Moral blindness -- and truth and justice betrayed

Truthtriumphs

The problem is that successive Israeli governments have bought into the narrative that Fatah= moderate.
The difference between Hamas and Fatah is that the former is explicit about its aims, whereas the latter couches its agenda in language designed to placate its western audience.
The ideology of both is the same.
Some of the blame must lie with Israel for not standing firm and tolerating demands that no other state in the world would accept.
That said, it is clear that Clinton's ignorance is matched by her arrogant malevolence.

Diana from Australia

I am not as accepting of Mrs Clinton's "error". If the US had the Westminster system I would be expecting the Opposition shadow minister for Foreign Affairs to call for her resignation.

The Obama administration is basing its whole Israel policy on the assumption that the Fatah/Palestinians are accommodating and reasonable partners while Israel is the intransigent party.

If the Secretary of State is not even aware of the difference between Hamas controlled Gaza and Fatah controlled West Bank, and therefore doesn't realize that the Palestinian endorsement of the naming of a public square after a terrorist indicates that it is not the peaceful and cooperative party the Obama administration is holding it out to be and on which America's foreign policy is predicated - then she is not fit to hold her present office.

Not a howler but a sign of great incompetence. She should resign.

wearenotblind

The problem is that she (Hillary) and her boss are two faced. They campaign for office as strong supporters of an Israel that is under siege from regressive forces on all sides, and when elected treat Israel as some imperialist foreign enterprise treading on the aspirations of the peaceful indiginous population. So as not to lose Jewish support, Hillary goes to speak at Jewish groups and promises up and down that she is pro-Israel. Simply put, she is lying. The current US leadership is setting Israel up to be the fall guy for the failures of their foreign policy. Already a senior general has blamed difficulties in war on US support for Israel. If Hillary and Obama didn't agree with that, the man would at least be censured, and with a real president, like Truman, have had his ass fired. By the way, how come if she knows it was Fatah that had the square named after the terrorist Hillary wasn't on the phone lambasting Abbas for 45 minutes. It is all part of the leftist pattern of her and her boss that what anti-western people and countries do is just a fight for freedom and what western countries or people do is either imperialim or thinly disguised racism. On to the Malvinas Hillary (unless of course you are speaking to a pro British group about the Falklands).

Paul Lipof

Melanie: you see it and I see it, but when are the rest of the Jewish people going to wake up to the hypocrisy and blindness? I see a catastophy approaching and lack the means to avert it. Melanie, keep up your Gshreiing for the sake of the Jewish people

Jerry

Let us understand President Obama's stand correctly. He cannot be Israel's ally precisely because "he does not acknowledge the difference between right and wrong." It is the curse of Marxism. There are force and goals. Means to an end can consist of anything at all.

Mladen Andrijasevic

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said:
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2010/03/138722.htm

âœWhen a Hamas-controlled municipality glorifies violence and renames a square after a terrorist who murdered innocent Israelis, it insults the families on both sides who have lost loves ones over the years in this conflict. (Applause.)â

The importance of Hillary Clintonâ™s speech is that now, thanks to her, it can be easily proven by simply looking at where Ramallah is situated on the map, that the whole US peace process policy in the Middle East is based on the fiction that Fatah is moderate. They had to change geography to fit the fantasy. This reminds me of the days when Soviet cities on Soviet maps changed their positions every few years in respect to nearby rivers and mountains so as to â˜fool♠the CIA.

This time, however, the US is fooling itself. Then they will be surprised why things do not work as they predicted.

As Raphael Israeli put it, World Leaders Lost their Way
http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_display.cfm/blog_id/26605

Patrick de Barry

Melanie, do you or do you not agree that Israel belongs to the Semites?
If you do agree with this statement, then you must accept the fact that those living in that area, which is again called Israel, for thousands of years are the true Semites.
Those descended from Abraham may now be Christian, Muslim or Jew. I find it amusing that you only equate that region as only belonging to the Jews and not the Semites.
Why is this? Doesn't that Land belong to the Semites or not? Or does it belong to the European and American Jew who are quite possible Khazar Jews? Which is it? Please enlighten us with your wisdom of this region.

Inge

The Obamis, incl Clinton are not interested in what is right, but rather what is convenient for the muslims. Any excuse is better then none. The total failure regarding the issue allows me to label the Obamis the most anti-jewish admin by far.
I can only hope that they don't succeed. I pray, that Netenyahu keeps firm, and don't give into their demands. Looking out for my jewish brothers, and sisters is more important than ever.

Jonathan Karmi

This 'gaffe' is way, way more serious than the Israeli gaffe over the timing of the Ramat Shlomo announcement. There are only two possible explanations for Hillary Clinton's error : 1) chronic ignorance, or 2) lying to make reality fit with the Obama / Clinton worldview. Both are shameful and utterly inexcusable.

Broadwood

Patrick -
According to both the Torah and the Koran, the land of Israel was promised by God to the physical descendants of Israel (aka Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham)- that is the Jews, led there by Moses.

Next question??

Matt Pryor

Once again Times Online has become a vipers nest of hatred and bigotry in the comments section on this article:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7071927.ece

Check out the three "most recommended" comments. Utterly despicable. I cannot believe (I sincerely hope) that such sentiments are representative of the UK, or even the Times readership.

Once again I have attempted four posts this morning, again all quite reasonable and defensive of Israel, and not one has been published. I'm starting to feel a bit paranoid.

A comment to Paul Lipof:

It's not just the Jewish community that will suffer but all supporters of Israel in the UK. I think there are more of us than you imagine, but a lot of us are intimidated against speaking up by the intimidatory tactics of the haters. Unfortunately as is always the case the Jewish community will bear the brunt of "their" hatred and anger.

In my opinion it's high time for those of us that support Israel (Jewish or otherwise) to become a bit more organised. Operation Cast Lead was horrible for me because of the atmosphere in the UK, and because as an Israel supporter I felt incredibly isolated.

just Louise

Has anyone looked at the "Jewish Chronicle" online blogs recently? It's not only Hillary Clinton and Haaretz who need lessons - the Liberal Jewish leadership in this country has played host to a One State advocate, and apparently the Montagu Centre (Liberal Judaism's London HQ) is often the venue for speakers antipathetic to Israel. The Liberal Jewish spiritual leadership seems to be the Guardian CiF in clerical garb. Shocking stuff.

cityca

I heard Netanyahu's speech to Aipac last night - thank goodness he doesn't seem to have allowed himself to be cowed by Clinton and Obama.

Lets hope Obama is just a one term president, although in that time he'll have done enough damage.

La Cumparsita

Melanie - you are correct. I just wish that the media in general could understand the situation as you do. But what about this disgraceful reported expulsion of an Israeli diplomat by the UK? Perfidious Albion indeed!

Patrick de Barry

Broadwood

You really skated around the issue. At the time, those Semites were Jews until some of them converted to other religions. Ergo, Israel belongs to the Semites.

Please answer the question fully,,, if you can.

Carl

La Cumparsita
March 23rd, 2010 12:10pm Perfidious Albion indeed!

Er, it wasn't the UK that cloned the passports of innocent people in order to carry out an extra judicial execution in another sovereign State.

Neil Craig

This is the woman who supported her election campaign by claimed to have "landed under fire2 in Bosnia when she knew not only that it was a lie but that there was film of the landing. Theses people expect most of the media will cover up their lies & are generally correct.

anon

Actually, the square is in el-Bireh which is a bit north-east of Ramallah (http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=1715 "The El-Bireh Municipality has completed construction work at the Shahida (Martyr) Dalal Mughrabi Square in the Um Al-Sharait region, and has commenced preparations for its inauguration this Thursday, the anniversary of Mughrabi's Martyrdom."

El-Bireh's municipality IS controlled by Hamas. Still, Clinton was obviously trying to excuse the dedication which Abbas and Fatah could have stopped if they were at all interested in fostering tolerance amongst the Palestinians.

James Murphy

Karl - And, er, no it wasn't Israel that started (nearly half a century ago) blowing up jets and buildings to kill innocent civilians either.. Two wrongs, etc, dummy.

Truthtriumphs

Carl.
Er,isn't it the adherents of another Abrahamic faith who regularly abuse UK passports for illegal activities, such as bringing illegal migrants here, whose agenda is murder and mayhem, or are you just selective as to whom you consider a danger to UK citizens?

ahad ha'amoratsim

Patrick, any time you quibble over the fact that Arabic is a semitic language or bring up the fantasy of Khazar Jews, you brand yourself as ignorant or worse. Please stick to reality and relevance.

ahad ha'amoratsim

Melanie, one quibble -- wouldn't it be more accurate to describe AIPAC as a pro-Israel lobbying group rather than a Jewish lobbying group?

Jonathan Karmi

Thanks to 'anon' for making an important factual point. But Hillary Clinton was still guilty of misinformation. Please read this interesting article by a Palestinian (and very anti-Israeli) writer on the topic ... http://aliabunimah.posterous.com/exposed-at-aipac-hillary-blamed-hamas-for-dal

Broadwood

Patrick, it's you whose terminology is not precise enough. The Semitic races
are a much wider group of peoples of whom the 12 tribes of Israel are only a
part. To officially claim ethnic Jewish identity you have to prove your
descendence from Israel (Jacob). And the state of Israel was founded to give
ethnic Jews a homeland.

Some of Israel's descendants may well have embraced other faiths, or indeed had
other faiths thrust upon them, but that's not the point. And you don't have to
be an ethnic Jew, or to follow the Jewish faith to be an Israeli citizen.

Stephen Fox

Matt Pryor,
You are right about Times online. I tried a pretty mild comment on a leader last week about the announcement of house building in East Jerusalem, pointing out the Dalal Mughrabi incident, and wondering why some people's mistakes seemed to be worse than others.
It never saw the light of day, like quite a few others I've made in the last few years. I can't see any excuse for keeping comments back, except for abusive or ad hominem attacks.

blue_&_white_avenger

Stephen, Matt Pryor - I have exactly the same problem with the Times online.
Once, some months ago, I hit a lucky streak & they published two of my contribs. But generally, they're ignored - whereas, Jayil London seems to have a favoured spot for whatever junk he produces.

zsa zsa

What a coincidence! A man with the name Hussein is elected and Israel and the U.S. all of a sudden have a "major" political fallout. Who would've guessed?

Adam B.

Er, no Carl, it was Russia who did precisely that in 2008, in Dubai. Russian agents gunned someone down in a car park, in broad daylight. Never hit the headlines. Wonder why?

No Jews involved?

Adam B.

Oh Patrick please, not that old chestnut. Do some basic research about Semites and Jews.

Bruce

This business of Arabs and Jews being Semitic needs a bit of a review.

Many different peoples have occupied the much-contested “Middle-East for several millennia. So who is really who?

Are Arabs Semites? The Arabic language is Semitic, as it is derived from the ancient Semitic languages of the Sabeans and Nabateans.

Whilst the Ethiopian languages, Ghe'ez and Amharic, are Semitic, the Ethiopian people are not Semites but Kushites.

Are Arabs Ishmaelites? Not true for the overwhelming majority of them. There is no evidence even a single Arab can trace direct descent from Ishmael. These genealogies are recent inventions.

Arabs are primarily Hamitic, with some Semitic contribution.
Arabic was NOT spoken in ancient times: it is the most recent of all Semitic languages, and is derived evolved from Nabatean, Sabean, Lihyanite, Safaitic, Thamudic and other tongues. There was not a single document written in anything resembling Arabic until Roman times.

Arabs had a Kushitic culture in pre-Islamic times. Like the Nubians, Ethiopians and other Hamitic nations they were mainly ruled by queens, and had a female-centred society. This original culture has been completely inverted by Islam into a male-ruled society. Islamic Arab society does not display a Semitic style but a system based on applying an inversion of the previous social rules and customs.

Archie

Well, I'm no expert, Miss Phillips, but it looked as though the Secretary of State was "on" something whilst delivering her speech. Understandably so, considering the content!

Dixon

Re Times Online. I dont read it. However, I understand Mr Murdoch now has big Saudi involvements.

We all know newspapers are on their last legs.

The faster all newspapers have finally folded the better for everyone. Except our enemies perhaps.

David, Thailand

Bruce: I would guess the ancestors of many if not most ME and North African Muslims were Christians and Jews.

Conversion was as it is today, the nature of this particular beast.

William Benson Huber

Does Clinton know this ? Don't be too sure. As my NY Senator the howlers were the subject of hot debate as to her motives and agenda ,at least at first As the years progressed, however, it became apparent that this self advertised intellectual , workaholic, wonk etc. simply didn't know what the hell she was talking about. And I mean, most of the time. Her massively financed and media backed run for the presidency set a new standard for campaign incompetence and sheer idiocy. Now on the world stage the only question remains is how long until the world catches on. If Israel ends up holding the stained blue dress, don't be surprised if the reasons are hard to fathom.