The candidate, his pastor and Hamas

Dee Ranged

The American public will shortly wake up to the wolf in sheeps clothing in their midst. Just as he cannot abandon his racist mother, so too, he cannot abandon his racist mentor. Soon we will witness further dirty tricks from the Clinton camp as they desperately grasp for power. Meanwhile, Mcain trots the globe shaking hands with international leaders which adds to his gravitas.

g

"For away from the party's fawning, drooling, Dianafied cheerleaders in the media and elsewhere, middle America will be appalled." That's assuming, of course, that they'll ever hear about it. Which they won't.

Rob

Sen. Barak Obama is not a rabid fascist or racist like Rev. Wright. He is a slick political opportunist who knows how to harness such people. He sees the Presidency as nothing more than a promotion to more power, as does Hillary Clinton. What is frightening is how easily liberals in the US and elsewhere can be hoodwinked by a man with loathsome and vapid supporters and a razor thin pubic record.

d1carter

Middle America is appalled at the MSM that is trying to guide the USA toward a President of their choice.

YA

Quite weak arguments from Melanie, not standing "guilt by association" fallacy. All that is easily refuted just by saying "my country right or wrong"; actually Obama already did it in his speech. It would be another story if he really did or asserted something nasty. But he didn't. Yes he looks less reliable than McCain, becasue of his ..mm.. non-uniform background; however, he didn't choose parents, childhood and large chunk of his destiny. Sorry Melanie, this time you fought a straw man.

Verity

I think Middle America has already got the message, but what intrigues is, how did this man get so far, except for Caucasian guilt? (And they are rightfully regretful for their history, although it was generations ago that these crimes were perpetrated.) Obama, who is now a dead issue, was clearly, clearly inadequate. He was clearly, egotistical/Messianic to think that, after a scant two years as a national senator, he had the international expertise and the knowledge of DC and how the Congress works, to be a viable candidate. It's bonkers. American whites wanted to be sporting and give him a go. He is handsome, elegant, he doesn't frighten the horses ... This is an intriguing episode and will be dissected and written about - I would love to see a book by Thomas Sowell on this. Meanwhile, the wheels are well and truly off Obama's bandwagon. I said from Day One that his past was much too exciting. A madrassah in Indonesia (which they have since tried to deny, but a madrassah is a Wahabbi religious institute of learning), an Indonesian half-sister, a white grandmother who raised him, a deceased Kenyan father, time spent in Hawaii ... No one was sure where he was coming from; they just knew they wanted a handsome 50% black person to be next up to bat. But no matter how they spin it, he has no place in the black history of America. His family wasn't kidnapped by his fellows, traded by Arab slavers and taken across the Atlantic in the hold, in chains, to be auctioned off at public auctions and wives and children separated. In other words, American voters, who almost universally acknowledge and sorrow for the sins of slavery, chose someone with no background in their country. And now we have this Rev Wright, who Obama apparently failed to persuade of his Messianic message over a 20-year membership in that "church" which supports Black Muslim leader Louis Farrakhan, and a highly-achieving wife who announced that she had never been comfortable in America, where she had been awarded not one, but two scholarships to Ivy Leagues. From DAY ONE, I thought he may be a Manchurian candidate. But now I think he's aware of the programme - the official infiltration of islam into the most powerful country on earth. Keith Ellison has already taken his "oath", which doesn't mean diddley, on a koran.

field

Well, ever since I first heard about this Church he's a member of I said it would be fatal to his campaign - either for the Democratic nomination or the Presidency, depending on when exactly it reached prominence in the media. I hope I'm not wrong. My suspicion as well is that a man who consorts with a cleric like this must have committed some other political indiscretions which will come to light in due course. I think also we haven't got to the bottom of the Church's links with Nation of Islam.

Philip Horowitz

Reading your blog too quickly, I assumed that the parts of the Hamas Constitution you quote were in the article you mention. They are not. It is a much smoother, more anodyne - and mendacious piece. To those with no background knowledge, it will seem rather unobjectionable, certainly well within the usual left-wing view of Israel as the violent party and the one always in the wrong. People can easily point out what Hamas both says and does but I wonder how productive this will be. Wrights views on the US were clearly expressed and obviously objectionable to many. His support for the views expressed in the article will not be seen as such a big issue.

Mike

Barack Obama's speech was about race relations on which he can't be faulted. It is so easy to pick holes and find fault in any speech, and even easier to twist what has been said (or not said) to fit one's own view of the world. Frankly, Melanie, I believe that Barack Obama's appeal derived from his straight forward, honest and upright approach is difficult for you and your interests to deal with. America, and the world, is desperate for change. We've had enough of the mendacity of the Bush administration, and Barack Obama, in my view, is the only candidate who will be able to restore America's standing in the world, starting with the Middle East and its multitudes of Muslim opinon.

GNO

Obama never sought to renounce or distance himself from the views of this facist. Why? Did he never think that the white Americans that the Rev calls are all members of the KKK would never elect a black man to high office, much less consider him to be presidential candidate? So his loyalty to the bigot would never be up for questioning? After all, wasn't his real constituency the repressed blacks and never the racist whites? His bread was buttered on the Rev's side, wasn't it?

Only now does he find that the whites are not all racists. Only now, after his unexpected victories in the primaries does he think that maybe, just maybe the Rev was only advertising all that was bad and never considered any that was right and good in Americans. Only now does his wife, after listing to the bile spewed at her for over 20 years, feels American for the first time in her life.

Consider this, what if Obama had really lost many of the primaries that he was expected to loose, what if he was blown at the first hurdle, what if he had never reached this far? Would he have gone back to the "Church" of hate and continued listing to the Rev's rant against the white Americans and the Jews, only this time maybe confirming the Rev's prejudice seeing that it was the whites and the Jews who never gave him a chance.

What is worrisome here is not the exposure of the black man's prejudice and his anti-Semitism, the racism that we all knew existed, but never thought it right to question. No, what is really distressing is the white American's continued support of a man who, for all we know, holds reprehensible views about them and has who, never in the past 20 years, thought it right to walk out on a man who cheered at the cry of damnation of their country, but instead saw him as his mentor!

Commondog

I wonder my fellow philes and phobes if we can get through this one avoiding the following:
lengthy and self-indulgent sermons;
playground spats;
use of the word 'Gramscian'?

Geoff Miller

Its rather like saying that Adolf Hitler is a family friend whilst at the same time "denouncing" his policies. Doesn't stand scrutiny really does it? As the old poem goes - "You can tell a man who boozes by the company he chooses". Obama is exposed as a devious, racist, snake oil salesman. Not good material to be leading the Free World. America is waking up.

Bob Latchford

you're really flogging a dead horse here Mel. Anyone with half a brain and the ability to see through your renowned paranoia and rabble rousing will see this as desperate attempt by a right wing zionist to stick the boot into Mr Obama....as time has gone on, and support for Obama has grown worldwide, your articles have become more inflammotary and more desperate to slander Obama, sinking to a new low today linking him with Hamas. What next Mel? Obama is the secret offspring of Hassan Nasrallah? Sadly for you, and I think you know this deep inside, rather than being 'appalled' Middle America will treat a story like this with the contempt it deserves. The only people wringing their hands and expressing their faux-shock in America, will be the very people already trying to derail the Obama bandwagon

Dee Ranged

Bob Latchford: What cheek! It is you who is becoming more inflammotary and more desperate. Obama is finished!

ed lancey

@Mike, So you want Obama elected so he can grovel to muslims. I hope you don't have a vote. @Bob Latchford Obama is finished. No-one is forcing you to read this.

Jack Thursby

Color, race, religion AND Gramsci??? Dream on Commondog, Dream on.

ajmalkov

Mike, speaking for middle Americans, we don't give a sod for the opinion of the Arab street or the spoiled socialist boulevardiers on the Champs Elysee when it comes to picking our president, thank you very much. We want to elect a person with integrity, not someone who will say anything to get elected (Hillary Clinton) or who cares more about public opinion in London and Nairobi than he does about voters in Omaha (Obama). While Hillary and Obama fight furiously to rewrite history as fast as their handlers can scribble it for them, McCain is traveling the globe meeting with the elected leaders of the free world to help plot our country's course for the next four years. For a member of the great unwashed of the American heartland whom you so clearly disdain, this whole process has been quite delicious.

Rob

Trinity is not just a church but a political club with a racist and fascist outlook. The possible next President is very closely associated with this church for over 20 years personally and politically. Obama says all the right things but evidence shows that he is surrounded by people who dislike if not hate the USA and offer understanding to our devote enemies and attack our allies. I think even Europeans will confess that John McCain is the only qualified candidate for the office in dangerous times like these. As an American, it is to my chagrin that out of 300 million people, it has come down to these three.

Frank Pulley

Common Cur: perhaps we could have the benefit of your concise, objective, sagacious and completely non-partisan analysis of the Obama phenomenon? So far we have only had the benefit of your mildly amusing snide side. Verity: I loved your 'self-indulgent sermon' - 'tis replete with pith and perspicacity! Just the ticket for Good Friday morning. In fact, if you were within reach I'd arise from the bed I'm blocking and (attempt to) hump your leg. Keep up the pressure, gal! The hypertensive reactions of the trolls are quite entertaining, too.

steve

Yes, John McCain certainly is making a strong impression on his world tour. Especially memorable was when he repeatedly said that Iran was training al-Qaeda members and then sending them back in Iraq. He had to correct this statement after being reminded by Joe Lieberman that it wasn't true. It is a long time until the election in November. McCain is going to have to deal with an unpopular war in Iraq, an unpopular Bush admin and an increasingly dodgy American economy. These are all more significant issues (although you'd never know it from Fox or Melanie Phillips) to voters than what one's pastor has to say.

Ian C

For those of you who doubt Melanie's analysis and conclusions here, surely a man running for president cannot be caught with his hands in the political cookie jar? Or to spell it out, if he wants the most powerful job in the world he has to be in tune and time with the values of the majority of the elctorate. That majority, by a very long way, is free and white and has values that are diametrically opposite to his long-term friend, mentor and associate. He has knowingly been consorting with a black supremacist who evidentially supports at least one terorist organisation that is blackballed by the free world. If he did not know about these views he is negligent as an aspirant for the top office and thus unelectable. If he did, he disqualifies himself. He cannot win. It is that simple.

MK

Obama's radicalism doesn't just relate to Wright. Here are the anti-American ramblings of another radical Black theologian he has embraced: "God didn't call America to engage in a senseless, unjust war. . . . And we are criminals in that war. We've committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world, and I'm going to continue to say it. And we won't stop it because of our pride and our arrogance as a nation. But God has a way of even putting nations in their place...[God will say:] And if you don't stop your reckless course, I'll rise up and break the backbone of your power." That person was Martin Luther King, Jr. Please Melanie continue to tell the world about such ramblings and Obama's complicity in them.

J. Isaacs

Frank Pulley - Unfortunately the BBC's head of light entertainment is unlikely to give you or the other commentators on this thread a job; too much leg-humping, bed wetting and common dogging. However, Pastor Wright could well be given his own show.

Ann

What utter nonsense you do talk, YA. I'd love to know what you'd say about a candidate with close links to the KKK: would you also scream and complain about nasty 'guilt by association' then? --- MK: yes, those ramblings by King about war crimes were ignorant racist nonsense also. Perhaps he'd never heard about Nazi Germany, Japan, the USSR, Red China, ... --- Latchford: I am afraid your initial comedy value has long since evaporated. Your rants about Zionist this and Zionist that have exposed your own ugly agenda to anyone with 2 brain cells. And I am afraid you know zilch about middle America. I do, and all the people I speak to treat these revelations with contempt -for Obama-. Mike's agenda ("you and your interests") is also pretty transparent and pretty ugly. Obama is 'honest'? LOL. He's more twisted than a corkscrew, trying to disown his close family and his ultra-fascist mentor for 20 years - in fact, the phrase 'he'd sell his own grandmother' has never been more apt.

Verity

Frank Pulley - Thanks for the first lol of the day! Mike writes: "We've had enough of the mendacity of the Bush administration, and Barack Obama ... is the only candidate who will be able to restore America's standing...". In place of what he terms Mr Bush's "mendacity", he seeks the candour of Barak Obama. My second lol of the morning.

Greg Maina

While the talking heads of the media coporations were trying to justify their existense after Obama gave his speech on race, I was left with a feeling that US is a fundamentally sick nation that will continue to decline faster than a hooker after reaching forty. Obama gave words to feelings that all Americans have and asked us to evaluate why we feel the way we feel. He discussed his past experience from both a black and a white and what they have done to shape who he is. This is exactly what America needed to hear and deal with if it has to rise again to World Leadership or refuse to act and be relagated to the doldrums of history. Hearing Obama speak, I am more convinced that the World needs Obama. USA may not need him as its citzens are caught up with political, racial, financial and gender conflicts; but the world does. He embodies the good qualities that America used to reflect and which have been solely missed. Obama gives the world hope of what could be if we only believe. Hillary Clinton and John McCain represent a past that has contributed to the decline of the US as a Nation and brought despare to the world. To elect any of this two to presidency is to bury a hope of a future where unity would bring the spirit of what is to be an American, a World Citizen, a responsible member of the United Nations. Obama lead us forward.....Ignore the talking heads.

Edward the Thirst

If, as Mousa abu Marzook seems to imply, Jews are and have been since the French Revolution, in control of some kind of behind the scenes steering wheel, by which the labours and blood of the world's worst conflicts, have been cynically fashioned to suit 'Zionist interests'; then looking at how the cards are stacked right now, how come they made such a bairn's arse of things?

Brian O'Connor

Verity wrote: "I think Middle America has already got the message, but what intrigues is, how did this man get so far, except for Caucasian guilt?"

I don't know, but I suspect the MSM saw in Obama what they wanted to see, not what was actually there. I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong, but this seems to be a chronic weakness of our press. In this case, their lack of diligence enabled the Democratic Party to walk off the precipice — at least IMO.

I agree with those who think Obama's crashing and burning. Here's an article by Jake Tapper (ABC News) entitled Keystone Democrats Set to Defect. http://tinyurl.com/yw6ufr

Key paragraph:

""In a sign of just how divisive and ugly the Democratic fight has gotten, only 53% of Clinton voters say they'll vote for Obama should he become the nominee. Nineteen percent say they'll go for Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and 13% say they won't vote. Sixty percent of Obama voters say they'll go for Clinton should she win the nomination, with 20% opting for McCain, and three percent saying they won't vote.""

via Instapundit.

Verity

Greg Maina writes: "I am more convinced that the World needs Obama." A scant decade ago, many voters were convinced that the world needed Obama's template, Tony Blair. He also writes admiringly of: "a World Citizen, a responsible member of the United Nations." Not too many of the One-Worlder community read Melanie Phillips's blog and fans of the United Nations are pretty thin on the ground in these parts. No sale.

Mike

So all you Melanie supporters and her Zionist agenda don't want any change. You appear to want more of the same ie a knee-jerk MacCain surrounded with the same or similar very ugly minded people like Cheney, Rumsfield, Wurmser, Perle, Bolton and others - all neo-cons, and all 'losers'. The primary reason why Israel still hasn't achieved Peace in the Middle East is because of the arrogant policies of these people. So Ann now you know the 'interests' to which I referred earlier. Middle America is sick of it all, its had enough and so has most people on this planet. There has to be another way, and it isn't that proposed by Melanie and her misguided followers. I've said it before, and I'll say it again now, and will go on saying this - that Zionism is the real enemy of the Jews.

Kennybhoy

Hello There, I must admit that Obama had me worried for a wee while there. On a recent trip stateside I was particularly dismayed by the generally positive impact that he was having among family, friends and acquaintances of a liberal Republican persuasion. As previously observed by various posters hereabouts, he seemed to be a blank canvas onto which differing types of voters could project their hopes and desires. A potent electoral ability indeed. However, his refusal to properly distance himself from his pastor has, I am glad to say, effectively cut him off from such potential electoral support, not to mention that of those blue collar Democrats who always going to be a problem for him. My only remaining worry, should he win the Democratic nomination, is his ability to get out the younger, more radical and "idealistic" Dems come November. To my mind Senator McCain now has the beating of either one of the Dem candidates.. Cheers!

Commondog

Frank Pulley. 'fraid I have to disappoint on the Obama front mate, as I simply don't know enough about the bloke. All's I would say on him is that anyone who goes out on a stag night and decides to thin out at the first sight of the stripper?.... Lightweight.
On the sermon thing: come on, it's just clogging things up.

Jack Thursby, you underestimate the creative urge.

Rufus Ruffcut

Frank Pulley: "Common Cur: perhaps we could have the benefit of your concise, objective, sagacious and completely non-partisan analysis of the Obama phenomenon?" This one from Patrick J. Buchanan is concise and sagacious. http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=25634#continueA

Rufus Ruffcut

Frank Pulley: "Common Cur: perhaps we could have the benefit of your concise, objective, sagacious and completely non-partisan analysis of the Obama phenomenon?" This one from Patrick J. Buchanan is concise and sagacious. http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=25634#continueA

George Steiner

I think the pastoral problems of Obambi have only started. It is curious that Wright is a former black Muslim who found Cristianity. But instead of being sentenced to death as an apostate, he preaches as an apostate for over 20 years. It is curious that much of his preaching is indistinguishable from mainstream Islam, anti-American and anti-Jewish vitriol. He also retains a chummy relationship with Farakhan who should have ordered his execution as an apostate. It is not so curious if Wright is practicing 'al-Taqiyya'. 'Al-Taqiyya' allows a Muslim not to have to put his money where his mouth is. That is to say, if in his soul he is a good Muslim with his mouth he can be anything else. Then there is the curious visit to Gadafy together with Farakhan. Of all places they went to Libya. I say that they went for a contribution, and they got one.

Ellien

Edward the Thirst:The Hamas charter is based on the forgery "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", first published in the 1890's and heavily quoted by Hitler in Mein Kampf. It claims to be the minutes of one of the first Zionist Congress in Basel and spreads the lie that the Jews conspire to dominate the world. This book is widely distributed throughout the world, enjoys great popularity in Arab and other Muslim countries, TV soaps are based on it, and the ideology of the Palestinians is driven by it. It is a grand conspiracy against the Jews, motivated by that well known and ancient hatred:anti-semitism.

Mike

From to-days 'DT' (Easter Saturday 2008). An antidote to the ranting of Melanie and her tabloid so-called journalism. Visit: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/03/22/do2203.xml

Mike

Ellien: Drivel. The Palestians are not 'driven' by some Hitler rant, but are reacting as any dispossessed peoples would, to the theft and sordid and brutal occupation of their ancient lands. The sympathy of the world is with them, as it used to be for the Jewish people who died at the hands of a tyrant. This sympathy and understanding has long since evaporated due to the malignant policies of the hard-line Zionist regime in Israel.

Ian C

Yes Mike, because it's in the Telegraph it must be right. Except the author is a Guardianista away from her usual base.

Laura

Mike, you could have warned me that piece was by Lionel Schriver. I nearly chucked up on my keyboard.

Frank Pulley

Mike If you are 'mike': first commenter in the comments section after the Telegraph piece, your last sentence - "...And if u r foolish enough not to recognize his potential then please give him over to the third world because we need honest visionaries like him." may be more prescient than you realise. Should he become President, it is likely that America would rapidly degenerate into the Third World Country that England has now become, and he won't have to be 'given over', judging by the tentative and flakey raft of foreign policies he has so far espoused. He could precipiate the implosion of Western civilisation. Being partially black should be irrelevant, but by keeping the company and affiliations that have been revealed, he has made it relevant, and thereby embraced racist politics. He could do that successfuly over here, but I doubt the majority of the American electorate - black, white or hybrid, will buy it in November, even if he wins the Democratic ticket, which now looks probable rather than just possible.

Ann

"the spirit of what is to be an American, a World Citizen, a responsible member of the United Nations" - LOL. The UN??? That corrupt club consisting mostly of the delegates of Fascist states? Where a mega-Fascist state like China sits in the Security Council? The UN is the one that's like a hooker past 60.

Ann

More screeching, ignorant antisemitic drivel from Mike. Ancient Palestinian lands, indeed ... Obviously, you buy the brain-dead rants emanating from the poison pen of such toxic amoebas as Fisk. That is the homeland of the Jews. If you don't know that, get a Ladybird history book. The Arabs are the ones who attacked Israel in 1967, and it defended itself. If you don't know that, get a Ladybird history book. And if you choose to deny the Jews their right to their own homeland, we know what you are.

Robert

Mike: "Reacting as any dispossessed peoples would"? Yeah, right: it's entirely understandable to resort to suicide bombing, mass-murder of civilians, neo-fascist pseudo-religious psycho-babble and straightforward racism. So THAT'S why the Palestinians are so simpatico...

Mike

Anne: You really are a rather silly lady carrying rather a lot of venom I would have thought. Firstly, Israel has the right to exist. Fact. Secondly read this: 'Criticism of Israel is not antisemitism. Even denial of Israel's right to exist - obscene though that is - is anti-Zionism, not antisemitism, despite the fact that the route from the one to the other is slippery and steep. We do not serve the fight against prejudice by blurring these distinctions.' Chief Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks. Thirdly: visit http://www.ijv.org.uk/ where you will find the views I support. Robert: Are you sure you're comment doesn't quite accurately describe Israel? It sounds awfully familiar.

phil

Mike has had a lot to say recently including Zionism is the enemy of the Jews -how about telling us your solution to the problem and where the Jews of Israel should go next ?.I am assuming you believe they should not defend their country of course ,a country brought to life by a free vote of the UN -I am mystified by a man with obvious intelligence but unlike Ann do not wish to deal in venom -just calmly please tell us all what is your plan .

phil

Mike in case you are willing to give me an answer to my question .I should tell you I am aware of IJV and its good intentions but I am still not aware of what you all intend to do to deal with hamas and hesbollah who actually run the show -what we need is a sound and believable plan ,not just good intentions but no substance -you surely must realise that the peole who write here with such passion virtually all want the same thing PEACE

Mike

Phil: The deal has already been cut! It just needs the political will to implement it. However, since both sides are presently so politically weak it won't happen as soon as one would wish. Meanwhile, I'm hopeful a complete change of Administration in the White House will help. Sorry to disappoint you Phil, but you know as well as I do what has to be done. There's no alternative.

Ann

Calling me 'silly', which is nonsense, does not disprove the fact that the views I called antisemitic are just that, antisemitic. I don't care what Sacks says, one way or t'other: I happen to think for myself. Denying Israel's right to exist (and it does not need your patronising approval in order to exist) is antisemitic, unless you deny the French their right to a national homeland also, ditto the Norwegians, and the Chinese, and every other nation on earth. Saying that the Jewish nation does not have a right to its homeland while the German and the Greek and the Japanese nations do, is antisemitic by definition.

Ann

Phil, I say it like I see it when I see antisemitic lies being peddled here. That's not venom, it's called telling the truth. People have been far too nice for far too long where antisemitism is concerned, and see where it has got us. Unlike Mike and his ilk, who use Zionism as a swear word, I assume you do know that Zionism is simply the name of the political movement that affirms the right of the Jews to have their own free country in their ancient homeland. I don't believe you should pander to the antisemitic mindset by apologising for this fact - and I do mean this statement in a friendly way.

Mike

Phil: I've already answered you, but it would seem my response either ended up in cyber-space or for some reason the Moderator(s) deleted it. If this reaches the thread then I'll frame my reply again.

Darren

Hamas lists the Lions Club as a destructive spying organization? We better be careful next time we use the playground they built!

Mike

Phil: It would now seem that I did answer you. I don't know what to say to Ann. It wasn't meant to be 'patronising' when reiterating that Israel's existence isn't a problem for me and shouldn't be for anyone else. I would have thought that wouldn't create a problem for her. But it seems that it has. It's upto her whether or not to follow the guidance of the Chief Rabbi, but I don't understand her problem with anyone criticising the policies of the Government of Israel or any other Government for that matter. I positively hate Mugabe and the policies of his Government in Zimbabwe but that doesn't make me a racist because it's a black nation of Africa. However, there's one thing you should know Phil, and which probably puts me at a disadvantage when discussing the Middle East objectively. It just happens that for 7 years or so of my corporate career I lived in Beirut & Tehran and visited all the countries of the Region on many occasions. Unfortunately I was unable to visit Israel because of the Arab boycott. Apart from US and British colleagues, everyone else on the payroll,except those in our Tehran and Istanbul offices, were Arab with several Palestinans in senior positions. Hopefully I may be forgiven for seeing more clearly, perhaps, the Arab perspective and especially that of the dispossessed.

phil

Well, both to Ann and Mike I am off to enjoy an Easter lunch with real Christians who share love and moderation with all.so first to ANN I know you are a defender of Jewish thought and I applaud that ,but in my humble opinion you lose the respect of others with the invective with which you so often write ,people do not respond well to being backed up against a wall, try another way and we will appreciate your education and intelligence a lot better,Mike does not to me antisemitic ,and you will have noticed I DONT OFTEN AGREE WITH HIM. he is nevertheless entitled to submit his political views(which I think seeks peace for both sides )without accusations of antisemitism -in my opinion he is just wrong in his conclusions .SO Mike ,i still dont have your solution ,perhaps the moderator did pull it -I just do not believe the IJV are operating in the real world -they are operating in the world that I wish was there ,I would love it, if i can borrow a phrase from Kevin Keegan , but truly I think the way of our friend Bob is the one that prevails at this time -sometimes a pleasant word and a smile works wonders rather than the agression and insults that emenate from that scource -I hope you all enjoy Easter and I send my best wishes to all those who write with hope and compassion

Roy E

It's become very clear that Obama places a much higher value on becoming president than on being forthcoming and honest. He was forced to give his recent speech. Damage control was the primary motivation behind the wordcraft. Obama is a lawyer. You must parse his words with that foremost in your mind. In doing so you will come to admire Obama's rhetorical talent, but soon recognize and be repulsed by his inner weasel. Judge Obama by what he's done - not what he says. You'll soon see he's playing a con game. Notice how he dances around endorsement from nefarious groups like the Black Panthers and Louis Farrakhan's Nation of Islam. Yes, you can judge man by the company he keeps.

phil

Mike I wrote prior to yours being posted so I was very interested to hear your history in Beirut and Tehran -I have as I have said before very dear friends from Beirut ,their opinion is that the beautiful Lebanon has been hijacked by hesbollah and syria and that a wonderful country has been ruined by evil forces -they would have wanted peace with Israel as they de facto had for many years until Yasser decided otherwise - As for iran I know nothing -although their actions seem to speak for themselves -I have a sneaking feeling that given free thought their people would act very differently.For anyone who would want to believe it I too have great sympathy for those you refer to as the *dispossessed* it is their actions I do not agree with -I am sure you will have noted many times that i seek justice and peace for both sides of this terrible struggle we are all Gods children but i fear that too many think that their God is superior to mine .Perhaps if you went to visit Israel you would find the people on the whole think similarly to me -sadly I dont have the chance to visit with the Arabs ..and I had never seen Jerusalem (whole of)prior to 67-you will of course know it is open to all people now . I hope we better understand one another,we have written enough I think regards phil

Mike

Thanks Phil. Hope you enjoyed your lunch. May your God go with you. Best Wishes, Mike

Stephen

Ah, poor old Lebanon. For those who want to know more on that country's plight at the hands of the Islamists, do check out a book by Brigitte Gabriel, someone who saw the place ripped to pieces by them: 'Because They Hate: A Survivor of Islamic Terror Warns America'. Since some people seem keen on Mr Obama's grovelling to the 'opinion on the Arab street' (which actually means the ghastly leaders who oppress their own people), here's another book by a lady who delivers a few home truths from that street, not the sort you'll be hearing from Jeremy Bowen and Co of course: 'Now They Call Me Infidel' by Nonie Darwish. Although I find it extraordinary the way in which the British mainstream media simply ignore people like this and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, I comfort myself by knowing that this is as bad as it gets. Britain is the most appeasing of all the Western nations. The only difference that I can see between us and others is that ours is the only country to have a state-funded broadcaster that has carte blanche to pump out whatever anti-Western, anti-American propaganda it feels like. Elsewhere, truth and reason are fighting back.

Edward the Thirst

I just wonder about that word 'disposessed'. Does it have an expiry date? For surely those who were disposessed of the land of Israel, in the first place, were the Jews? Of Judea fame?
Then when they returned to that land in numbers they were merely reposessing that which was theirs?
So who qualifies as the 'disposessed'?

Nick Kaplan

Mike, you really do speak utter nonsense. I read your telegraph article, it would be a laughable joke were it not so worrying that this journalist, you and many more people have been convinced, purely by Obama’s rhetoric, into ignore his actions, which say far more of his true character. Obama has associated himself with a Black-supremacist, anti-Semitic, America hater for the last 20 years, and yet claims to want to lead the country his mentor so hates. This should be worrying, and certainly worthy of consideration, but instead you dismiss it because Obama made an impressive speech. The fact that he can vacuously chant “Yes we can” “Hope” and “Change” in place of any policy, and win support purely because he can speak well, is reminiscent of the idiocy and madness that led millions to vote for Hitler purely because of his oratory skills. When will people such as yourself (left-wingers) learn from the lessons of history that, to vote into power someone who has a populist message of something as banal as “Hope” yet has zero on the policy front and who is known to associate himself with dangerous racist nutters is, quite simply, simply madness.

Michael B

As others have noted, Obama is purportedly the candidate of "change," yet he hasn't been able to effect change, at least not so of note, relative to his own pastor and friend of twenty years. Me thinks something is askew, and it isn't with that quarter among the public who is questioning Obama, Wright, their twenty year relationship, etc. The public is asking questions and too few of those questions are being met with answers that are verifiable, substantial, coherent and cogent. Instead, those questions are being met with partial answers, impatience, yet additional rhetoric that talks in general terms about "change" and other feel-good modes that seek to deflect, elide and occlude rather than inform at genuinely probative levels. I.e. politics as usual sermonized under the banner and heading of the politics of change and the politics of feel-goodisms sermonized under the banner and heading of the politics of substance and depth. I.e. Elmer Gantry has nothing on Wright and Barack and Michelle Obama. Absolutely nothing. Nada.

Mike

Nick Kaplan: It's not suprising but it would appear you don't know one Mike from another! The 'Mike' writing in the DT is not the same Mike as contributing to this thread. However, on Obama it would now seem that over 63% of the American people wouldn't agree with you. Also and while in this vein, where is the evidence that Obama 'grovels to the Arab street'? I wasn't aware that Arabs generally are on the voting rolls of the USA. I'm certain there are many traditionally liberal minded Jews who will indeed vote for him, but where is the evidence that he 'grovels' to them. The fact is he doesn't have to 'grovel' to anyone. His brilliant speech in Philadelphia was an outstanding example of political bravery at its best; the only candidate in recent memory to confront the race issues in America head-on, and at the very least he deserves credit for that.

Mike

‘Obama’s race-hate row is sheer hypocrisy.If the only American citizens qualified to run for the presidency had to swear on oath that they had never consorted with a white friend or relation who said hateful things about blacks, or a black friend or relation who said hateful things about whites, then all the current contenders would have to withdraw from the race. So far, however, only Obama has been faced with this test. This is grossly unfair. He is undoubtedly guilty of having consorted with a black pastor friend who curses white America, but can Senators Clinton and McCain honestly deny having listened, over and over again, to whites insulting blacks? Of course they can't. Such racial jibes - now mostly 'enjoyed' behind closed doors - are as much part of the American heritage as apple pie.
Therein lies the dilemma. The America most white Americans have loved is white America; a country that black Americans have no more reason to love, or be loyal to, than German Jews had to Nazi Germany.
In today's America that is no longer quite the case. But in the nature of things, bitter resentments still remain, resentments which are more than justified and which white Americans should take on the chin with good grace.
If Hillary Clinton goes on to win the nomination because of Obama's refusal to denounce his old friend, it will be a shameful, scandalous business, doing serious damage to race relations and to America's image in the world.
It is her loyalty to America, her patriotism, which is about to be put to the test. Lacking the needed delegates, she has a fine excuse to withdraw; in my view a duty to do so. Pray God she does it. ‘
From the pen of Peregrine Worsthorne

Michael B

"Therein lies the dilemma. The America most white Americans have loved is white America; a country that black Americans have no more reason to love, or be loyal to, than German Jews had to Nazi Germany." Mike - Perversely silly. Firstly, black Americans, virtually en masse, have been loyal to America, in contingents during WWII and elsewhere. Secondly, if that were true blacks would be leaving America, virtually en masse. Race relations - not unlike other forms of human relations, btw - could still use some improvement in the U.S., there is no doubt. But to use an analogy with the Jews in Nazi Germany is to align yourself with some of Rev. Wright's morally and intellectually perverse language.

Mike

Michael B. Not my pen. I understand what Worsthorne is saying. The main thrust of his argument is that the race-hate row is hypocritical which indeed it is, and not necessarily restricted to the peoples of North America I might add. However, I agree his analogy with the Jews of Hitler Germany is 'perverse'. As an aside, I do hope you have read Barack Obama's speech IN FULL unlike many others who have merely watched the video or more simply read what predictable Melanie has had to say and reacted similarly.