Intermission

Truthtriumphs

Enjoy!

mairT

Melanie, have a dam good holiday, well deserved. Don't forget to send me a postcard :0)

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Ms. Phillips: Enjoy your holiday. You certainly deserve it. We'll all miss you.

Alan Scott

Very well deserved!

Robin

Thanks for everything.

Alan Meyer

Happy Holidays!!!!

Margaret Muller Johansson

Thank You Melanie, Have a good summer too

Shalom.

phil

dont put you deck chair next to derek-enjoy

Gregory

You'll be missed, Melanie, but you deserve a rest after all the splendid work you've put in. Looking forward greatly to your return and hoping you have a fine summer.

DougS

Watch out for global warming - you don't want to get caught on the coast by a sudden 10 feet rise in sea level. Not to mention malaria, skin cancer and increased hurricane risk.

Alternatively, you could sod the lot of them and just enjoy yourself!

roger

Have a great holiday, Melanie. I will miss your informative and insightful posts.

Pickwick

Missing you already !!
Have a great holiday.

RR

You deserve it, have a good rest and come back ready for the fight.

Augustus

Hope you have a very enjoyable summer break. Looking forward to your return.

Simone

I just wanted to add my good wishes to the rest. Have a great time. I always enjoy reading your views.

George Marklow

I guess we'll have to do without the last remaining sane person in Britain for a few weeks.

Have a good holiday Melanie. We all look forward to your return!

jim comfort

Well done, however we will all miss your comments on what is going on in the world. I for one log on every day to see your comments, and will miss it very much. Enjoy your holiday

Brian Moshe

Hope you have a great holiday, Melanie!!

Thank you for never wavering as you fight the good fight.

Shalom, Brian Moshe.

Mr. Mabutoh Afunfa

Have a nice holiday!

Jez

if your going to the Costa del Sol i'll buy you a pint!

All the best.

george

Still no answer to my question: Where is the good PR for Israel or failing that the Jews...I read your book and the press has you out numbered but still think you could spend some time on the good guys.

Adam B.

Have a great summer!

Joan

Obvious that you are well loved and cared about Melanie. I read your blog every day and pass much of your information on to wherever it will have some punch. Have a well earned break - We will really miss you. God Bless you, Joan

Rip Van Winkle

Melanie, Ditto Phil.

Matt Pryor

Have a nice time Melanie.

Simeon

God Bless Melanie have a great holiday..come back soon!

Rip Van Winkle

Sorry Guys and Gals, back again.

Melanie, if you are still online enjoy your well earned rest; keep the plug pulled and enjoy your family; life with loved ones is too short. This is a heartfelt plea - pull that plug ... family.

Your other family at the palisades will resist jihadists:

Phil, Truthtriumphs, Augustus, Adam B, Just Louise, George Marklow et al fill that palisade gap with Melanie's fighting blogs!

Are we a team?

phil

Rip Van Winkle
August 10th, 2010 12:09pm -count on it rvw-no se pasaran

D. Roberts

Have a good, well deserved break, Melanie.

Come back refreshed. We need more people like you.

You provide sanity and fact amidst the propaganda and hatred. Reading your book at this time.... brilliant.

Kindest regards.

SimonP

Have a good vacation.

And when you get back, remember to adjust your watch by three hours...!

jobloggss

dear god pass the sick bag alice

phil

jobloggss-who asked you to join in the thoughts of normal kind people, smart alec -we wish our friend well and do not need idiots to downgrade this thread .try somewhere else there are lots of places for buffoons .
August 11th, 2010 8:23pm

Derek Pasquill

Have a nice holiday - but when you return is there no other blog you could feature at rather than the left-inflected Coffeehouse?

Lindsay

The Editor,
Could you clarify your policy on blogs.

I have noticed a number of comments over the weeks and months that criticism of Melanie Phillips does not appear. That has been my experience.

Also, Melanie Phillips made an allegation about the disembowelling of an Israeli soldier. No source was forthcoming. I e-mailed her. Since then, nothing at all by me has appeared, however innocuous.

Why is Melanie Phillips to be protected from criticism? Other bloggers are willing to engage with their critics.

You have my e-mail address.

jobloggss

phil that was not very nice

phil

jobloggss
August 13th, 2010 9:22pm -were you hurt? I hope so, these remarks here are to wish Melanie a happy holiday and to say thank you for all the hard work she does for us -we do not need the likes of you to make stupid remarks ,both you and the tiresome lindsay have taken the opportunity to display nastiness on this thread which I am sure is most unwelcome to the vast majority.

lindsay is well capable of writing to the editor by post without annoying all who post here ,and she is well aware of that fact . Personally I am delighted if the editor has stopped remarks by her ,they were never constructive merely attacks on matters Israeli ,
as she has just displayed with the disgusting remarks about a member of the IDF who lost his life in the defence of his country , and any replies she received were treated with stubborn stupidity. I hope Rip V W approves of my words .

Sorry to everyone else, to alter the tone of this thread ,but people like this will not get away unscathed .

jobloggss

yeah phil is right i am feeling very scathed

Andrei

phil
August 13th, 2010 10:49pm
I did not know Israeli soldier ordered to carry out illegal assault on ship of other nation died in the attack. I am surprised at news media for not telling us. I am sorry for his family (assuming they have been told).

kate b

Have a good break!

Kennybhoy

Lindsay @ August 13th, 2010 2:56pm

Been elevated to the Upper House then young Maister David?

Harold

Now here's a curious thing - the allegedly disembowelled commando telling his story on the BBC. So who was the "reliable" source who so misinformed Amir and Melanie Phillips?

phil

Harold
August 17th, 2010 10:03am There is nothing so curious as a person who wants to discuss such a matter on a thread which is to wish Melanie a happy holiday -I am sure I am not the only one who finds your remarks disgusting ,although not surprised .

Andrei

Phil
Sanctimonious, maudlin, ignorant, sentimental, bigotted, self-righteous...English language so full of good adjectives!

You should rejoice Israeli commando you said killed is very much alive and although suffered terror and horrible wound in illegal assault on ship was not disembowelled as Melanie Phillips reliably told us - perhaps for once exceeded task of loyal mouthpiece.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Melanie, have a wonderful summer. May you be refreshed in body and 'nefesh' (soul), and return to us ready to face whatever life throws our way. I admire you because you write it as it is and you are a brave spirit.

phil

Andrei
August 17th, 2010 5:46pm -save your breath ,nobody is interested in what you have to say ,and learn to write English and to spell if you wish to send insults -Mels friends will just see you as an ignorant fellow .You may of course redeem yourself by sending MEL your good wishes .

phil

Everybody -sorry again for responding to all those who wish to spoil the tone of this thread,,perhaps I should ignore them and treat them as not being worthy of a response -I suppose it is not as bad as being the West Brom goalie last week :)-MEL do not forget the sun screen .

sleeping dolls

Phil, I read this blog, and you do not speak for me. Furthermore, your grammar is below GCSE standard, where did you learn to be that bad with punctuation?

phil

sleeping dolls
August 18th, 2010 6:44pm -probably from an idiot like you -you know, a fool who can do grammar but has neither common sense nor anything to offer his world -ok? You will do well to read this thread where many intelligent and useful people pass their opinions ,some of whom in fact do not know where to put a semi colon ,but do know how to be a useful member of society ,can we say the same about you ?

Rip Van Winkle

sleeping dolls @ August 18 6:44pm

Your glasshouse has been holed by shoulder chips and two unworthy commas.

Now, sit back, take your time, and consider replacing the comma after "standard" with a semi-colon: punchy?

Get with it; you'll find glass expensive.

phil

sleeping dolls
August 18th, 2010 6:44pm -Just an afterthought -I remember seeing a couple of old bridge pro,s standing at the bus stop in the pouring rain having won a couple of quid off Jones ,who was passing in his brand new BMW on his way home -"look there goes that idiot Jones ,he is useless ,doesn,t know an ace from a king"--ring any bells son?-btw you forgot to wish MEL A HAPPY HOLIDAY !

Gerard

What we supposed to do without your comments?
But i hope you enjoy your holidays ?

phil

Rip Van Winkle
August 19th, 2010 8:57am ---:))

jimcomfort

Melanie, we hope you are enjoying your holiday. However just to let you know we all miss you.

Ordnance

I've just seen on the News that the UK has contributed $50M+ to aid Pakistani flooding victims, while the Saudi Arabia has donated $100M+.
In other words, per head of pop., a Christian country in recession has been as generous as a rich Muslin nation.
Why are the Saudi's so stingy considering how much they spend building mosques in the UK?

Graeme Thompson

I'm glad events are allowing you to continue your holiday. I hope you come back refreshed and revived. Civilisation needs you.

John Holland

Melanie; Come back soon- we're missing you. Come back refreshed to fight the good fight!

David Newman

Read your blog today, Melanie, disappointed to see no words of wisdom from you!
Have a good vacation!

Bob in LA

heard you on Dennis Miller, hope your holidays are enjoyable

Adam B.

Harold, how did you come to that conclusion? No-one claimed he was dead.

Glad your powers of deduction are as sharp as ever.

Harold

Adam B.
August 20th, 2010 11:23pm
Good to see your ability to read what is written is as entertaining as ever.

Your phoolish friend Phil claimed the commando was dead.

You were merely willing to believe that he had been carefully disembowelled before he was walked up on deck where he took a running jump (with his entrails hanging out) and then swam to safety. The commando himself seems to think what happened to him was more plausible (though I think still pretty traumatic).

phil

Adam B.
August 20th, 2010 11:23pm Harold has never claimed he is a seeker of truth ?I think he and lindsay are bringing out a joke book in the autumn named "the truth as told by hamas ":)

Andrei

Adam B.
Read phil
August 13th, 2010 10:49pm who told Lindsay of death. Harold I think commented only on appearance of commando on TV very healthy for one with guts ripped out. Given your disgraceful peformance on other thread on this subject maybe you are better not continue and remind all of your wilful gullibility (I think these are right words - I mean you are ready to support any allegation furthers your cause).

phil

Andrei
August 21st, 2010 11:22am -Oh and I forgot to say we are all so happy to hear of the recovery of the IDF commando ,who avoided death by the terrorists who stabbed him in the stomach ,and who we noticed you did not condemn .I should also praise the Panorama programme for what appeared to be a fair portrayal of what actually happened -I am sure it upset harold and lindsay ,it will not be appearing in their joke book ,but c,est la vie ,life goes on and who knows peace may now be on the menu ,but not if hamas and its friends have anything to do with it -where do you stand Andrei ?

Andrei

Phool

" she has just displayed with the disgusting remarks about a member of the IDF who lost his life in the defence of his country"

" we are all so happy to hear of the recovery of the IDF commando ,who avoided death by the terrorists who stabbed him in the stomach"

So in quaint phrase "turn on sixpence" to seem at least to self always right and justified in self-righteousness.

No-one disputed stabbing. No-one approved of it. Look back at what said and how defended - opened up stab wound with lateral cuts and took out entrails - reliably informed - not by IDF not by victim - by who?

phil

Andrex
August 21st, 2010 1:38pm -Not said by me pally ,but I love your quaint attempts at writing intelligible matter -I do like you but you are awful,and I,m sure we are giving MEL a good laugh .I hope so anyhow as this stuff is a bit banal otherwise.
--------------------------------- .Now see here young man ,I suggest you go and buy a copy of harold ,s joke book ,it will keep you busy until Mel gets back and I will not have to waste my valuable free time on you .-She no doubt will show less patience than me and she will deliver your nonsense to where it is most deserved ,the waste basket .SIGNED PHOOL .if that makes you feel more important .oh dear I hate to sign off andrei I am crying laughing ,but I need to know ,are you being ridiculous on purpose or is it for a joke or even a bet ?

Andrei

phil
August 21st, 2010 4:37pm

I refer you to:

phil
August 13th, 2010 10:49pm

phil
August 21st, 2010 12:37pm

OK, you do not understand what other people say. That is OK, there is no shame in being idiot.

But when you do not remember even what you say, then begin to worry. Dribbling insults and drivel - not good - advanced stage of senility.

phil

Andrex
August 21st, 2010 7:55pm As you say son--- "OK, you do not understand what other people say. That is OK, there is no shame in being idiot."---- nobody here will hold it against you ,but to be engaged successfully in repartee like this you will need to get a brain -if you just had a transplant ,you were robbed.:)

Andrei

I was not engaging in repartee.

While we are on subject of truth-telling, can you explain why you say Harold writes book about Hamas and truth? It was not Hamas said Israeli commando disembowelled -it was said here. It was not Hamas said commando dead - it was you. It was not Hamas said no-one claimed commando dead - it was your friend Adam B. (who it is good to see has the sense of shame to avoid further comment here). It was you said commando dead but thankfully recovering well. Huffing and puffing just make performance of blogger, Adam B. and you more absurd.

phil

Andrex
August 22nd, 2010 1:41pm -I do not know what language it is you speak ,but if you can understand plain English ,our discussions are at an end now -it was great fun whilst it lasted ,but I am bored now and I am sure everyone else is too .I hope you will get everything you would like from your life ,although I would warn against having too many sultanas -life is short enough anyhow .

Paul

All right, that's enough now, Melanie. Please come back!

gareth

Mel - when you come back take a look at what Alex Massie and James Forsyth have been up to in defence of freedom against bigotry and hatred.

Japan wanted to build a National Shrine at Pearl Harbour and the Spectator's Waitrose Shopping Duo have been sticking up for that ......as a whole nation can't be held responsible for the actions of 20 crazed, rogue Samurai.
The Mosque at GZ ? They are worried to death about Western Bigotry against this peaceful project of peace - the mosque proponents are the partisans of sharia and liberty which must be supported.

Marietta Sojourner Truth Higgs

Ordnance - according to your figures, and given the fact that the UK population is about 2.5 times that of Saudi Arabia, that makes the Saudis about 5 times more generous per head than the British.

Andrei

Phil,
Yes, I think it wise of you to duck for cover.

phil

Andrex
August 23rd, 2010 11:28am check your name on wikipedia it may explain why you keep sending....... ---I cant say it

Neil Peck

Ms. Phillips

Why does The Spectator tolerate Taki's anti-semitic and anti-Israel rantings ( see e.g. 14 August 2010 )? After the Holocaust and Iran's ( soon to be nuclear armed ) threat to obliterate Israel I simply can't understand why such a distinguished publication gives him a platform. He belongs on Hyde Park Corner not in the Spectator's illustrious pages.

Harold

phil
August 23rd, 2010 2:23pm
Andrex
August 23rd, 2010 11:28am check your name on wikipedia it may explain why you keep sending....... ---I cant say it

?

Andrei - the Russian form of Andrew.

Is this one of Phil's ignorant blunders that never get acknowledged or one of Phil's ignorant attempts at ridicule?

phil

Harold
August 23rd, 2010 4:06pm Yes harold-it is my "mission" to ensure that those that post like you and your mates are not treated as serious people -As usual you and those like you have invaded a thread ,meant for the purpose of thanking Mel for all she does to ensure that the truth is printed in at least one place ,and demeaned it by your propaganda . I for one will not stand idly by whilst hatred and lies are spread .
-------------
If you are made to feel foolish it is at least better than the misery you cause others by the untruths you send here .If indeed only one person believes what you write it is one too many ,perhaps andrei is one of those and if so he will have to put up with the discomfort caused by your influence .I can assure you that I have many more things to do than writing here and watching what you people send ,but I will endure it as a necessary duty ,I look forward to MELS return to the fray and with her, the usual posters who will let you know what they think of your efforts.
-------------------
.My dream harold is peace for all in the middle east with justice for both Israel and the Palestinians ,together with a life of happiness and prosperity ,that will never happen whilst those like you ensure a climate of hate .Your friend lindsay fools nobody ,nor do the others who come and go with different names but the same message -if you do not like what I have told you ,there is an alternative and I am sure you will know what that is .As for your "protection" of andrei -he does not need it, just let him learn the truth.

Augustus

phil - Harold must be thick:

"Andrex is a British brand of toilet roll..."

And remember, these aren't scampering puppies, neither are they huggable. Tee hee!

Harold

Phil
"thanking Mel for all she does to ensure that the truth is printed"

Let me remind you: it was stated here (from a "reliable" source) that a commando had been disembowelled; it was stated here that the commando was dead; it was stated here that no-one had asserted that the commando was dead; and it was stated here that the dead commando was recovering. And you have the gall to talk about the "truth" and your "duty"!

And, as if that were not enough, you have the impertinence to talk about "peace" - if only the wicked Palestinians would stop forcing the Israeli settler state to keep killing them to protect what it has taken!

And finally I get your joke, which was too subtle and refined for me, but just pitched precisely for Augustus - you comically confuse Andrei's name with the product called Andrex. Oh, I get it now, oh ha ha ha ha ha ha

Wit, intellignece, and integrity - all lacking.

sleeping dolls

Phil: "invaded a thread"?

Your brave defence reminds me of Corporal Jones. Keep up the good work!

phil

Augustus
August 23rd, 2010 8:29pm -you were flattering harold -but really do we care what he thinks ?he only attracts buffoons like the dolly man and the puppy ,and they are good for a giggle :)

Augustus

Phil - I agree with you entirely, and it is unfortunate that Melanie's courtyard attracts such buffoons. The only
plus point is that they cannot be said capable of finding much of a following.

Carl

What you don't know is that the "Commando" was called Lazurus.

phil

Carl
August 24th, 2010 3:37pm -Blimey where have you been -risen from the dead?--Your absence has been noted and particularly the lack of good wishes for MELS hols -we were all so worried that something awful had happened to you and that you had been struck dumb ,or whatever the equivalent is when writing on threads.
----
We have missed your witty repartee,the love and kindness that exudes from your every word ,-One needs the clinical analysis of everyday events that you provide and we have had to make do with harold !!!!-I am sure MEL will be relieved when she gets back that you are still with us to give balance and your innate common sense to all the problems that beset us .Together with the lovely lindsey,incredible harold and their two apprentices dolly and andy ,you provide many of us with great fun and I feel sure I may offer thanks on behalf of the many who have missed you .
---
Please forgive the intrusion carl ,we will all have nothing to read until MEL gets back ,so I soldier on :)

sleeping dolls

And Augustus is private Pike.

~ Nightflyer ~

Phil, you talk with some smarts. My name is Nightflyer-I'm an American Soldier mate. My friends call me Night. I've spent my time sandsurfing with some lads from the UK and we've spit sand together with best of them. We're a young bunch with combat experience and taking our experience to the next level. I'm currently working with some Warrior Mentors to achive my Operator assessment.

My friends from the UK are doing the same. ;-)anyways, you sound like you could teach a class at the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School. If you provide pints..We sit in.lol.

You still active or retired? anyways, nice to meet ya mate.

Night

phil

~ Nightflyer ~
August 25th, 2010 1:22am good to hear from you and ,respect for the job you are doing .I do not think I can teach anybody skills but I can stand up for what I believe is right and that includes our relationship with our ally ,America -I do not know how we could get along without you ,(cue for the usual idiots to sneer no doubt )

phil

sleeping dolls
August 24th, 2010 5:51pm

"And Augustus is private Pike."
---
From the lack of content we receive from you ,what do you think we should assume you are ? Some here are referred to as useful idiots -methinks that would flatter you ,sarcasm being known as the lowest form of wit .Do try harder ,clever insults can amuse but stupidity is unforgivable .

Bored housewife.

Phil, why do you keep responding to Andre, just ignore his comments and he wont keep replying. He talks the biggest lot of rubbish and you keep encouraging him. Give it a rest now.

Andrei

phil
August 25th, 2010 11:50am

"From the lack of content we receive from you ,what do you think we should assume"

Totally oblivious! Only "content" in all your contributions here one singly assertion - and that one FALSE! All rest puerile insults and giggling at back of class with rest of dunces.

phil

Bored housewife.
August 25th, 2010 12:24pm
-------
I do understand and appreciate your advice ,but I am just having fun at their expense -it is they who look so foolish ,so whilst Mel is away we can all keep the spirit alive ,let the buffoons know what we think of them and save falling asleep :)-Enjoy the break it will become more serious again very soon I am sure .

phil

Andrex
August 25th, 2010 1:14pm -one of your best posts ,but you did mean obvious didn`t you? not oblivious .It will soon be time for MEL to come back,along with the intelligent contributors, and then we can ignore you ,you should feel much better then .

John Holland

The contributers to this site are more intolerant of disagreement or contrary views than those on any blog I have ever come across.
Why is that?

phil

John Holland
August 25th, 2010 5:50pm-you need a sense of humour -it will help you to understand :)

sleeping dolls

Phil: main reason for lack of content on this site is the previously mentioned and highly selective (some would say biased) moderation policy.

Moderator: how about a bit of transparency? What are your criteria? Or is it, as I suspect, either completely arbitrary, or worse, based on levels of sycophancy?

John Holland: Good question. Maybe they don't like it up them.

phil

sleeping dolls
August 25th, 2010 7:16pm --------"John Holland: Good question. Maybe they don't like it up them"""".----Sounds like you are an expert in that dolly -it accounts for a lot of what you have said -and there has been a warning on TV this week ,you are leading a risky lifestyle .I don,t think you will get any customers here dolly ,but who knows some of your chums may be interested ,ugh most distasteful .
--------
Come back very soon MEL this thread is going downhill,there will be adverts from rent boys soon .

Harold

It is worth repeating in the off-chance the moderator accepts the implicit criticism: Phil's latest tawdry attempt at what he (along with all the other ignorant bigots down the years)would like us to believe is "just a bit of fun" - an example of "humour" - demonstrates clearly how foolish we have been to take notice of the stuff he emits.

phil

Harold
August 26th, 2010 5:03pm -sorry you do not like it harold -you and your pals are not partial to the truth ,but we will never again let you walk all over us.Lies will be shown for what they are ,along with distortions and the rewriting of history .On these threads you must take your chance as to who will believe your nonsense ,and if you are seen as a fool so be it -I will take my chance along with you .

John Holland

Phil- A sense of humour?
Oh yes, I've just had a hernia laughing. There's an underlying atmosphere of nastiness and almost pathological intolerance to this site that discredits the Spectator.

phil

"""John Holland
August 7th, 2010 6:28pm

your wrote ----- "Adam B.- You're right, any form of criticism is indeed synonymous with
irrational and obsessive hatred.
That is an excellent premise with which to frame any debate. Anyone who suggests otherwise is worse than a Nazi."------------I WROTE ,,OR maybe just a smart alec mr hollamd?Adam B although undoubtedly biased is usually right ,can we say the same about your comments?"""" YOU DID NOT ANSWER .
------------------------
John Holland
August 27th, 2010 2:00pm -Do you remember the unpleasant remark you made and do you think you may be responsible at least in part for the nastiness that occurs here ? Do you realise that one side is always accusatory and the other is defending itself ?-This thread as I have said more than once was meant to thank MEL and wish her a good holiday ,it became more than that due to the disgraceful remarks that were sent in by those who did not wish her well ,and yes I did deal with them !

John Holland

phil- what I said was merely paraphrasing, albeit in a slightly sarcastic tone, what has been said on this site, with it's absurdly frequent recourse to likening anyone who disagrees wit its pet theories to Hitler, Nazi Germany and the Holocaust.
And you may call it humour, but your sneering and irrelevant innuendoes about Dolly's bedroom habits is nastyness, pure and simple.

As to my not replying to your question; firstly, it's a pretty odd question- "Adam B's usually right, are you?". Er..sometimes?

Secondly, as several people have pointed out, it's very hard to get contrary opinions published on this site. After a few attempts I usually have to give up. Which brings me back again to my first point; why is this site so unable to engage with rational disagreement?

phil

John Holland
August 27th, 2010 5:38pm -I have no doubt that your comments were rejected because they were either rude or an attack on a person.I have been rejected on occasion and usually I have known it would probably be so .Sometimes it is hard to contain oneself when one reads the hatred that is sent here ,and you should put yourself in the shoes of those that receive these attacks and think again whether you would be such a saint. I suspect you would not.

Rip Van Winkle

John Holland @ August 27th 2010 5:38pm

What's this about Dolly? From glasshouses to bedrooms - my word!

Rip Van Winkle

Phil @ August 27th 2010 7:07pm

Like you, my comments have at times, been axed and, like you, have realised why. The "why" would have been my unsuccessful effort at moderation and thank the bl--dy whatever it is we have a moderator.

Good comment, thank you phil.

sleeping dolls

Rip Van Winkle - Why don't you save some of your glass house jibes for Corporal Jones - who was, after all, the one who said: "learn to write English and to spell if you wish to send insults". Also, reading sexual innuendo into perfectly innocent remarks is understandable (if annoying) in an adolescent; in an older man it is surely a matter of some concern. Never mind, though, Jonesy. Don't panic!

Andrei

Rip van Winkle has gone one better than Phil. Phil achieved one attempt at a statement of fact (unfortunately false). He had no attempts at an argument. Rip van Winkle has had no attempts at an argument. And no attempts at statement of fact. He has matched Phil only in "humour" and mutual appreciation.

phil

sleeping dolls
August 29th, 2010 1:45pm There is nothing innocent in either you or your remarks ,,They were plain filthy ,and only ignorance could explain them ,so please do not attempt to excuse them -your input here has been both childish and useless .Perhaps dealing with grown ups is not your scene sonny .

sleeping dolls

Phil - please explain why you think a catchphrase from a fifty year old sit com, much beloved in this country, is worthy of your "grown up" conclusions. Perhaps you don't know the series? In which case your ignorance explains it all, and I forgive you.

phil

sleeping dolls
August 29th, 2010 4:40pm I seek no forgiveness from you ,your words were meant as filth and were received a such ,all you have achieved here is to attract the attention of the buffoons and afford a little amusement until you descended into filth .Your short moment in the limelight is in tandem with andrex ,now how does that make you feel ?
-------------------------
-Your writing reminds me of a character known to those with intelligence as a former student of oxbridge whose future is already well in his past .

sleeping dolls

I think I'm just going to ignore Philths first paragraph.

But Wikipedia entry for Corporal Jones is quite revealing: "Jones is known for a number of eccentric traits, such as using long, rambling explanations and anecdotes whenever he wants to make a point (which could usually be summed up in a sentence anyway). He is also invariably one step behind the rest of the platoon in any drill manoeuvre." Sound familiar?

By the way, is there one of "those with intelligence" out there who could explain what on Earth Corporal Jones is banging on about in his second paragraph?

John Holland

Phil, Rip; the editorial policy of this site might not allow swear words, but as far as I can remember, none of my disallowed comments contained any.
They were simply disagreeing with the general opinion of the site. As my last, disallowed, comment on this particular subject was.
Moderating out abuse is fine; censoring disagreement on a site like this smacks of intellectual desperation.
I hope the moderator appreciates the irony of editing out comments complaining of his/her policy of over-sensitive editing.(I realise that last point will ensure its non-publication.)

Rose

You are missed! Thanks for all your very hard work. Hope you are able to really relax and benefit from your break.

phil

John Holland
August 29th, 2010 7:26pm well you got it wrong there :) --Personally I am more than happy to hear opinions that are different than mine but not when they are abusive and in some cases obviously racist -I have actually objected strongly to what I consider right wing racism on the CH WALL -I put my opinions and they put theirs ,little is moderated ,but this thread is far more civilised ,it also allows for lots of nonsense as I am sure you will have noticed but its limits are better observed .
----------------------
You will be well aware that Mel,s main agenda is supportive of Israel and those that post here will not tolerate the nasty comments ,usually utterly untrue, from certain parties, and that is where you will have noticed nastiness occurring .I can only suggest if anyone wants to post unfair criticism ,they will be met with writers who will disagree with them -I call that debate ,those that post like your dolly/andrex will be treated in the same supercilious manner that he/she wishes to engage in -Just try writing facts pleasantly and you may get a nice surprise.

--------------------------

My impression is that most of those who engage here are both educated ,caring and considerate ,and they appreciate the comments of fair minded writers ,the others will have to take their chances .It is sad that you see it as intolerance ,I would suggest it is anger at the lies and insults that are sent here by a few with an agenda that is never admitted .Now I hope Mel will soon be back and we can get on with matters of importance rather than the rubbish that I have felt compelled to deal with like the stuff sent by a person ,who I am sure would have infuriated Jeffrey Deaver with the use of his book title as his /her pseudonym .

phil

Rose
August 29th, 2010 9:32pm -Thank goodness somebody has remembered what this thread was for .you are a star.

sleeping dolls

A few weeks ago I asked a question about the troublesome forced eviction of Bedouin Arabs from somewhere in Israel, and was kindly directed to various sources of information for which I thank the poster - I learned that the issue was far from the way it was initially presented in the media. In the same spirit I ask the experts here to explain Rabbi Ovadia Yosef. He seems to be a very influential and senior establishment figure who has called for the annihilation of Arabs.

"It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable," is the quote I read, eerily and worryingly similar to the crazed utterings you get from Ahmadinejad. Is he the Israeli equivalent? Does he have much support in Israel?

Miranda Rose Smith

Dear Ms. Phillips: Glad to see you're back from your vacation. I hope you had a wonderful, relaxing time.
Your article on the murder of Gareth Williams, may he rest in peace, was brilliant, as most of your articles are, but I have one small question, perhaps a childish one, one detail I want clarified.
A "hold-all" is what? A big tote bag?
Again, welcome back and l'shanah tova.

Augustus

M.R.S - Yes, an interesting article in the Mail by M.P. on Gareth Williams. A holdall is indeed a large bag made of cloth
or leather with a zippered opening, used a lot for carrying
sports equipment. It is indeed a mystery what happened here, and that the cause of death appears not to have been identified. It certainly seems likely that he was murdered for his job rather than trying to make something else out of it.

Kiwi

Sleeping Dolls - a little rudimentary research wouldn't go amiss - Rabbi Ovadia Yosef is neither a member of Knesset, a member of the Government nor an appointed cabinet minister.
Shas, the party he is associated with is only the 4th largest member of the coalition.
FYI: Likud 27 mandates - Yisrael Beitaynu 15 mandates - Labor 13 mandates - Shas 11 mandates - Habayit Hayehudi 3 mandates.
Ovadia Yosef's spiritual authority is limited to essentially the supporters of his party and nowhere else.
Ovadia Yosef is famous for making extreme statements that have in many ways turned him into a laughing-stock. For example, "The six million Holocaust victims were reincarnations of the souls of sinners, people who transgressed and did all sorts of things that should not be done. They had been reincarnated in order to atone." Following Hurricane Katrina in 2005, Rabbi Yosef blamed the tragedy on the Godlessness of New Orleans, on U.S. support for the Gaza disengagement, and on a general lack of Torah (i.e. Jewish religious study) study in the area.
*The Shas party does not support compulsory military service for Yeshiva students and therefore only a limited number of followers are in any position to be incited. It is only marginally represented over the Green Line.
Rabbi Ovadia Yosef does not speak for Israel, not even the Palestinians take him seriously.

George

@sleeping dolls August 30th, 2010 1:26am

You are quoting remarks from a sermon Rabbi Yosef made in 2001. He was referring to Arab terrorists, not to all Arabs.

To answer your question: Rabbi Yosef is very influential in the field of Judaic jurisprudence, but he is certainly not an establishment figure and nor is he the equivalent of the President of Iran. Rabbi Yosef is a private individual and as such is entitled to hold whatever views he wants.
The President of Iran was elected twice to his office, and as such he represents the Iranian people. There is a big difference between a private individual (however influential) calling for terrorists to be killed and the twice-elected President of a country calling for another country to be "wiped off the map."

phil

sleeping dolls
August 30th, 2010 1:26am - You have at last written something which requires a proper answer , so I will offer you my opinion for what it is worth ,which is that the rabbi is a racist lunatic who represents a very small but unfortunate influence in a coalition .He does not represent the overwhelming majority of Israelis or Jews ,he disgraces us ,He will never have his way and hopefully he will be dealt with in much the same way as the cat loving lady in our midst ,who does not represent any of we Brits either .You may have divined my opinion of coalitions ,one of which we now suffer under ,due solely to the naive , who feel that punishing various parties will help their future .
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The" rabbi" will find out how wrong he is in the fullness of time when he meets our maker ,as will dinner jacket -I think they will find the restaurant rather too hot to be comfortable ,and the swimming pool devoid of water .

phil

Just a follow up to my post to sleeping dolls -an extract from todays Jerusalem Post ----------------
-----------------------
Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu rushed on Sunday evening to distance himself and his government from Rabbi Ovadia Yosef’s death wish for Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and the Palestinian people, after the flood of angry Palestinian reactions to the comments.

“These words do not reflect the approach of Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, nor the position of the government of Israel,” the Prime Minister’s Office said in a statement.
----------------
I hope when Mel is back she will make it clear how appalled Jewish people will be by this disgusting man who calls himself a rabbi ,a title he is unfit to wear .

Harold

The late Sephardic chief rabbi was treated by the Israeli establishment with the utmost respect both in life and death. He was, as I understand, an exceptional scholar and teacher, and much loved for the pastoral care he offered. Nevertheless, he expressed some shocking opinions. This rabbi Yosef is not representative of Israelis and should not be taken to speak for them; but nor is he an isolated instance - there is a significant body of extremists and they have significant influence. This should be recognised.

Jack R

Meanwhile, below the BBC's radar, but not Sky's:

"France's first lady Carla Bruni has been branded a 'prostitute' by Iran's hardline media after she expressed support for an Iranian woman facing death by stoning for adultery."

(-from 'Sky News'._

Harold

Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira. Rabbi Yosef Elitzur. I understand the Israeli authorities are getting a bit concerned about their influence among settlers (but nevertheless have given them U$300000 over the last few years). - Not the odd isolated extremist, but a significant group with influence in Israel.

George

Harold - Rabbi Yosef is not the late anything, he is very much alive. Also, please remember to show some respect and capitalise his title of Rabbi.
Also, Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira and Rabbi Yosef Elitzur do not represent anything that even approaches a "significant group with influence in Israel." Believe me - I live in Israel.

Miranda Rose Smith

Augustus
August 30th, 2010 12:58pm
M.R.S - Yes, an interesting article in the Mail by M.P. on Gareth Williams. A holdall is indeed a large bag made of cloth

Dear Augustus: Thanks.

Regarding the controversy over Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef, folks, if I understand correctly, he called for the death of Mahmoud Abbas, a man who has repeatedly called for the destruction of Israel.

Harold

George,
The late sephardic chief rabbi is very much dead.

And respect has to be earned.

And the two rabbis I mentioned are by no stretch of the imagination the only ones. I am not clear whether you are making the claim that these two are simply isolated instances of bigotry.

George

@Harold

Which Sephardi Chief Rabbi are you talking about? Rabbi Ovadia Yosef (whose recent remarks seem to have caused so much upset) was Sephardi Chief Rabbi from 1973 - 1983. He is very much alive and will celebrate his 90th birthday next month.

Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu, who succeeded Rabbi Yosef as Sephardi Chief Rabbi, died 8 weeks ago. Could it be that you are confusing them?

Writing Rabbi with a capital letter when using it as a title is the same as using any other title. Would you refer to pope Benedict? The respect is for the title, not for the person who carries it (and yes, it is possible to make this differentiation).

No, I don't *think* that Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira and Rabbi Yosef Elitzur are isolated cases. I *know* it. And they are not guilty of bigotry, but of publishing the wrong thing at the wrong time. Their book discusses the hypothetical issues of how a Jew should relate to the non-Jewish population that may be operating as a fifth column t a time of war.

Miranda Rose Smith

I am not clear whether you are making the claim that these two are simply isolated instances of bigotry.

Dear Harold: Wanting people dead who want you dead is not my idea of bigotry.

Harold

George,
I am suggesting you read what Rabbi Eliyahu said, as evidence that Rabbi Josef is not an isolated aberration. I am also suggesting you read more widely in what rabbis have been saying for decades. Am I insinuating that they represent the whole rabbinate (if that is the correct term)? Absolutely not. Are those like Rabbis Eliyahu, Yosef, Shapira and Elizur a significant group within the rabbinate and the settler community? Absolutely.

A few weeks ago, a recently deceased Muslim cleric was vilified here. His remarks were much more nuanced than those you try to explain away. Yet again, double standards.

(Thank you for educating me on titles. I intended no disrespect to the office, only the man who as holder of that office could express such opinions and by virtue of his office appear to endow them with some authority - and even then I intended no disrespect by the use of lower case. I apologise for my ignorant error.)

Harold

On Rabbi Shapira and Rabbi Elitzur (who are, to be clear, at the extreme end of the spectrum):

They write that Jews have the right to kill gentiles in any situation in which “a non-Jew’s presence endangers Jewish lives” even if the gentile is “not at all guilty for the situation that has been created”. The book sanctions the killing of non-Jewish children and babies: “There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us, and in such a situation they may be harmed deliberately, and not only during combat with adults.” The rabbis suggest that harming the children of non-Jewish leaders is justified if it is likely to bring pressure to bear on them to change policy. The authors also advocate committing “cruel deeds to create the proper balance of terror” and treating all members of an “enemy nation” as targets for retaliation, even if they are not directly participating in hostile activities.

Is this representative of their opinions? Or isolated aberrations? Certainly of somewhat wider scope than your description allows. And under no circumstances justifiable.

Harold

One must consider killing even babies, who have not violated the seven Noahide laws, because of the future danger that will be caused if they are allowed to grow up to be as wicked as their parents.” - Where else in modern history has this pretext been used? And still you defend these creatures who "say the wrong thing at the wrong time"?

Miranda Rose Smith

The Arab states have been calling for the destruction of Israel since before the State was founded. Calls for the destruction of Israel and the extermination of the Jews are broadcast daily on state-sponsored Arab television stations. The Palestinian Authority endlessly incites against Israel, often using Israeli electricity to broadcast the incitement. The Israelis stand endlessly willing to negociate with the now-so-called "Palestinians," who are historically, culturally and linguistically Arabs, even as the rockets continue to be fired into Gaza. But let one Israeli, who has long supported land-for-peace deals, come along and say "Mahmoud Abbas wants me dead, I want him dead," and the Palestinian authority howls about incitement to genocide, which is like John Goodman calling somebody "Fatso," and says "We can't negociate if you have people talking like that."

Miranda Rose Smith

The President of Iran was elected twice to his office, and as such he represents the Iranian people.

Dear George: I agree with everything you said except
that. Somehow, I suspect the elections were not exactly free or fair.

George

@MRS

I agree with your suspicions about the Iranian Presidential elections. However, I still maintain that President Ahmedinejad is more representative of the official line of Iran than Rabbi Ovadia Yosef is of Israel.

Augustus

Clever boy Harold comes along on Melanie's blog, incensed by the spritual leader of the Shas party Rabbi Ovadia Yosef's sermon last week, and talks of 'double standards'. I'm sure
he's been salivating ever since.
But on August 18th, Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, and Prime Minister Salaam
Fayyad, actually honoured one of the planners of the September
5th, 1972 Munich Massacre in which eleven Israeli athletes were murdered, and not one of the media outlets who covered the Rabbi's remarks with such relish had a word to say about it. When it comes to double standards there couldn't be a starker illustration. And, btw,
although the party he founded is in the coalition, Yosef holds no position in the Israeli government, and the Prime Minister rejected the remarks. But in contrast, Abbas and Fayyed, who appear to be labelled 'moderate' by the media
are the top leaders of the PA.
And the Harold's of this world talk of incitement. Incitement to what? Genocide? If anyone's totting up tirades and incitements it's a no-brainer whose winning that little race.

Andrei

Augustus
Double standard between response to sayings of Muslim cleric and of Judaic cleric - this very explicit statement - "A few weeks ago a recently deceased Muslim cleric..." and so on.To your retort it could be said, you talk of Black September - they can equally talk of Stern Gang and widespread terrorism of Yishuv.

It is disappointing you respond to reading statments of rabbis in this manner - unreflecting, automatic loyalty - defence of Israel does not need to be defence of fanatics.

(Will you explain how you can hold contradictories both true on previous thread, or will you duck that too?)

phil

Harold
August 31st, 2010 11:34am -Ít seems to me that as in the past you are just looking to make trouble ,and only for the sake of it -You have been told countless times that the massive majority of both Jews and Israelis condemn the Rabbi,s remarks ,Do you think we should all condemn Christianity for the sins of hitler and his filthy henchmen ,I hope not ! because that would be as stupid as the messages you keep sending here .
------------------------
Can I hope you will send a message absolving Judaism and the Israeli government from the words of similar stupidity that were written by the ridiculous Rabbi ?-If not ,I hope you will not bother us again with your insults which seem to this writer to be your passion,and a passion which must sorely test our moderator .

phil

sleeping dolls
August 30th, 2010 1:26am -You asked a question and you received an answer ,since when we have not had the courtesy of even one word .It does make one wonder what you are up to here ,you have managed to criticise so many things and yet so far sarcasm has been the only attribute you have managed to display .It would be a pleasant surprise to hear from you that you have had a fair answer to your question .

Augustus

Andrei - Nevertheless, top leaders honoured a mass murderer. Would you do that? There's something rotten in the the (non)state of the Palestinians. There were plenty of fanatics in Russia too btw.

Harold

05.30.2007 | The Jerusalem Post

By Matthew Wagner , THE JERUSALEM POST

All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings.

The letter, published in Olam Katan [Small World], a weekly pamphlet to be distributed in synagogues nationwide this Friday, cited the biblical story of the Shechem massacre (Genesis 34) and Maimonides’ commentary (Laws of Kings 9, 14) on the story as proof texts for his legal decision.

According to Jewish war ethics, wrote Eliyahu, an entire city holds collective responsibility for the immoral behavior of individuals. In Gaza, the entire populace is responsible because they do nothing to stop the firing of Kassam rockets.

The former chief rabbi also said it was forbidden to risk the lives of Jews in Sderot or the lives of IDF soldiers for fear of injuring or killing Palestinian noncombatants living in Gaza.

Eliyahu could not be reached for an interview. However, Eliyahu’s son, Shmuel Eliyahu, who is chief rabbi of Safed, said his father opposed a ground troop incursion into Gaza that would endanger IDF soldiers. Rather, he advocated carpet bombing the general area from which the Kassams were launched, regardless of the price in Palestinian life.

“If they don’t stop after we kill 100, then we must kill a thousand,” said Shmuel Eliyahu. “And if they do not stop after 1,000 then we must kill 10,000. If they still don’t stop we must kill 100,000, even a million. Whatever it takes to make them stop.”

In the letter, Eliyahu quoted from Psalms. “I will pursue my enemies and apprehend them and I will not desist until I have eradicated them.”

Eliyahu wrote that “This is a message to all leaders of the Jewish people not to be compassionate with those who shoot [rockets] at civilians in their houses.”

jim comfort

wonderful to have you back, even if you are not doing your diary yet. Have a great holiday.

sleeping dolls

Phil - thankyou for your response, and to the many others. Replies seem to fall into two camps: those that unequivocally condemn the Rabbi (which was refreshing to hear), and those that seek to excuse him. I confess I find it difficult to understand how a religious leader, regardless of influence, could say such things. We have heard it from some Muslims, and now we hear it from some Jews - although from what Harold says this is nothing new. Why is it these two religions can produce such nut cases - alongside such stars as Lord Sachs and the gentle and humorous Imam who I had the pleasure to meet the other week? Obviously very wide churches indeed.

Augustus

Harold - "Eliyahu could not be reached for an interview..."
Nor will he again because Rabbi Eliyahu passed away on June 7th this year at the age of 81. Let him rest in peace. What exactly are you trying to prove? He also had many virtues.

phil

sleeping dolls
August 31st, 2010 10:13pm -Well if we wait long enough intelligent people manage to speak civil words to one another ,its a good start .I will say that these so called religious leaders seem able to say whatever they want ,some represent hardly anyone and sadly many talk absolute tosh ,so do some Imams ,but like many descent and intelligent Rabbis ,many also try to instil a sensible way of life for their flock and interpret the Koran in a peaceful and progressive manner .Those ridiculous Rabbis from a time long gone past its sell by date ,represent people who have very little influence other than their own flock -the government do not act on their words ,they are an embarrassment to most Israelis and Jews alike.
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Perhaps now you may appreciate why I do not react kindly to those who stir trouble between the various faiths -I want peace and justice for all and I have said this here many times in the past -I cannot abide those like harold who feed the fires of hatred and prolong the peace that we so desire .

George

@Harold - Please explain to us why you posted a three year old newspaper article. Is it to show us that the late Rabbi Eliyahu is an extremist? Personally I see nothing extreme or immoral when during a war, you try and kill your enemies so that they stop trying to kill you. The primary job of an army is to kill as many of the enemy as possible,swiftly and relentlessly, until that enemy surrenders. The secondary job of an army is to perform its primary role with minimum losses to itself.

Harold

I do not know whether the blithe exoneration here of Yosef, Eliyahu pere et fils, Shapira, Elitzur etc. (as one of Shapira's students pointed out, all the way back to Maimonides) beggars belief or is wholly unsurprising. It certainly strips those who perpetrate it of any moral authority to criticise the Palestinians for their attempts at resistance - even the atrocious crimes which the rest of us can justifiably condemn. Nor is the silence of those who are so quick to squeal at the more outlandish sayings of self-appointed Palestinian spokesmen much better.

Harold

sleeping dolls
August 31st, 2010 10:13pm

There are indeed those like Phil whose instincts are sound but who for whatever reason refuse to see that the standards they rightly require in the treatment of Israel also apply in the state of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. Then there are those who profess to see nothing wrong in authorising the killing of babies and reprisals on civilians. However, the main point is that they all pretend that any such controversial statement is the work of a maverick or isolated individual with no influence: there is a body of opinion with a firm foundation in Halakhic law that justifies these statements, and those who profess to believe them represent a significant portion of religious Jews in Israel with significant political influence. It is therefore worthwhile condemning these statements and declaring that they should have no place in any body politic.

Augustus

Harold - I wasn't aware that Halachic law "authorises the killing of babies and reprisals against civilians". Jews have been known throughout the ages to have adapted themselves to different circumstances, and have even contributed in large measure to the modern concept of the secular state. The same cannot be said for Muslims under Sharia law.

George

@ Harold September 1st, 2010 10:58am

1)there is a body of opinion with a firm foundation in Halakhic law that justifies these statements, and those who profess to believe them represent a significant portion of religious Jews in Israel with significant political influence.

The first part of this statement is true, the second part is totally erroneous. Where is your evidence for the "significant political influence"? You haven't got any because it doesn't exist.

2) It is therefore worthwhile condemning these statements and declaring that they should have no place in any body politic.

What an arrogant statement! Since when are you the final arbiter of what constitutes free speech in Israel? For that we have an independent judiciary that has a reputation of being one of the finest in the free, democratic world.

Also Harold, when are you going to judge the Palestinians by the same standards you demand from Israel?

phil

Harold
September 1st, 2010 10:58am -Kindly never speak for me ,you know nothing of my thoughts other than I support the state of Israel ,wish for peace between the two nations and despise those like you who try so hard to cause a rift between them .You saw yesterday the difference between the looneys of hamas and those that desire that peace -in fact a claim of a heroic!!! action .Are you JEWISH ?and how do you get these ridiculous facts ,I have no doubt from an anti -Israeli web site which have no answers to the questions I have posed you .If any of us were to try to post on your channels ,we would be barred ,that is only part of the difference between us harold .You write untruths because you can!! this a democracy with a fee press unlike the places you so admire. You disgust me but I am sure you are well aware of that at least if nothing much else .

I see you are trying for support from sleeping dolls ,but I guess he now realises what chicanery you are up to and how desperate you are for allies ,do not waste your time here harold you will only get buffoons to agree with you ,people with only half a brain can easily see through you .I would like to say more to you harold but I do not want to make the life of the moderator even more difficult than it already is .

phil

Augustus
September 1st, 2010 12:20pm Was it not Abraham so many thousands of years ago that was the last Jew to consider killing a baby ?,in fact his own ,and was it not only yesterday that the abominations that harold supports killed a Jewish child ,an unborn one at that .Did he post a word of regret ?What a sick mind this man displays .

Augustus

Phil - You said it, not me! Harold tries his hardest to legitimize the concept that Israel is a pariah state. It is all Israel's fault, and Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas aren't really so bad. It's the Jewish state the world needs to worry about. It seems these people can only recount the sins of Israel, and it should be fully condemned on both a theological and moral level, whilst truly racist regimes that murder their own political opponents are ignored. I don't really know what his true reasons are for this process of demonization, but one thing is certainly clear, his moral outrage serves only to further the causes and misdeeds of groups like Hezbollah and Hamas who seek Israel's destruction.

phil

Augustus
September 1st, 2010 1:35p-Have a look on the coffee house wall and see what we Jews are doing to ourselves -the lady A W K has made statements there that would fill harold,s boots with joy .saying we need more Rabbis like the crazy one ,and not one person will make a criticism of her words I know we have enemies but we do not need one of our own helping them out with truly stupid comments .I suspect she meant no harm but her tongue runs faster than her brain can cope with .I do realise I waste my time with that crowd but should I give them a free run ?-I think we all have too many awful memories of sitting back and doing nothing. I just hope she has some friends who will tell her what a silly woman she has been.

phil

I do not suppose this will shut the amazing harold up ,but here is an article from the J C yesterday ... 2+2makes 4 harold and A comes after B whatever you might say !!

"The Israeli Prime Minister has distanced himself from inflammatory remarks about Mahmoud Abbas made by Rabbi Ovadia Yosef.

The spiritual leader of the religious party Shas said in an address on Saturday that the Palestinian leader should "vanish from our world" and labelled the Palestinians as evil and bitter enemies.

The 89-year-old, who is a former Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel, also said that God should strike the Palestinians “with a plague”.

Shas is one of the parties in Israel’s ruling coalition, but Benajmin Netanyahu said Rabbi Yosef’s views did not reflect his own or those of the government.

He added: "Israel plans to take part in peace negotiations out of a desire to advance toward a peace agreement with the Palestinians that will end the conflict and ensure peace, security and good neighbourly relations between the two peoples.”

Direct talks between Israel and the Palestinians are due to begin in Washington on September 2.

A spokesman from the United States state department also criticised the comments and called them "deeply offensive".

He said: “As we move forward to relaunch peace negotiations, it is important that actions by people on all sides help to advance our effort, not hinder it."

The Zionist Federation also said they deplored the "offensive" remarks.

They added: “We support direct negotiations with the Palestinian Authority and the position of the Israeli Government as formulated by the prime mnister’s ofice."

Rabbi Yosef is no stranger to controversy. In 2005, he said that that Hurricane Katrina was “God’s retribution” for George Bush’s support of the Gaza disengagement."

Lindsay

George,
Your recent comments appear to show you to be comfortable to a surprising degree with some very unsavoury assertions.

"Their book discusses the hypothetical issues of how a Jew should relate to the non-Jewish population that may be operating as a fifth column t a time of war." To remind you, they say that if Israel considers itself at war, Jews have the right to kill gentiles in any situation in which “a non-Jew’s presence endangers Jewish lives” even if the gentile is “not at all guilty for the situation that has been created”. As you know, many in Israel consider themselves at war. I am not sure what you intend by "fifth column" - Israeli citizens as well as Palestinians in the occupied territories? But, in essence, Shapira justifies killing innocent civilians now.

Shapira et al. also say “There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us, and in such a situation they may be harmed deliberately, and not only during combat with adults.” In other words, Israel does not even need to be engaged in hostilities to be authorized by such as Shapira to kill babies.

Again, if Israel considers itself at war, Eliyahu the elder authorised blanket bombing of civilians. Eliyahu's son authorised killing as many civilians as it takes to dissuade the "enemy" from further resistance.

Do you truly support such tactics as legitimate? You will of course find support for terror bombing in certain circles in the UK and US, but killing babies and carrying out reprisals where 100 are killed, or 1000, or 100000, or 1000000...?

You sink to righteous indignation in questioning Harold's right to express the opinion freely that such pronouncements should be condemned and declared unacceptable. You will note that he does not question the rabbis' right to make the pronouncements. He only expresses shock that such as you do not seem shocked by them.

You also assert that fundamentalists have no political influence in Israel. This is astonishing, given the beliefs and behaviour of many settlers, and the nature of Israel's electoral system.

You sign off by asking pointedly why Harold does not hold the Palestinians to the same standards. Now this is silly. You do not know whether he does or not. Also, it is obscene to say "why criticise rabbis for encouraging atrocities when others encourage the other side likewise".

Your recent contributions have been disingenuous, and at best so vaguely worded as to appear to condone indefensible assertions. This is very different from your previous efforts, which as I recall presented an often informative principled defence of certain of Israel's actions. I hope you return to your previous manner.

phil

George-I hope you will not be goaded into replying to this awful woman ,she appears from time to time to look for any way to embarrass Jewish people ,she has picked, as is usual for her, extremes that bear no relation to Jewish life outside the utterings of a few crazy people ,words from a bygone age and behaviour that could never happen .Leave her be George, you and your family are worth more than a million lindsays ,even a response will get you nowhere ,she will come back with even more untruths as John Roosevelt found out .She never answers a question either ,probably because she cannot and I am sure she is sent here along with harold and others before them with differing names from the same source .We all saw yesterday what use it is to expect decency from these people ,please George leave it be .Let the souls of those four people rest in peace ,we need not demean ourselves by mixing with their supporters -shalom

Andrei

Condone outrageous incitement to atrocity and then take cover in pusillanimous silence.

phil

Andrei
September 2nd, 2010 10:37am

"Condone outrageous incitement to atrocity and then take cover in pusillanimous silence."
-----------
andrei that is the first time you have ever said anything right !! you are talking I presume about your heroes hamas who claimed a heroic action took place by slaughtering a pregnant woman and three other defenceless civilians.THEY did nor keep quiet they screamed with joy like the cowards they are -I hope you did not join them .
--------------------------------
The road to Jerusalem has been littered with the remains of the vehicles that the brave young Israelis tried to use to get through to that besieged city in 1948 ,shot upon from the hills ,civilians ,always raided by night and by your brave friends who then ran like hell .Nothing has changed andrei -just the story tellers ,like you .In spite of this I do not lay the blame on you ,you are naive and know very little ,the real blame lies with those like harold and lindsay who make it their mission to cause a rift between the unfortunate innocents on both sides .They cause the hell on earth and they know it .