the British government, they'd rather just doff their surrender monkey caps to groups like Hizb ut Tahrir, the Global Islamic Political Party working for the reestablishment of a Caliphate. That's who's setting the agenda in Britain.

Michael B

"On this point, the Islamists may go even further in their doctrine than the Nazis did, considering that the end of the world could only occur when there are no Jews left on earth." Sifaoui - Yep, and too many in the west, including far too many in high places, are simply not taking that to heart with the full measure of gravity they need to. At base, within its more fundamental and foundational regions, it's an ideological war that is being waged, one that is fully warranted. A too uncritical acceptance of aspects of the regnant multi-culti ethos is responsible for an appreciable degree of this, as well a certain intellectual/moral lethargy and atrophy that reposes in the West's social and economic abundance, as if it's all some inherited Right, absent more thoughtful and more probative responsibilities, not to mention gratitude toward one's forebears (v. decalogue, #5). Instead, a year-zero sensibility has, consciously and unconsciously and effectively supplanted all such "moralizings" and other trifles. A generation comes, a generation goes ...

eh-oop

Hope it's not too bad form to gain some momentum from your excellent post, Ganpat Ram. ....Wafa Sultan and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, as well as Mohammed Sifaoui, have that courage and risk their lives. We can also wish luck to Ed Hussain and boggle at the role that the Turkish government claims to be taking on, but I'm sceptical as to their ability to make a difference - Islam's traditional excesses have outlets to-day which means that these practices are not capable of being disregarded or dismissed as irrelevant by their opponents in the struggle. Even assuming that the values of a sizeable proportion of Muslims living in the west have become as Judeo-Christian in character as those of most of us, those living elsewhere will always act as a balance, and the chasm between right and wrong and the values of life and the values of death will not be bridged. And that's why Huw Thornton's parting shot is so wide of the mark. Whether it's Hamas or Fatah, Palestinian "governments" of whatever hue indoctrinate their children, using talking mouse and tiger characters and whatever on TV and textbooks in school, to hate the Jews and view Israel as a target for destruction. It proves that the Palestinian leadership offers no genuine partner for peace. It is also a simple illustration of the truth of Golda Meir's statement that there will be peace only when the Palestinians actually love their children more than they hate us (the Jews).

PHIL

george s-that was not worthy of you -of course it is important even crucial -Jewish people have always said *if you save one life you have saved the world * if these Muslims have the courage to speak out we must both support and applaud them -it is a start that eventually may bring peace -I SALUTE THEM

D Gray

Jew hatred is here and has been part of media think for over 15 years.In the past the comments were always disguised insults with a heavy bias towards the 'palistinian question'.Today we have an all out hate fest with the BBC broadcasting lie after lie and not retracting anything,uncering in its ignorance that they dont have to answer to anyone.This will continue until someone in government makes a public declaration about the BBC liers and the need for the board of governers to sack any BBC staff who are caught lying or braodcasting a biased report. But then I saw a cute little pink piggy fly over my house with a smile on its face and a 'I love the BBC ' sticker on its ass.

Herbert Thornton

Ian C writes something we should all ponder - that he foresees a backlash coming and that it will be vicious and uncontrollable. To that I would add that the longer it takes for it to happen, the more unspeakably horrendous it will be.

How unspeakably horrendous? Will it be a time of extermination camps on a scale to rival those of the 20th century, plus a nuclear holocaust aimed at even more extermination? A time when Liberals, if there still are any, will wring their hands and long for the moderate days of the BNP who wanted only to persuade the Muslims to go back where they belonged?

I very much fear so.

Ann

"and hope that progress can be made in Palestine" --- err, where is that mythical place?

Ann

JB: "After all, the Palestinians are only doing what the entire Arab world has encouraged them to do since 1948": THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 'PALESTINIANS'. They are ARABS. --- Joshua: quite so. Mind you, finding craven, mendacious antisemitic garbage in those two cesspits, Al Beeb and Al Guardian, is like shooting fish in a barrel.