Why Tony Blair remains a class act

Richard

Yeah, right. 'Mr Human Rights Act' has nothing to tell us about being tough on crime.

The man who let his Chancellor dole out money to those families he goes on about.

The man who abolished the death penalty for treason.

What happened to gun crime on Blair's watch? Oh yeah, it went up every year.

How did his 'Serious Organised Crime Agency' work out? Or ASBOs?

Clarke may be a prat out of tune with the country on law and order, but the idea that Blair is the answer is laughable.

Fiona

"particularly the poor whose lives are disproportionately made a misery by crime. If anything shows that the new Cameroon Tories don’t give a stuff about those at the bottom of the heap"

You've nailed it. Great article, Melanie.

EDDIE

Politicians can say what they really think when they are out of office. Blairs record on so many areas of policy was poor and did great harm to this over populated country that cannot now cope with pressures on public services. Wilson kept us out of the Vietnam war and perhaps he should have realised that this country can no longer fight above its weight. Cameron is also a serious disappointment. frankly, we just don't seem to make leaders any more.

rachel

Dear Melanie
I was curious to know your background after reading this piece.
Is your loyalty to Zionism or the UK?
And dont infer I am a self hating jew...that gets old.
Others should read your bio on wikipedia. Expains alot.

cyllan

so true richard.... so true.....

Colin Cumner

This man has to be the hypocrite to end all hypocrites. His regime allowed the 'dysfunctional' families he now bangs on about to profligate to the point where Britain is now regarded as a cess-pit of violence and anti-social behaviour. I wouldn't even use counterfeit money to buy his latest epistle. I would far rather donate the money to whoever is able to wipe that Cheshire grin from his face!

Simone

I agree with Melanie. Tony Blair was more Tory than the Tories. He certainly came across as patriotic, and that is something that David Cameron lacks. He failed to promote Britain during the recent foreign trips.

I still think that Boris Johnson would be a far better Prime Minister. He has the charisma and he knows how to inspire and motivate.

Jeremy

'Loyalty to Zionism or the UK???'
The old accusation of 'divided loyalties' all over again, Rachel. Still, I'm sure many of your friends are Jewish...

Neil Saunders

Blair is damaged goods, Melanie.

Leave WELL alone!

MikeF

Class, maybe. An act, certainly.

Frank P

rachel

In your eyes is it impossible to be a loyal British subject and to support and defend Israel?

As for reading 'Melanie's bio on Wiki' - why not just read her own autobio on her own blog at melaniephillips.com

Thereupon she has delineated her career and loyalties very comprehensively. And if that doesn't satisfy you, then the archives of her portfolio on her blog are available: a study of her work over the past decades will leave you in no doubt about her journalistic analytical abilities, unequalled synthesis her dogged determination to counter lies with coruscating truth. She marshals data more comprehensively than any of her counterparts in the MSM (but that is just my opinion of course). I am not a Jew but I admire her passionate determination to fight against those who wish to "wipe Israel off the face of the earth". Her work is very much in the interests of her native country, viz. the United Kingdom.
You imply that you are Jewish; do you not agree that Israel is the UK’s only true ally in the Middle East?

If you decide to answer these questions, could you also please also direct us to your own Wiki entry so that we may attempt to understand your strange question and attempt to discover where you are coming from and where your loyalties lie?

Verity

Blair pretends a concern about population and law 'n' order because he knows those get Britons' attention. But it was under Blair's watch that the Chancellor changed our ancient British law, with permission from no one, to allow polygamy and give benefits to polygamous "wives".

Herbert Thornton

I think we should take all this with a pinch of salt. Blair may give the impression that he wants Britain to become more like Singapore but what matters is whether he really believes that.

It is quite amazing how politicians can attract support by pretending to support policies that they have no intention whatsoever of implementing. An egregious example (here in Canada) of that sort of hypocrisy is that of our Prime Minister Trudeau, years ago, cynically promising to "wrestle inflation to the ground" - after which he did nothing of the kind, but instead continued to run a government that printed and spent money on a scale that put Canada teetering towards the edge of a Weimar scale inflation.

As for Cameron, is he any better? That this man should pretend to be a Conservative is manifestly absurd. Anybody who voted for his party in the belief that he had any intention of doing anything whatsoever about the grave problems of either lawful or illegal immigration or of the existential threat to Britain posed by the presence there of Islam or even about the growth of terrorism that has followed in its wake is going to be sadly disappointed.

Rebel Saint

Problem is, Blair talks a great talk. But delivered the exact opposite.

He introduced more criminal laws than almost a century of other governments ... laws that made the police pursue 'hate criminals' and 'eco-criminals' and 'euro-regulation criminals'. And no prizes for guessing which 'criminals' the police pursued most rigorously - the easy targets. If I get another 'seen a hate crime' leaflet or poster shoved through our community centre door I swear I'll commit a real crime against the idiot who wasted all the money & resources on it whilst the local estate I work on is plagued by drugs & alcohol fuelled anti-social feral youths.

And most damning of all - who is responsible for completely undermining the greatest restraint against criminality - the stable family - than NuLiebour.

I despise this snake-oil salesman & his cohorts with a passion. Thank goodness it isn't yet a crime to incite political hatred.

David Holmes

I seem to remember that one of the first young people to be caught blind drunk in public after the change in licensing laws was Blair's own son. I don;t have a weak stomach normally, but what that man and his government of crooks and hypocrites did to the country of my birth almost makes lose my lunch. He promised before his first election success, he reneged on his promises, and became one of the most blatant liars in British political history. The arrogance of a large majority government was never better displayed than by "New" Labour.

rachel

This is in reply to 'Jeremy".
Zionism is a political party and a philosophy for a Zionist state which I am sure you know.
If not, I suggest some research using google should help.
Yes, I have many jewish friends,I am jewish.
Just not a Zionist.
So please do not insult my intelligence.
Being a Zionist is a political philosophy which pertains only to the jewish race therefore ipso facto it is racist.
My grandmother and relatives died through racism.
Consequently I abhor all forms of racism.

elixelx

So Rachel you read a bio on Wiki and immediatly produce an insolent and rude non-sequitor.
Now that, you see, is the very hallmark of the self-hating Jewess! Which is what you are! How do I know? I read your bio in your words, because you are not yet on Wiki, and in any case I'm not in the least curious about you any more...
Well, you have hanged Melanie on the absurd basis that you disagree with her on a single article; and you should realise that the same fate awaits you!

Mrs Gillian Duffy

Tony Blair took the United Kingdom to war against Iraq. You think that was a good thing to have done. Therefore Tony Blair is a 'class act'.

It wasn't and he isn't.

That New Labour is currently the most authoritarian of Britain's three social democratic parties is without doubt. I have serious doubts as to whether TBs vision carried to full fruition would result in a well-ordered, efficient state like Singapore. Given his fellow travellers, the more likely authoritarian destination is Cuba.

Matthew Roberts

Rebel Saint. You have taken the words out of my mouth. Well said! Why Melanie calls this hypocrite a class act defies belief!

Imshin

Rachel, I'm not sure what your comment has to do with Ms. Phillips' post, but I must say that as an Israeli, a Jew and a Zionist, I find your definition of Zionism as a political party and a racist philosophy a bit strange.

Allow me please to put you right. Zionism is a movement that supports the right of the Jewish people to a state. Seeing as a Jewish state is already in existence, am I to understand that your being not a Zionist means you support the dismantling of said Jewish state? If this is the case, I would be interested in hearing what you suggest be done with the more than 5,700,000 Jews currently living in the Jewish state (according to the Jewish New year statistics published in Israel at the beginning of the week), once the state is dismantled? Also, do you support the violent dismantling of the state (seeing as I don't see how this can be done peacefully, given that the great majority of Israeli Jews are, in fact, Zionists and won't go quietly)? If not, how do you suggest to go about it?

Being one of those Jews, this is an interesting question for me, you understand.

Miranda Rose Smith

This is off topic, but I wish you, Ms. Phillips, and all the other Jews on this website a happy, healthy, kosher New Year.

Does ANYBODY here think Britain will EVER bring back flogging?

Raymond Douglas

What a pass we have come to, when it takes Blair to point out the bleeding obvious !Pity Blair could not have done more when he was in power ! I, too, could not bring myself to vote for the Cameron Tories for many of the reasons identified by Melanie. As a married man, and a christian social conservative, I found that I had little choice where to place my Vote. I ended up voting UKIP, if only on the grounds that they had a core reason to vote for that I actually believed in !

Tarka the Rotter

There are so many 'crimes'on the statute book that, at some point in all our lives, we will transgress and become 'criminals'. In order to be tough on crime I think you have to redefine exactly what crime is, and what it is not. Putting someone before the beak for selling a goldfish to a child is not, in my book, a heinous crime deserving a custodial sentence. When will it dawn on us that most MPs are lawyers and they make the laws - it is in their interest to keep 'em coming! Tough on murder, crimes of violence and theft, yep, absolutely. Otherwise, a massive, massive rethink is needed...

Margaret Muller-Johansson

Tony B Liar.

J. Isaacs

Well said Jeremy at 11.37pm yesterday, Frank P. at 12.15am today, elixelx at 5.45am and Imshin at 9.06am.

Neil Saunders

Yes, Miranda.

Flogging will be brought back in Britain under Sharia.

Ronnie

Miranda Rose Smith.

In this post, Melanie is flogging a dead horse - Tony Blair. Does that count?

Melanie.

What on earth brought this on?

Linda Smith

Rachel says “Being a Zionist is a political philosophy which pertains only to the jewish race therefore ipso facto it is racist.”

Setting aside the philosophical conundrum concerning defining Jews as a “race”, I wonder if Rachel objects to the 57 member States of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference defining themselves as Islamic states, or, indeed, of the UK being a Christian country.

To those who might assert that the UK is a secular country, I would ask - why, then, is it obligatory for MPs to attend the exclusively Christian prayers in order to take part in a sitting of Parliament?

Rachel seems to have got her knickers in a twist

Maya

Rachel states:-
"So please do not insult my intelligence.
Being a Zionist is a political philosophy which pertains only to the jewish race therefore ipso facto it is racist.
My grandmother and relatives died through racism.
Consequently I abhor all forms of racism."

Do you support Palestianism? i.e a state for the Palestinians? Do you agree that Palestinanism is a racist ideology? A Palestinian state for so-called Palestinians, (no Jews allowed)

I would suggest that your argument is flawed. It is anti-Zionism which is racist, in that the ONLY people not allowed to have a nation are the Jews. In the words of Juda Pearl "Anti-Zionism earns its racist character from denying the Jewish people what it grants to other collectives (e.g. Spanish, Palestinians), namely, the right to nationhood and self-determination"

Neil Saunders

To Matthew Roberts

Melanie calls Blair a "class act" not for the benefit of conservatives (and Old Labour types) in Britain, who actually know something about him, but for her Neocon allies in the United States (whose good opinion Blair so sedulously cultivated in defiance both of international law and UK national interest, not to say common sense and decency).

Although I broadly endorse Melanie's social and cultural conservatism, and admire the forthrightness with which she has argued for it, I think she has badly undermined her own moral authority in allying herself to Blair, the Neocons, and their adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan, which are inexcusable on either pragmatic or moral grounds.

wrinkled weasel

I refer you to the astute comment by Rebel Saint.

Sheesh, Blair was the inventor of the "All fur coat and no knickers" combo.

He can say what he likes now. It's just a pity he did bugger all about it in 13 years of power.

Augustus

Personally, I admired Tony Blair
for the way he was determined to keep Britain a close ally of the USA throughout the whole Iraq imbroglio, which at least demonstrated a very conservative understanding of the nature of political power and its relation to the ability to apply force. Compare that stance with that of France, which almost seemed determined to provoke the Americans into an illegal invasion.

Miranda Rose Smith

Neil Saunders
September 7th, 2010 12:30pm
Yes, Miranda.

Flogging will be brought back in Britain under Sharia.

Dear Mr. Saunders: I thought the same thing myself.

Joe Strummer

Tony Blair is natirally just getting more right-wing as he gets older,particularly on issues such as law and order, and especially as he now has a lot of his own personal loot and properties to protect. Welcome to the real world, Tony.

John A. Davison

Tony Blair will be remembered as one of Britain's greatest statesmen just as George W. Bush will be remembered as one of ours.

phil

May I say to all of you who have responded to rachel ,to relax, the lady has written a load of nonsense and it should be treated as such -in fact best ignored because it is ridiculous -if I were to say black is white or 2+2 is 5 I would not get a reply and what she has said is just as daft .Melanie is so obviously a loyal Brit who supports the state of Israel (our ally)as I believe do 100 percent of the Jewish citizens of the Uk -enough said -
-------
Now although he may not welcome it I will say thanks to Frank P for the support he has offered here ,we do not often see eye to eye ,but right is right and his words were both dignified and welcome .

Mrs Gillian Duffy

John A. Davison
September 7th, 2010 4:07pm

Sheesh, that's not even 'irony' is it?

Neil Saunders, September 7th, 2010 2:10pm, hit the nail on the head. Mel's got one eye on that lucrative US lecture circuit. I can listen to Mel's argument, even sympathise and agree with some of it but TONY BLAIR? Seriously?

This is the man who's strategic genius includes open the gates to 3 million plus migrants in just a few short years, many from Islamic countries, whilst simultaneously going to war against two of those countries?

The only thing that Blair is 'class' at is listening to what everyone else is saying and dressing it up as what he thought all along. The idea that he 'got it a bit wrong' on asylum is totally laughable. Every time the subject came up he quoted non-existent obligations under the Geneva Convention or some EU dictat that made it okay for the French to sanction a forward operating base outside the Channel Tunnel.

He was and is the most accomplished neo-con artist we've ever seen. The only good thing about having GB as hapless Prime Minister was that this clown was banished to the Middle East for a few years.

If anyone remembers him as one of 'Britain's greatest statesmen' it won't be in Britain, where he is universally reviled by all shades of political opinion.

Vomit.

Herbert Thornton

I think most of the indignation we're reading stems from Melanie's referring to Tony Blair's performance as a "class act".

Blair's performance was certainly an act. And in the sense that "class" means that it was outstandingly effective it was "class" epitomised. I think that is what Melanie meant.

But at the same time, to many people, especially Americans, "class" carries the idea of good quality and of praiseworthy refinement, honesty, integrity and decency. Consequently, describing Blair's performance as a "class act" could be - and has been - understood by them quite differently. I also suspect that Melanie knew that when she wrote it - and that the ambiguity of it would stir people up.....

rachel

I didnt realize by commenting on the author of this article it would stir up such a hornets nest.
Seems like all of the Zionist brethren were stirred into action and to vent their "outrage"
Whats new right?
However you will be pleased to know that this will be my last post on this subject. Phew!
In case you are interested, I am for a ONE state solution with all citizens having the right to vote and equal opportunity.That includes Palestinians of any faith. (since some are Christian) It is too late to turn the clock back. However I think you will find that Zionists only want a state with a majority of the Jewish faith or should I say heritage. Since Zionism was conceived by a group of German Jews who were atheists. (Hertzl etal) Check your history.
He was even willing to become a Christian before he hit on the idea of going to another country. I think somewhere in Africa was his initial choice. Now tell me isnt that the epitome of a self hating Jew. A founder of Israel and a Zionist who originally thought of converting to Chritianity!

cityca

Sorry Mel but I have to disagree with you. Blair is a genius and a con artist of astonishing ability.

He conned the British public into voting for what they thought was a middle of the road, right of centre Labour politician which is how he spun his party.

In the event, Nu Labour have shown themselves to be the party of massive government interference in all our lives, our work, our businesses and our schools.

They invited millions from the third world to make the UK their home, on the premiss that they would vote for them in the future. They catastrophically destroyed what had been the most admired pension system in Europe and created the buy-to-let madness that resulted in banks becoming spivs and lending without any kind of caution.

They increased the volume of public spending and filled the town halls with useless bodies, who have been co-opted to interfere even more in our lives and require even more funding, as evidenced by the astonishing rise in council taxes while they were in office.

They allowed our utilities to fall into foreign ownership and did sweet fa about planning for our future energy requirements.

In all, the UK under Tony Blair is a sadder, poorer and less comfortable place than when he took over back in 1997.

Class act? Only if one admires a con man. His only saving grace? He says he supports Israel and his recent pronouncements seem to suggest he does. Otherwise, he took a relatively happy and prosperous country and allowed his minions to turn it into a basket case.

Speaking of Israel, rachel, glad to learn we've seen your last post 'on the subject', which in fact was completely off topic.

Stephen

It’s a curious fact that a hundred years ago, posh upper class people voted Tory, and the working classes voted Labour, whereas now it’s far more confused. The betrayal of Britain by its elites is the background to much that we discuss on this blog, and many others.
Many bad things have occurred in the last fifteen years, but it’s my belief that Tony Blair has tried more honourably to hold them back than anyone else in politics. Imagine for a moment that he had not been there in 1997, and Gordon Brown had won the leadership of the Labour party.
The judgment of history on his leadership will depend on whose history wins. Frankly, right now I have more confidence in the American point of view than in, say the UK Tories who have shown themselves to be so weak and confused. Perhaps the bitterness they display results from their inability to produce anyone better than Dave.
I say this with regret. I would have voted Conservative in May if Cameron and co were not, as Melanie points out, to the left of Blair.

Adam B.

rachel, how cheap to use the "as a Jew" argument, and then bring up dead relatives to back your hollow case. This doesn't give you any moral highground, and you should argue on the merits of a case, not on narcissistic sentimentality.

By the way, Zionism is not a political party. Do some reading.

Linda Smith

So Ridiculous Rachel says she’s Jewish, abhors all forms of “racism, but wants a one-State solution “with equal opportunity”. Doesn’t Ridiculous Rachel know that the Palestinian Authority’s basic law is Sharia! The only “equal opportunity” available to Jews in a one-State solution will be to live in an Islamic hell-hole as subjugated dhimmis under Sharia law.

Demographics, dear, demographics!! Stop spouting nonsense and go and read up a bit of Bat Ye’or and Andrew Bostom for starters. Your education is sadly lacking.

Ronnie

Laughable Linda.

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

Imshin

Well, Rachel, you are welcome to come live in your one Palestinian state, should they allow Jews. Since they're currently not allowing Jews in the more modest vision of a Palestinian state - alongside a Jewish one - (and they're not very nice to Christians either for that matter, even Arab ones), it's highly unlikely Jews will be tolerated in a larger one. But yes, it's we Jews who are the racists. Yup.

Sorry to be feeding the troll, folks, especially as it is off topic, but since this really is a life or death matter for me and mine, 'as an Israeli', I'm finding it hard to keep shtum.

John A. Davison

Tony Blair made another significant decision once he was out of politics. He abandoned a throughly corrupt Anglican Church to become a Roman Catholic.

I recommend "How The Catholic Church Built Western Civilization" by Thomas E. Woods Jr.

jadavison.wordpress.com

John A. Davison

Blair will be remembered right along with Winston Churchill. You Brits can't recognize greatness when it is staring you right in the face. That is why you are going down the tubes right along with every other socialst experiment in history. We will probably do the same thing here in the States. It won't be my fault.

jadavison.wordpress.com

Linda Smith

Ronnie, I observe that you are unable to give any reasons for lampooning me as “Laughable Linda”. I think an apt epithet for you is Rhetorical Ronnie (aka Empty Windbag).

EyeSee

Class act or not, Tony Blair had and has no interest in the people of Britain or the business of government. He wants, power, fame and money. The Tories, like new Labour are obsessed with how to attain power. They are not interested in why government exists or what the role of a PM is.
We don't need draconian crackdowns, we just need to return to the use of Common Law and a police force that isn't confused about its role. We need a criminal justice system that thinks the law belongs to the people and they have a duty to protect the people. The left liberal rubbish about moral equivalence and such exists in this system; it is when someone decides of their own free will to step outside the law that the balance is tipped. It is their choice. Tony Blair may be a class act, but his whole life is just that, an act. We deserve more. He deserves free, 9x6 accomnodation.

Yippee! Blair free...

Speaking of mad men, your Mail article yesterday on aspects of the TV series took me back to school days of the fifties. The names of the three main female protagonist you write of seemed familiar. Betty, Joan and Peggy. Ah yes, Fleetway 'School Friend' girls paper, The Silent Three. Sort of sums up the status of the women written about.

GaryO

“Don’t apply rules to the Government of Israel that you would never dream of applying to your own country.”

24 August 2010, Rt. Hon.Tony Blair at the Herzliya Forum for Diplomacy.

More here:
http://cifwatch.com/

Jenna

Am astonished M.P. calls Tony Blair a class act. Act yes, class, no. During his government terms in office, we saw a rapid increase in crime and criminal behaviour across the board in Britain. Gun, knife, casual violence & murder, fraud, robbery, scams, ID and most widespread of all, anti social crime and behaviour has become a deep cause of ingrained harm now in our society. Whole housing projects and estates are ruled in fear by gangs, and their younger cadres, as they terrorise with impunity and conduct their drug dealing with little police intervention. Crime soars in go-go areas. Crime in rural areas is also an acute problem. Young and under age drinking sees some town centres taken over at weekends. His Minister's navigated regimes where at every turn, law breakers, louts and thugs were treated with kid gloves as the laws were shunted to protect them. See Helena Kennedy and the brigade who took unrealistic views on crime and criminals.

Tony Blair presided over a regime which saw political correctness extend to ludicrous lengths and the civil liberties of the perpetrator take precedence. Certainly over victims and law abiders. Many of the foreign criminal thugs and gangs now operating in Britain had no problem entering the country, either legally or illegally. We literally became a free for all. Last year saw a rash of Turkish drug gangs shooting it out on London's streets on several occasions. Police authority became hampered in red tape, often rendering them ineffective. Asian communities in the North were allowed to develop a culture of torturing, tormenting or 'Honour' killing their girls and young women into marriage to strangers abroad because police authorities were told to back off sensitive 'cultural' issues. No other UK governments has been so soft on crime and criminals than those he led in misruling Britain. They more or less abandoned the rights of those who lived within the law. Blair IS a class act mesmeriser. Always was. Some of us however, aren't taken in. Our memory's are so short.

Augustus

Jenna - Yes, but I doubt that the 'New' Conservatives will do any better, and David Cameron is certainly no knight in shining armour about to save us through the political process. Like the Black Death, multiculturalism will surely destroy the world as we have known it. Only the progressives
believe otherwise, because to a progressive the 'inevitability'
of mass immigration is just another rationalistic conclusion that the future is always better than the past when it come to the matter of
'progressive' historical destiny.

But in point of fact it's like exposing someone to a virus (a multitude of viruses even) and saying that his immune system is strong enough to resist. Then
when the man gets ill and finally dies (which was predictable anyhow) they say that it is fate, besides, what's so wrong with death, isn't it natural?

Ian C

Tony Blair remains a "class act" because that's what so much of him was. An act.

As you rightly identify he was frequently to the right of leftish Tories. Which is why he got the votes, not once (a muppet would have won in 1997) but 2001 and 05. And he made Labour infinitely more credible than the would ever have been without him.

The problem with Blair was always who he was in business with to get elected - i.e the Labour Party in general and the likes of Prescott and Brown, to name just the obvious ones.

But he presided - I hesitate to say "over" - a government that was in a mess as soon as it started, but the incoherence of the remaining Tory party and the class warfare pursued via the Hunting Act and Brown's stealth raids on our purses put the country and those opposed to Labour, on the back foot.

That plus an oversize majority simply knocked the stuffing out of all opposition, so the media genuflected.

So he could 'act' the smart politician in front of a nation that had lost its self-respect by passing over total control to him in such a blanket manner.

And he did very little with it, apart from appear as a class act.

And now he is revealing what he has learnt ge should have done with his time in office, now that he has wised up.

Mrs Gillian Duffy

So Mr Davison wants to promote his blog. Perhaps he can can tell us how exactly the United Kingdom's strategic interest was served by unilaterally (with the encouragement of the coalition of the willing of course) declaring war on a sovereign nation that, whilst their leadership were odious in the extreme, posed no significant military threat to the UK?

Would anyone care to conjecture exactly how thrilled Mr Hussein would have been to have a bellicose, nuclear armed Iran right next door to him? Could anyone hazard a guess as to what might have happened next?

Mr Davison does have one thing right though, it does look like the US is going to hell in hand-cart. Whilst Ms Clinton is getting very exorcised about some publicity stunt by backwater zealots in Florida it seems that the army of the good ol' US of A has been burning Bibles (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/index.html). Apparently "the Bibles were burned because the rules on the base say that all garbage is burned at the end of the day" (http://blogs.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/archive/2009/05/19/pentagon-confiscated-bibles.aspx). So, to be clear, the military of the most powerful nation in the *ahem* free world sees no problem in burning stacks of Bibles with no censure from the "Leader of the Free World" but the US Government DOES choose to pipe up and rain fire down on its citizens when they are equally crass and insensitive.

As-Salaam-Alaikum, Mr. Davison.

And finally, everyone knows that Western Civilization was built from the Protestant Enlightenment. As for corruption in the Anglican church? ??? First take the log out of your own eye.

Welcome to Britain.

Bill Corr

Just try to imagine something which would - sadly - be impossible in reality.

A county - Essex - or a city - Liverpool - or a part of a city - Hackney - would decree that those convicted of anti-social crimes would be whipped in public.

Would vandalism and loutish behaviour diminish after the first few public whippings?

What do you think, readers?

Ed

"I would suggest that your argument is flawed. It is anti-Zionism which is racist, in that the ONLY people not allowed to have a nation are the Jews."

Wonder what the Basques would make of that statement......

Oedipus Rex

Jenna - I've never read such a load of pure concentrated tosh in my life. Lets' start:
Knife crime was at its highest in 1995 (Major, are you old enough to remember him?)

'Honour' killings - have been going on within the relevant 'communities' since they've been here (60's, 70's) which is why the police have opened up so many retrospective cases.

Gang violence -heard of the Krays and the Richardsons, to name but two?

I lived in Hackney in the 80's (Thatcher, remember) and am back again these last few years. It is IMMEASURABLY better. Only the little privileged Tabathas and Justins who've moved in on their parents money think that it's 'edgy'. The serious crime that still exists is contained within a tiny group of people.

I'm no fan of Blair, but most of the posters above seem to be re-living a rose tinted past that never was, a common human delusion.

Neil Saunders

To Bill Corr

Does the thought of all those public whippings turn you on, Bill?

Come on, you're among friends here. Be honest with us.

(Incidentally, am I missing something, or has this thread unaccountably turned into a sanctuary for flagellomane oddballs? Why does the mention of Tony Blair bring self-righteous sadists scuttling out of the woodwork?)

Neil Saunders

To Richard

This remark might be made a bit late in the day, Richard, since you were the first commentator to post on this thread.

However, much as Tony Blair is (I sincerely believe) to be reviled, the (purely notional) repeal of the (never likely to be imposed or inflicted) death penalty for Treason was among the very least of his sins, if it be a sin at all, and not merely (as most would consider it) a long-delayed exercise in the judicial spring cleaning of an effectively dead statute. (Capital punishment in the UK was - to all intents and purposes - over the moment that Harold Wilson's administration took over in October 1964 - the better part of 50 years ago!)

In attacking Blair for something as meaningless as this, you trivialise his all-too-real sins of misgovernance, and his mistakes on matters of real substance and contemporary relevance.

Neil Saunders

It's funny, Ed, but I was just wondering what the English would think of it.

After all, people like Jack Straw and John Prescott have been very quick to tell us that we don't exist.

Bill Corr

Neil Saunders quite rightly asks whether the spectacle of public whippings would excite me.

Whether I would find such sights thrilling in a shameful or "shy-making" [Waugh] way or not is not really the point; I am convinced that impressionable youth beholding such scenes might think twice about engaging in anti-social and loutish behaviour in the future.

Most of us keep more-or-less on the straight and narrow without being chivvied into behaving well by the dread of public whipping or public hanging.

I did see a fellow beheaded once. That was in Taif; his crime was wilful murder and there was no doubt about his guilt. The man being executed was Filipino; the Governor of Taif had ordered all companies employing Filipinos to bring their employees along to watch.

In Elizabeth Tudor's day rioting apprentices were hanged on the spot by the London sherrif's men when apprehended.

Anyway, a local trial of robust punishments would be a jolly good idea and would prove a splendid tourist draw. Tell the Hackney Tourist Board.

Neil Saunders

Thanks for that heart-warming little anecdote, Bill.

For my part I shall never forget the Monty Python sketch in which the bowler-hatted, true-blue CIty gent (who probably thinks that the Monday Club is pink at the edges and that Duncan Sandys is a dangerous radical) offers the following penological prescription: "I think we should bring back the 'cat'. Round my place, every Thursday!"

Ian Hills

Melanie, you are a "class act" for that tongue-in-cheek compliment to Blair. As executors of European law, neither Blair nor Cameron have any credibility, and as both the EU and the ECHR get worse, Cameron will be seen by more people as being on the "left". Perhaps the true political dichotomy these days, though, is not between right and left, but between lovers of big brother and lovers of our, sadly disappearing, civil rights. Now if only the latter could unite into a single sane party...

Pat Morgan

Citycar: Well said. Agree entirely.

margaret durant

A class act? He may have talked sense about British criminality but the crime he committed, taking Britain without clear evidence of WMD in Iraq, was a worse crime than the totality of crimes committed in Britain in the last 23 years.

Mike

Can't disagree with his rhetoric, shame his actions are the complete opposite of what he says. Once a liar, always a liar.

bill

The conservatives lost the election for the reasons predicted by one E...P... about 40 years ago.

Suffolkbor

Bill:

What did Elvis Presley predict for the conservatives forty years ago?

Derek BLADES

Frank P asks Rachel "do you not agree that Israel is the UK’s only true ally in the Middle East?"

I really cannot imagine what the poor fellow has in mind. Britain, France and Israel were briefly allied in a futile attempt to sieze the Suez Canal in 1956. Since then the only "ally-type" action that springs to mind is Mossad's theft of British passports in a botched assasination attempt. With allies like that who needs enemies?

Adam B.

Blades, you could have "allies" like the Saudis who infiltrate the UK with Wahabist extremists, or like the Libyans and Syrians who blow up airliners over Lockerbie. Or the Iranians who are killing UK troops with Iranian made roadside bombs.

No it's those Jews you have to watch. Note the lack of outcry over the recnt Russian use of UK passports. And I'm sure MI5 are a bunch of boyscouts.

Neil Saunders

My goodness, Suffolkbor, you're hilarious!

revolution

Remember how Tony the peoples princess Blair wanted thugs marched to cash points to pay fines?
Blair also did a good job in filling up Londonistan with tens of thousands of Mustafa Jihads?
Why do you think Blair is jeered and pelted with missiles ?

Derek BLADES

Adam B. I have never imagined that the Saudis, Libyans or Syrians were allies of Britain but neither, in any common-sense meaning of the term, are the Israelis.

Britain currently has alliances with the NATO countries and with non-NATO military partners in Iraq. But no alliance of any kind with with Israel. The notion that Israel is an ally of Britain is one of the sillier assertions that surfaces from time to time on this blog-site. Let's stop talking rubbish - difficult though it may be for many of you.

Adam B.

Blades, it is truly sad that you are unable to distinguish between countries which share democratic values, freedom of speech, women's rights, a lack of persecution of gay people, and shared history tha with countries which do none of these things. but then, such is the way of moral vacuity.

michael

What's the point reducing admin only to sit the same policemen in expensive cars babysitting habituals who ought be banged up.

It's an object lesson in demoralisation.