Israel as Czechoslovakia

Craig Strachan

Didn't Czechoslovakia finally opt for a two-state solution?

Bring it on

It has to be like this. It was always like this. It will always be like this.

Not only is it biblical but you can't have a decent, honourable scrap unless you're outnumbered and outgunned, backs to the wall. Better to burn out than fade away.

Lee Jakeman

"Didn't Czechoslovakia finally opt for a two-state solution?"

Not quite. The Czechs told the demanding Slovaks to buzz off.

john Norman

Please do give us a clear explanation why the EU should be included in the Quartet? In fact TB aka Tony Blair should be declared persona non grata forthwith and Israel should extend an invitation to India - should we desperately need a quartet - to occupy the 4th seat

Neil Turner

I wouldn't worry too much Melanie

If the answer to Israel's problems was political, then yes, we should worry

However, the fact that Israel exists at all is a miracle, God-given. I for one believe that He will continue to stand by them not because they deserve it, but because He said He would

andy t

If God be for us, who can be against us?

ROB

I fear this is merely a Labour government in pre-election point scoring, happy to sacrifice its values in order to win votes from the left for being 'tough on Israel'.

The bigger concern I have is Miliband stating that the 12 victims in this situation found themselves as 'alleged terrorists' - implying that Mossad is a terrorist organisation. If the Foreign Secretary is so easily forgetting who's who in the middle-east, what hope is there for the rest of the country?

B.Roozendaal

With what kind of logic are we supposed to believe that a sophisticated agency such as Mossad did not notice or did not bother to sabotage the surveillance cameras, or indeed feed a fake signal into them ? All images are supplied courtesy of the Dubai authorities, and the way this supposed hit is portrayed suggests a high level of stage direction on their part.

david elder

The Dubai assassination may or may not have been solely due to Mossad. But Israel does need to sort out this passport issue. It has also become a sensitive one here in Australia, a country usually broadly sympathetic to Israel. Some Australian passports were also involved in the Dubai affair. The settlement issue is also sensitive here but more because of poor reporting - I place less real significance on it. But some resolution of the passport issue would help Israel's cause down here.

Austin Barry

Our venal and corrupt politicians know only one big thing: the UK now has more Islamic than Jewish voters.

The massively positive and civilising contribution of the Jewish community to this nation over centuries means absolutely nothing to these vote-wheedling creatures who to continue guzzling at the State trough would even appease our enemies, foreign and domestic.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Austin Barry
March 23rd, 2010 10:09pm

I was going to write, but after reading Austin's posting, I felt he had said, far better than I could, what I believe in this matter.

Wat t Tyler

ROB, the depressing thing is that there is no protest from the conservatives. Our political elite think that they will win votes by appealing to the ant-semitism in the country!

Like on most issues, we will find increasingly that they are wildly disconnecteda from and out of step with their electorate.

Neil Turner, well said. In the end, the truth is absolute, and the reason the anti-semites (and self-hating Lefties, for that matter) are so hateful of it is that they can't help but convict themselves by it in their own minds by means that they cannot fathom.

Craig Strachan, Czechoslovakia was betrayed by its friends to a 60 year hard suffering prison sentance before any of which you allude to in your cocky comment.

Herbert Thornton

Melanie writes -

"As Iran races to obtain its genocide bomb, Obama and Miliband are preparing to abandon its putative victim – and, in turn, their own countries - while grovelling to the enemies of civilisation. The systematic delegitimisation of Israel has done its infernal work all too well in softening up the public –in Britain, at least – for the final annihilation of those who only want to be allowed to live in peace in their historic homeland."

We would do well to understand that while Melanie refers to "those who only want to be allowed to live in peace in their historic homeland", and while that description certainly applies to the Jews in Israel, it applies every bit as much to the indigenous population of western Europe - and of Britain in particular. The only difference is that for the population of Israel, the threat of extermination that hangs over them and their civilisation is both nuclear and a great deal more immediate.

To paraphrase Pastor Niemöller -

"First they aim to exterminate the Jews, but we needn't speak up because we aren't Jews....."

Mailman

Milliband had better hope Israel really IS responsible for that goon being knocked off because if it turns out it was a palestinian hit...oh how the shit will come down on his and his governments head!

Of course the BBC is reporting that Israel is guilty, never mind the fact that the evidence of that guilt hasnt been released.

Having said that, didnt the darling of the left (that geezer snapped in Afghanistan who did a bit of time in Gitmo) come to the UK on a false UK passport?

Derek

Craig Strachan

"Didn't Czechoslovakia finally opt for a two-state solution?"

May be, but only after it had first been occupied by the foreign nazi representatives of a minority of its population and then had to be twice liberated in order to be its own man again.

In any event, as it seems necessary to point out time and time again, but as our venal government just will not recognize, it is islam that will not accept a two state solution - they will insist on one state only... Those who love liberty and civilization will have to ensure that that state is Israel - an uphill battle against the FOG*.

*Friends of Goliath.

Dave S

When Iran goes nuclear and the West, particularly Europe, finds itself targetted and subject to nuclear blackmail I would hazard a guess that Israel will be a far safer place to be. The Iranians would think long and hard about an attack on Tel Aviv for they know the consequences. An attack on Vienna or Rome ? A lot of hand wringing and gibbering but knowing our craven leaders not much else.
Israel will survive and should ignore Western posturing.

Logz

Rob "Labour government ...happy to sacrifice its values"

Er, what values would these be Rob?

Any pretence at values this lot had, went a very long time ago.

Frank P

Austin Barry @ 10.09pm

Sadly everything you write is true. Even sadder is that there are Jews in the Government who are espousing the anti-Israel stance. Traitors to both England and their Judaic heritage.

And the inexorable and accelerating approach of Islamic inundation of our country and our culture continues with scant commentary or even concern, apparently, of our government or the media. But they get miffed because a a potential mass murderer from Hamas is taken out, because the signal victory involved forged freakin' passports. British passports! Ye Gods!

Would it not have been wonderful if the British passports were actually being carried by MI6 agents?

And to think this country once helped to win WWII.

Simon (aka shoebummer) UK

Czechoslovakia did not have 22 armoured divisions and nearly a thousand nukes.
Or history would have been very different.

Brian Barton

It amazes me how Israel gets scolded for defending herself. Terrorists shoot rockets into Israel and the Israelis get blamed when they retaliate. Crazy.

The only solution is to give Gaza to Egypt and the West Bank back to Jordan....if only they were willing to take the "Palestinians". Unfortunatly nobody wants them - the fact that there are Palestinian refugees after 40 years in Lebanon is a confirmation.

omda

So ROB, who's who in the middle east .. !? people are still buying it .. keep selling bdy ... the market is all yours.. why looking for friends .. isn't it time to call for the nuclear out of the cave.. solve it your self.. OR god is unable to give you what he promised.. he also promised that you will never ever reach what you see.. that is why you can see the star in the sky.. but we'll wait for you and your people to reach it the long you tell us.. .. god created the stars and can do anything with them But unfortunately he can't give you the few square kilometers he promised you .. is that what you are selling?

dog

The WORST possible repercussion of the Mabhouh affair would be to discover that it was NOT the Mossad what dunnit!!!

J. S. G.

andy t, you are absolutely right. Any retaliation against Israel no matter what Mossad does (especially something as benign as forging passports, if at all true) is an act against God. It is shameful that after sixty years the Europeans and Americans have stood in the way of Jewish sovereignty over all of Israel.

Joshua

Giving succour to terrorists

From an article in the Daily Telegraph:

"A spokesman for Hamas said it welcomed the decision to expel the diplomat but called for increased international efforts to track down the killers."

Pavlos Planoudakis

As many have already said very well, G_d Almighty has promised to stand for Israel when all others abandon them, but also He will hold accountable those countries such as USA, UK, et al who turn against and fail to stand with Israel.
Isreal has been in impossible situations many times in it's history over the thousands of years it's been around and as long as Israel keep Faith, they will triumph through G_d!

elvira king

Dear Melanie,

I will say 'not in my name'! I am a Christian who knows that we are all, religious or secular, in a great debt to the Jews. The same political and spiritual forces that seek to destroy Israel today will, no doubt, fail spectacularly, because they are up against the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!

Paul Freeman

Melanie, two points.

Firstly, the one made by Diana West in her blog of 18 March about the choice of language by the Obamites in their attack on Israel (http://www.dianawest.net/Home/tabid/36/EntryId/1323/-Arab-Anger-the-Obama-Administration-Gen-Petraeus.aspx):

"This is the policy of appeasement, Islamic appeasement, and, under the constant drip, drip, drip of oil dependence, it has been eroding our national security posture since long before 9/11, reshaping a world perspective that conforms with that of the Islamic world. This eruption over housing in Jerusalem -- an "insult," an "affront," said White House adviser David Axelrod, strangely using the language of offended Islam -- is just its most vivid political manifestation to date."

“Strangely using the language of offended Islam” is of course exactly what British Foreign Secretary David Miliband also did when he described the cloning of British passports as an "insult" to Britain. “Insult”, one might add -- a word more commonly heard in honour/shame cultures than in the modern democratic West -- is not a word used towards a party one thinks of as a friend.

Secondly, British secret services may not have been caught out cloning the passports of a friendly nation, but they most certainly have been accused of complicity in “extraordinary rendition” and torture. I leave it to the readers of your blog to determine which is the greater crime and transgression against human rights.

Dylan Jones

"It amazes me how Israel gets scolded for defending herself. Terrorists shoot rockets into Israel and the Israelis get blamed when they retaliate. Crazy."

What would be the correct way for Palestine to defend itself from occupation and siege?

Logz

Joshua - while watching Sky news last night, the female newsreader reported that "and at 6.30 I will interviewing someone from Hamas about this latest developement".

I couldnt believe it. Has anyone on Sky even read the Hamas charter?

Talk about the oxygen of publicity!! Unbelievable.

Robert Mitchum

I just saw the expulsion as Labour taking this weeks emergency 'smoke-screen' news item off the shelf and feeding it to the compliant press to distract attention from their latest scandal. They always do it and it is very predictable. Watching journalists at a news conference gratefully lapping up the propaganda is shameful, but they appear so mesmerised by their proximity to these odious politicians that, as far as truthful reporting is concerned, the public can go to Hell.

cityca

There was a time when politicians had convictions and they acted according to their principles. Nowadays, the only convictions are, get into power and stay in power. The state of the nation they represent is of secondary concern.

This sums up the UK Labour government to a tee. Unfortunately, it also sums up the UK opposition parties too.

I don't really believe in the forecasts of Nostradamus, but it's hard not to be concerned that the US, UK and all the western states are paying scant real attention to Iran and its nuclear ambitions, because it seems capable of unthinkable stupidity if it achieves its goals,but at present, Obama and Brown seem content not to aim their concern at Iran, but at Israel, and it seems to me to be entirely for their own, selfish, electoral advantage.

Alex Bensky

The Czechs would have fought if anyone had been willing to support them, and alas, it is in the realm of the counterfactual that we can wonder what could have been avoided if that had happened.

But the Israelis will fight and there's the key difference.

By the way, following World War II several million Sudeten Germans were expelled from Czechoslovakia. They aren't in refugee camps today and they aren't spending their time devising increasingly grotesque terror schemes. I wonder why the world's attention isn't focused on them.

Alan

"But to throw out a diplomat is one of the most serious signs of diplomatic disapproval a country can take. To do so against a supposed ally suggests a very serious breach in that relationship"

And how serious is it to steal the passports of an ally for a murder plot?

David L

Not wanting to be hypocritical over ID theft the Labour Govt. have decided to honour the privacy of foreign nationals by not checking their ID on entry or exit from the UK - lest this information might be misused by or forces.

This was not an issue about passport cloning but Dubai's passport checks. Has anyone seen these cloned passports to know whether they were any good or the information accurate.

paul

With an election in the offing dont forget over 20 Liebour seats depend on the Asian vote including that scumbag Straw. So no surprises there over current events. Hope we can still cooperate with Mossad for intelligence reasons. Its also easy to obtain a British passport on the black market.

JSC

"I wouldn't worry too much Melanie. If the answer to Israel's problems was political, then yes, we should worry. However, the fact that Israel exists at all is a miracle, God-given. I for one believe that He will continue to stand by them not because they deserve it, but because He said He would"

Err, thanks for that Neil. Do you have to reduce every political discussion to some inane religious statement dressed up as profound insight?

stanley Jerusalem

I have a dear and old friend who now lives in Jerusalem and is very heavily involved in political and diplomatic circles. She recently uncovered a British diplomat who was misusing his position to assist,
spy for and train Hamas. As a result he was expelled from Israel.
The difference is Israel did not want to embarrass a close ally and it was done hush hush with no publicity. Unlike our Foreign Secretary yesterday. So who is the mensch!

JSC

stanley Jerusalem, that's quite a strong accusation. Of course, in a bid to keep this major diplomatic incident under wraps your dear old friend decided it would be safest just to tell you. Good thing you're not re-telling the whole story on the internet, eh?

Or is it just made up?

JSC

stanley Jerusalem, that's quite a strong accusation. Of course, in a bid to keep this major diplomatic incident under wraps your dear old friend decided it would be safest just to tell you. Good thing you're not re-telling the whole story on the internet, eh?

Or is it just made up?

De Rigueur

Ask yourselves guys.

If Mossad were really going to bump off an enemy in a hotel, in a foreign country, would they leave lying around passports of nationals that were supposedly from "friendly" countries?

Surely they would have left Lebanese, Syrian, Iranian or Egyptian passports.

Or maybe I'm just na•ve.

Nicole S

Dylan Jones: 'What would be the correct way for Palestine to defend itself from occupation and siege?' Easy. Stop firing rockets at children coming out of school in Sderot. Don't turn down every single offer of peace and land, from 1948 onwards. Stop heaping new demands on Israel that were never part of the road map. Renounce the Hamas charter that calls for the total destruction of Israel. Recognise Israel's existence. Choose leaders who genuinely want peace, not corrupt thugs desperate to hang on to power.

Greg Phillips

Mike Huckabee, for one, has and will continue to stand for Israel. The way the Obama administration has handled this 'incident' is shameful.

Robert Mitchum

'Paul 12.23pm' is right about the Muslim vote. Perversely, most of the anti-semitism is not coming from the Right but from the Left and Hard-Left, and it is extraordinary how so many Jews still support Labour. What on earth are they doing belonging to a party which panders to a religious group containing many who would like to see the not only the destruction of Israel but no doubt large numbers of Jews along with it.

Goran A.

Dylan Jones, you write: ""It amazes me how Israel gets scolded for defending herself. Terrorists shoot rockets into Israel and the Israelis get blamed when they retaliate. Crazy. What would be the correct way for Palestine to defend itself from occupation and siege ?"
The answer is simple: (1) The Occupation of the West Bank is the resut of Nasser OFFICIALLY proclaiming (on 26 May 1967) "The battle will be a general one and our basic objective will be to destroy Israel". (2) The correct way for Palestians to want tehisraeis to leave woud be too guaranteee that there will be no more DELIBERATE attacks against Israeli CIVILIANS (in plain English: Terorrism). Which by the way began by Fatah in 1964, BEFORE the Occupation in 1967

Derek

Alan

"And how serious is it to steal the passports of an ally for a murder plot?"

If the country stealing the passports is threatened with being wiped off the map, not very.

Besides, if one's allies defended one stoutly, such measures might not be necessary.

It is by no means clear incidentally that the assassination was a Mossad operation.

David L

"If Mossad were really going to bump off an enemy in a hotel, in a foreign country, would they leave lying around passports of nationals that were supposedly from "friendly" countries?"

It's obvious you'd use passports of your own residents as a double-bluff. If Mossad are so sophisticated they'd never make such a lame job - this is why it must have been them trying to throw us all off the scent.

Anyway Mossad are being confused with some other Intel Agency - One that gives a toss whose passport they are using.

Adam B.

Does anyone truly believe that MI6 has never used a forged passport?

Neil Craig

Who? Well I'd bet on Sarah Palin, despite the fact america's jews almost unanimously backed Obama.

That woman has balls, integrity & an understanding of civilisational isues.

Anne Syme

I am saddened and disgusted at my country's stance against the people and land of Israel.

Kennybhoy

Omar Khan Sharif

Asif Mohammed Hanif

Neil Turner

JSC

Secular Humanist I presume ?

You will never understand Israel on the political or humanistic level.

The last 2 letters of the name "Israel" mean "God"

My advice: get yourself a Bible, and find out what was written about the Land and people of Israel by the prophets over the last 3000 years

When you've read it, lets talk again

Baron

The whole affair smells.

It’s certainly possible that Mossad got careless and messed it up. Kind of unlikely, however. Also, would they deploy twelve operatives on a mission of this kind? What for? The more people involved, the greater the chance of things going wrong for reasons that cannot be predicted, down to plane delays, car accidents and stuff. What puzzles even more is the speed with which the Dubai authorities identified the supposed killers. How could they separate them from the thousands of other British passport holders so quickly? Did anyone tip them? I reckon there’s something fishy about it all, and Milliband may live to regret the haste.

john Norman

We'll see how the UK Govt. behaves when Argentina takes the issue of the Falkland Islands/Malvinas to the UN and it is decided that the area has to be handed over to the Argentinians. With Ban-Ki-Moon's approva. And a belligerent Brazil cheering their fellow Latin-Americans on from the sidelines. And the US positively neutral. This should put paid to Brown, Milliband and Co. for 2 generations

Jerry

Re JSC: You must be joking - all of your posts. Do you think that Britain does not spy on Israel - pure as driven snow Britain.

It is going back a while, 1970s, but I too know of cases where Israel sent Americans quietly packing because of their spying activities.

I will bet anything that you could not or would not name ten good things about Israel and its Jews.

Isaac Bickerstaff

I am curious about the response here in the last few days. Israel demonstrates its contempt of the US administration: the US administration shows its displeasure. Here we hear cries of "final solution". Israel apparently shows its disregard for the safety of some UK citizens resident in Israel. I am sure every secret service in the world does much worse. When they are found out, there are standard diplomatic hypocrisies to be observed. Yet here we hear cries of appeasement and allusions to the Nazis. Why? Does it not distract, or is it intended to distract, from what is potentially a more serious threat to the policies currently pursued by Israel? Gen. Petraeus has said that the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians is harmful to US national security. The question then is not about diplomatic spats or yet more settlements beyond the Green Line - the question is whether this represents the official opinion of the defence establishment. If it does, it presents Israel with a problem.

Simon (aka pk) UK

Yes it does pose Israel a problem.
Its most powerful allys military General staff is exposed as being a bunch of panty - waists, as I think Americans term it.
The US really should get a grip.

Rob-NY

I suggest viewing the classic American western "High Noon" which will strike friends of Israel as very familiar.

Rob-NY

This reminds me of Amb. Joe Kennedy (father of JFK,RFK, and Teddy) wanting to abandon England in 1940. I wish more Brits would realize that Israel is in the same position as the UK in WWII. A supposedly powerful democracy standing alone on the front lines against fascism. Bibi is the new Winston and the Keffiya is the new black shirt.

JSC

Neil Turner: "You will never understand Israel on the political or humanistic level."

I'm all ears Neil. Please do share your superior understanding of Israel on the political and humanistic level. I'm mainly a lurker here but i'll be looking out for the pearls of knowledge you'll be bestowing upon us.

In the Wilderness in America

Rob-NY

That is a fine analogy. Obama as Joe Kennedy is an accurate portrayal, except that Obama is not making any money by abandoning Israel, whereas Kennedy used his influence to ship Scotch and make money when Britain needed those ships for her survival in 1940.

Nevertheless, they both abandon decency and democracy in the face of evil. Cowardice is not strong enough a word to describe it.

Israel in 2010 and Britain in 1940 are shinning lights for freedom in a brutal, totalitarian world.

Herbert Thornton

I agree with Baron - nothing about the alleged Israeli involvement is convincing.

I think that whatever evidence the police discovered about Mabhouh's death was - for some undisclosed reason - considered highly embarrassing to either Dubai or to the Islamic world in general.

I suspect that what is being alleged about Mossad being involved is a cover up, designed to sound plausible to people eager to think ill of Israel. Such people will automatically find it plausible no matter how clumsy and improbable it may be.

kate b

Yes, no evidence was provided on Sky or the BBC. What upset me, enormously yesterday was that the hatred of Israel was almost tangible. As usual I turned to the Torah for comfort and got Ezekiel 35, especially 10-15 these Islamists and their sympathizers don't seem to realise it's YY they are hating and boasting against.

And off topic, but in the same vein,again today with Obummer and Netanyahu, the same rhetoric against Israel and more 'hurt feelings' in the whitehouse to align himself with those who are prone to interminable 'hurt feelings' because Israel won't be bullied - yet we can't have hurt feelings for the disrespect shown to Netanyahu. Jeremy Bowen continues in his whipping up Israelphobia with his 'occupied east Jerusalem' and 'Jewish settlers' in his tired, disapproving voice adds to the anti-Israel propaganda. It is like 1938.

Toni

Simon (aka shoebummer) UK, Czechoslovakia didn't have nukes, but neither did Germany. What Czechs had was Skoda, which was during the war adding about a third to Germany's industrial capacity.
Now, should Israel be betrayed the way of Czechoslovakia was, the Israeli armament industry will similarly fall into the enemy hands and the Western soldiers will ultimately pay with their lives, just like the Allies did. This time the barbarians will even get the nukes.
Too bad that after WW2 the West never bothered to calculate the cost of their betrayal.

MJ

Great article. I was in Israel at the end of last year and what so many Israel bashers in the west just do not understand is even the young - by Israeli standards - left wing Israelis, people who don't vote for Likud, never would, still would in a Western context be described as right wing zionists. The reality on the ground is so different to those in the west who sit here and make pronouncements against Israel. Britain has always been pro-Arab and worryingly now American is even worse. Let's hope we can get a Republican in the White House in 2012 but I think it's going to get worse much before.

E Young

Dylan Jones:

the correct way would be for the ordinary Arab people (there are no Palestinians) to shoot their own corrupt leaders (Hamas) who are their real enemies and are responsible for the siege and for killing their own and hiding behind their own women and children.

mombser2

However a point not to be missed-
No one has really shed any tears over the Taking out of that gun running terrorist.
Usually Israel has had to suffer the Liberal Elite tongue lashing of "How dare you assassinate an enemy combatant".
"Its not fair!"

Augustus

Even if Mossad was responsible for Mabhouh's murder, assassinations are only a sideline for them. Their primary duty is intelligence gathering for which they are far better equipped. If it was them, I suspect they thought it was quite a successful operation
compared to the crisis that followed their failed attempt at
Khaled Mashal in Jordan in 1997.

Davidka

Baldwin, MacDonald, Chamberlain and the other 1930's appeasers had few excuses for their execrable behavior. But today's British leadership has no excuses. They know exactly what Iran intends--- or for that matter Hamas, Hezbullah and Abbas--- and they are taking the steps necessary to delegitimize Israel preparatory to its sacrifice. So is Obama, of course.

Davidka

Several of the letter writers say things like "Czechoslovakia did not have 22 armoured divisions and nearly a thousand nukes or history would have been very different.

Actually, Czechoslovakia at the time had a formidable military and arms industry and a mountain barrier to invasion. It was a combination of betrayal by UK and France and its own leaders' lack of courage that destroyed Czechoslovakia. Many historians believe that Czechoslovakia could have stood firm, defied the Nazis and crushed the internal rioting by ethnic Germans, and the Nazis would have had to stand down; an invasion would not have succeeded. Also, had Germany attacked, Britain and France might have been forced to do what was right and enter the war.

Have the British leaders learned nothing from the past?

JOHN ROOSEVELT

There seems more outrage at this bloody passport "issue" than all the Islamo fascist vilence put together.

Where has the interest in Iran's murder of it's own protesters gone, for example? Hardly a peep, it seems, from any of the newspapers any more. Off the moral radar of the Labour party - so concerned for human decency they are...

Anyway, this is not about the moral issues involved. It is all about how Israel should respond to the constraints now clearly being imposed upon it.

I cannot fathom the Dubai hit. If it was Mossad, it would seem monumentally badly handled, despite the efficacy in the dispatch of the peaceful gentleman in Room ...

miki

It is extraordinary that Britain routinely kills masses of innocents,women and children in Afghanistan with hardly any comment or reaction except a brief announcement of the facts,whilst as usual Israel is expected to be the best behaving country in the world or else and not defend itself.
Any petty excuse is sufficient reason to pillory Israel,which of course serves two purposes-the rampant worldwide antisemitism can be justified and Islam may be appeased.Fat chance.When will grovelling to the enemies of the world cease?

Gary Wintle

Iran poses no threat. Even if Iran got nukes they would not dare use them.
I would remind people that America and Britain staged a coup in the 1950s ousting the elected Mossadeq and replacing him with a Banana Republic Dictator (the vile Shah), all purely fro the benefit of a few greedy oil companies (certainly not in any national interests).

There would be no Khomeini or DinnerJacket if the CIA and MI6 had minded their own business and not been such shameless corporate whores.

Let's put the blame where it belongs, at the door of the CIA and MI6 and their treasonous collusion with oil corps.

Given that the Americans put a brutal dictator in charge of Iran (for stupid, greedy, and selfish reasons), they can hardly criticise the current regime.

And one can hardly blame the Iranians for wanting to defend themselves against nations that have repeatedly threatened them and imposed a dictator on them.

Gary Wintle

Also, further to my point, the CIA supported the Islamist clerics, thus they were Khomeini's enablers.

SayItLikeItIs

Wow, Gary Wintle.... you're seriously out there, aren't you?

Adam B.

But Gary Wintle, Israel did not impose any leader on Iran, and it is Israel that is being specifically threatened by Iran - not just through repulsive anti-semitic speeches by its regime, but by deeds as well.

I don't know how you can confidently assert that Iran wouldn't dare use nukes. Do you really think that the Jews should simply shrug their shoulders and say "well, he probably doesn't mean it."

Ahmadinejad should know, and Israel should make clear, that when someone says to the Jews "we're going to kill you", those words are to be believed. And consequences are likely to follow.

phil

Just a thought ,but has anyone considered that an enemy of Israel may have infiltrated someone into the Israeli IMMIGRATION POINT WHERE PASSPORTS ARE SCANNED and copied them for later use .I have to assume having no other knowledge ,that it is how they were taken .The thought that Mossad could have been so clumsy even stupid to have acted in this way does not appear to be their modus operandi or has Clouseau got a job there ?

Carl

I can only think that Mossad has had to hire a few "Phils" as some sort of equal opportunities policy.

phil

Carl
March 26th, 2010 4:21pm -good to see you have a sense of humour .its certainly better than the hatred which usually emanates from your "pen"

Baron

Gary Wintle @ 6.49:

you reckon then the CIA and MI6 to blame for the current fruitcake running Iran, do you? I myself blame the pigeons, the little flying shitty bastards.

Edward in the USA

Craig Strachan, there already is a two-state solution.

It's called Israel and Jordan.

guilherme vergueiro

I liked your article very much.
Just for you to know, I do not remember reading, in Brazilian Newspaper, the UK's reaction about the killing of that terrorist in Dubai.
Israel is been put aside not only by US and UK but by all the International Community. It is a shame but it will not change for the time being, no matter how much Israel tries to show up whith it really is: a victim of the marxist culture more than the jihad. This is the revolution that succeed even after the wall was down in 89.
The defense of Israel depends on Israel and no one else. Therefore, Israel should act accordingly to the defense of its people and homeland. Shoot first and ask later.
Greetings from Brasil

A. MacAulay

I would ask those friends of Israel who follow Melanie Phillip's logic, to pause for thought and ask themselves if this Czechoslovakia analogy really, really makes sense?

It seems to me, I believe a well meaning outsider, that Israel is several dimensions stronger than all it's neighbours put together and has proved this on numerous occasions. If we ask ourselves the completely hypothetical question if a European power, like Britain or France were to invade Israel, would they succeed, or would they get a very bloody nose? Clearly the latter. So what real existential threat is posed to Israel by it's militarily 3rd/4th rate neighbours? Answer, militarily none.

The truth is that Israel can live with this status quo practically forever, and as long as the idiots send over a rocket or two to keep the political temperature up, at home and within Israel then the pain and loss seems affordable, to both sides. That's the way it looks from the outside.

And the "Plucky little Belgium" 1914 style rhetoric, the Czech analogy or even a completey and utterly absurd comparison between Britain in 1940 and Israel's situation today tell us not of the "real" situation but of the emotional frame of mind of M. Phillips and most of the pro-Israel commentators here. All the "facts" are plucked and sifted in order to mantle the real situation and to confirm the emotional.

And Iran? Iran has been steadily surrounded by the US with it's NATO auxhilliaries and is presently confronted on all it's borders with nuclear armed, potential and real enemies. They can't sleep at night and probably serves them right. For them to go nuclear means to attempt to immunise themselves against practically everything including reality. Anti-Israel prpoaganda is used mostly for home consumption to keep with war hysteria a regime in power whose legitimacy is otherwise dubious. Israel is a US cleint and with it's impasse with it's neighbours an all too easy and useful political target. If Israel wants it to stop then give up the status quo, sacrifice the settlements and make Achmeninaschad fall from his perch by making peace with a Palestinian state.

And lastly, for those who propagate Israel's interests, please consider that Britain, the EU and the US also have interests which are broadly parallel to Israels but as things stand now are not convergent. The "Arab" world is a consumer wasteland and completely underdeveloped. They need our washing machines, insurance and cars, and more importantly we need to sell them same. Badly!

Louise Weinberg

Melanie Phillips is balm to the spirit.

A.MacAulay

Yes, Louise Weinberg let your spirit be balmed, but don't forget that Israel's security is not only guaranteed by it's own very formidable army but also by the US and NATO, when it comes to it.

Matt Pryor

A. MacAulay: You say that Israel's security is not only assured by its own military but also by the US and NATO.

During the Yom Kippur war (a surprise attack from Egypt and Syria) the US did not even resupply Israel until the very last minute, and the US provided no military personnel. Neither did any other NATO country.

In 1967 Israel went it alone.

Israel took out Saddam's nuclear reactor alone, along with Syria's. No US help. Just lots of words.

Or how about the Suez crisis? Where was America then? Yep, forcing the UK and France to abandon Israel to its fate.

To me this demonstrates that Israel can rely on no-one to help it in times of crisis except Israel.

Even now, Israel's back is against the wall. Threats of war come from Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran, on a regular basis, and of late there have been some bellicose veiled threats from King Abdullah of Jordan (Israel's supposed peace partner).

Israel is under economic attack all over the world - even here in the UK there are loud calls for boycotting Israeli goods and divestment of academics in our universities in order to silence the Israeli point of view. It's the same in the US, Canada, all over Europe, Australia. Most Arab countries boycott Israel already.

What is Europe and America's way of supporting our "good friend and ally"? By strong arming them into giving away (more) territory. As if, in their deluded and simplistic world, that will stop all the hatred and violence around the world (much of it directed against Israel). It won't.

And these are the countries that Israel should be relying on to defend its citizens against the brutal invasion that they collectively fear? Can you imagine the reaction on the streets of London if Britain sided with Israel in a war against a Muslim state? Think back to Operation Cast Lead - if you need to refresh your memory read Melanie's old blogs at the time. Politicians are terrified of such public disorder.

Remind me, what did the US and NATO do during the weeks and months leading up to that conflict? When Shimon Peres personally went to the UN to plead for help against the rockets? Nothing. Silence. Governments that had pressured Israel to withdraw from Gaza, who had organised the elections that brought Hamas to power, turned their backs on the consequences. They only started paying attention when Israel finally responded, and only then as a result of public and media pressure due to the way the Israeli military was perceived to be behaving.

The threat of military attack is a real and genuine concern among Israelis. Their country is extremely vulnerable and surrounded by hostility. If you think that's unjustified or delusional then perhaps try reassuring them.

phil

A. MacAulay
March 28th, 2010 9:12am -I do not doubt your goodwill but I must doubt your conclusions and I believe Matt has put it very well,but just a little more food for thought -we have seen this week what Islam has brought to the city of Moscow when it does not get it,s way ,do I need to remind you of London ,New York and countless other places ,make no mistake we are at war with these lunatics and you can include the rest of the Muslims who are also their victims -Israel is fighting this battle on its borders and its streets whilst fools like Milliband pontificate from their lofty perches ,no doubt smiling and whispering asides that the Israelis are doing our work .We Brits need to think on that it is only a matter of time before we become not occasional victims -the lessons of Munich need to be heeded and now .

A. MacAulay

Matt Pryor and Phil, everything you say is true, but what I'm pointing out to you is that giving a long (for a small country) list of dangers overcome and battles won is not compelling evidence that Israel is weak and defenceless. Rather the contrary. Existentially threatened? Not by any army of any close or even more distant neighbour. "Israel is several dimensions stronger than all it's neighbours put together and has proved this on numerous occasions" is a perfectly fair and logical conclusion.

It is also more than fair to say that the friendship of the US toward Israel is in many ways unique. Don't you feel just a little bit humble, yes grateful that Israel has a friend like that? If you feel that the US failed in some instances to follow Israels immediate needs and interests then consider that they are obliged in a general and strategic sense but not in a tactical. Also, "The Europeans" are undoubtedly Israels freinds, even without taking into account that Britain, France, Germany and Italy can all broadly do what they want as long as it coincides with American interests. That's the price of American friendship.

Nuclear weapons are a cultural phenomenon. Societies, not necessarily democracies must reach a very high and complex degree of specialistion in order to produce the money and knowledge required to make them. At the same time nuclear weapons require a sort of shadow administration that keeps them out of daily politics. Clearly Iran is not such a society, just as Pakistan isn't. Alone they could never produce the technology for nuclear weapons, they have to steal it. This makes Iran a threat to us all which is why US policy seeks to close a general alliance or understanding amongst Iran's neighbours. Do you really expect understanding when Israel makes such a problem out of a piffling settlement in Jerusalem?