A betrayal of this man's name

H2SO4

Breaking the silence is a company(LTD) and not a NGO.# Registered company in Israel, founded in 2004.
# Funders in 2008 include the European Union (43,514), the British government (NIS 226,589), the New Israel Fund (NIF -- $68,833 in 2008), the Netherlands (19,999), the Spanish government, Oxfam, Christian Aid, the Moriah Fund, ICCO (Dutch church group) and SIVMO (Dutch).# Registered company in Israel, founded in 2004.
# Funders in 2008 include the European Union (43,514), the British government (NIS 226,589), the New Israel Fund (NIF -- $68,833 in 2008), the Netherlands (19,999), the Spanish government, Oxfam, Christian Aid, the Moriah Fund, ICCO (Dutch church group) and SIVMO (Dutch).

Andre

I pray often for the men and women of the IDF who I remember with great affection. Shame on the European Parliament.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTXiBGLloV4

rippon

But Breaking the Silence comprises IDF soldiers and veterans, so its allegations carry weight (rather than being “totally specious”). IDF soldiers and veterans know better than Melanie Phillips, The Wall Street Journal and Yelena Bonner what is happening on the front line of the occupation.

Mailman

The sad thing about this nomination is that if these guys win, they will take valuable focus off those parts of the world who really do need help because of REAL human rights abuses.

Then again, when did the left last care about the lives of anyone?

Mailman

Dvar Dea

We’ve grown used to such thing, sadly.
Back then I took a shot at their Gaza report.
Here are two segments dealing with the white phosphorus:

From part 2 of my review:
At page 45 there is the only on the scene testimony of the use of white phosphorus by the IDF. It aimed at a house, which army intelligence was confident had a lot of ammo and weapons inside. The purpose of the white phosphors was to ignite it and blow it all up, which it did, confirming decisively the intelligence information. The explosions included several Qassam rockets. Now, does Breaking the Silence claim that this action was illegal or immoral? If so under what wording or interpretation of international law do they base this? Because the purpose of international law, as I understand it to be, is to protect unarmed civilians, not the stockpiles of weapons intended to kill them.

See, http://dvardea.blogspot.com/2009/09/review-of-breaking-silence-cast-lead.html

From part 3:

And then there are the absurdities. In pages 21 and 22 a soldier describes what he sees as the inhumane use of white phosphorus in a sandy area near the border, a mostly open region where soldiers do need a smoke-screen cover, such as white phosphorus gives. The only observable victim he could see is the “glazed sand”; no mention of people, animals, domestic or otherwise, vegetation, or structures, just sand.
Is this soldier suggesting that it is inhumane to hurt sand, or worse, that it is inhumane to give his fellow soldiers smoke-screen cover in an open area?

See, http://dvardea.blogspot.com/2009/09/review-of-breaking-silence-cast-lead_13.html

Andre

rippon nonsense - I was in the army many years ago and let me tell you the last people to find out what is going on are the squaddies on the front line. It is invidious to claim BTS is composed of former IDF personnel as almost everyone in Israel is obliged to do national service. Read H2SO4 - good post

cyllan

SO4H2!!!!!!

THIS is the formula of sulphuric acid!!!!, it is beyond pale someone would use this pseudonym to posts a supposed legitimation of the pseudo intellectuals attacking israel right to exist,

i just wonder who do you work for,

Paula

One of the individuals behind this is Daniel Cohn-Bendit, who enjoys a cult status in France since May 68. He is in favour of the boycott of Israel and is behind several anti-Israel initiatives provided they attract lots of media attention, like J Call.

From Haaretz:
"Parliament member Daniel Cohn-Bendit, president of the European Greens-European Free Alliance and a leader of the 1968 student uprising in Paris, said Breaking the Silence was nominated because "the Greens/EFA group wants to recognize the bravery of all the individuals involved who work to shed light on the injustices of the Israeli occupation and ensure Israeli society does not simply turn a blind eye."

While "Israel is a democracy, it nonetheless takes enormous courage to speak out and break through the taboos and prejudices surrounding the Israeli occupation," he said."

rippon

Andre, you were in the IDF?

Alex Bensky

Anyone who has followed BTS knows that it has little regard for the truth and great regard for the most inflammatory charges which it will repeat and dignify irrespective of facts and prior to any serious investigation. So it's got a good chance to win.

But here's an idea--how about a joint award? Match Israel's BTS with one of the organizations in Arab countries that monitors and reports freely, irrespective of factual bases, on the actions of their own governments and armies. Oh, wait...

YG

Rippon,
Extreme left Israelies serve in the army as well. As other extreme leftists they tend to lie for their cause.
Their "reports" has been refuted again and again, but their hate for IDF is so deep like other leftists, they just obey their stalinist masters orders.

YG

"But the biggest threat Israeli activists face is a sunburn from those long meetings at Tel Aviv cafes"
Right on. Those activists risk nothing but they get free money and traveling to Europe. A great job.
I would call it Delux activists, while real freedom activists in arab countries sit in jail...

Roger K

Top marks H2S04. Anyone who personally gives to these organizations should pull their support with a note to say why.
Poor old 'Rippoff' the deluded will always be amongst us.

david elder

A Soviet apologist once said you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. It seems you have to break a few silences as well ...

Truthtriumphs

Rippon.
Doesn't the fact that a few army malcontents are free to spread their pernicious lies demonstrate that Israel is a vibrant democracy?
And btw, their so -called evidence was admitted by them to be based on hearsay, and not on witness observation.

Dixon

Is Rippon really Derek B having worn out his sock through too much puppeting?

N. Friedman

This is among your most profound comments, Ms. Phillips. Ms. Bonner, who previously wrote a marvelous article about Israel in The New Republic, ought be made aware of this latest example of the expression of European bigotry.

Gershon

Breaking the Silence is at best an organisation which tells half truths and at worst is totally mendacious.

@Rippon - I served in the IDF in a combat unit, my sons and my son in law are officers in IDF combat units and my daughters also served in the IDF. I hope this gives me enough credibility to comment.

Dalia

Breaking the Silence is not anti Israel. They do what they should do to correct things in Israel. Israel is a democracy and they have the right and duty to bring information to be checked by the proper authorities.
The European Wonderful PC media happy to charge Israel with anything takes every incorrect information to condemn Israel.

It is possible to sometimes bring stories which are later found incorrect. You can't stop everything just because the international media is so unprofessional.

John Thomas

The info, from H2SO4, that Christian Aid supports this BTS is disturbing. I wonder what their line on abortion and other CD projects is? I used to give to Christian Aid, but not now. No, I'm not a rabid supporter of Israel who claims that the new Israeli state "proves" the end of the world is coming, Christ's return etc.(we're NOT to speculate on that), but I support Israel's right to defend itself, and am somewhat taken with the argument that if Israel falls to jihadism (helped by Western "liberals", of course) then we are next.

D. Singh

Sir

‘Yet Breaking the Silence is one of the three nominees short-listed for this year’s Sakharov Prize, the European Parliament's human rights award named after the great Soviet dissident and the winner of which will be named tomorrow.’

Here is another Soviet dissident who condemns the EU:

‘In 1992 I had unprecedented access to Politburo and Central Committee secret documents which have been classified, and still are even now, for 30 years. These documents show very clearly that the whole idea of turning the European common market into a federal state was agreed between the left-wing parties of Europe and Moscow as a joint project which [Soviet leader Mikhail] Gorbachev in 1988-89 called our “common European home.”

‘The idea was very simple. It first came up in 1985-86, when the Italian Communists visited Gorbachev, followed by the German Social-Democrats. They all complained that the changes in the world, particularly after [British Prime Minister Margaret] Thatcher introduced privatisation and economic liberalisation, were threatening to wipe out the achievement (as they called it) of generations of Socialists and Social-Democrats – threatening to reverse it completely. Therefore the only way to withstand this onslaught of wild capitalism (as they called it) was to try to introduce the same socialist goals in all countries at once. Prior to that, the left-wing parties and the Soviet Union had opposed European integration very much because they perceived it as a means to block their socialist goals. From 1985 onwards they completely changed their view. The Soviets came to a conclusion and to an agreement with the left-wing parties that if they worked together they could hijack the whole European project and turn it upside down. Instead of an open market they would turn it into a federal state.’

Valdimir Bukovsky (Brussels, 2006)

GaryO

Looks like its the Cuban guy wot won it.

Augustus

"If I whisper to you, 'You have a spot on your tie', I am a friend who is trying to help. If I get up in front of thousands and say, 'Hey look at him, he has a spot on his tie',
then my help will be viewed differently. As soon as Breaking The Silence left Israel
and took their case to Europe and the USA, they lost their legitimacy. They are perceived as enemies by ordinary Israeli Zionists and can no longer be effective advocates of change in Israeli policy or the IDF."

H2SO4

cyllan,
If H2SO4 offends you, try NaCl instead.
I don't work for anyone. You got me wrong.
I don't thing that an organization in Israel
Financed by foreign governments (that is what I showed)Has to by honored by another organization which has the same governments
as members.

N.L

Two pictures are better then 1000 works.
The cuban who won:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11594804utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
The Israeli:
http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/spages/1178535.html

The question:who looks like a real dissident?
I rest my case.

Intanil

Wasn't an ADL speech by Murdoch mentioned a few articles ago?

The same ADL who gives men like Silvio Berlusconi awards. The same Silvio Berlusconi downplaying Mussolini's crimes, as his "was a much more benign dictatorship. Mussolini did not murder anyone. Mussolini sent people on holiday to internal exile."

Grave's are a turning alright. You pick your legitimate organisations as you see fit.

Dvar Dea

Breaking The Silence says the IDF wasn’t fighting the Palestinian gunmen but the civilian population in Gaza. The base that statement on the fact that most of those gunmen fled. This is a twisted logic, think of people dressing worm because the weatherman told them it is going to be cold. Instead there is a heat wave. Applying BTS logic, people dressed lightly that morning because there was a heat wave.
Their own testimonies record not only leaflet, but also other procedures aimed at saving civilians lives. Such as calling people from the street, and from the entrance to their homes; the red line procedure, where a perimeter is define around an IDF held position, and the identity of every civilian that comes close is verified and cleared to move on.
Those measures were successful, since most of the houses were empty.

Derek BLADES

Andre makes the curious claim that "It is invidious (sic) to claim BTS is composed of former IDF personnel as almost everyone in Israel is obliged to do national service."

Breaking The Silence is a group of army veterans who are shocked at the extent to which occupation of a conquered people has undermined the morality of the occupiers. This inevitably happens to occupying armies and the IDF is not immune. Members of Breaking The Silence have been, and continue to be, subjected to harassment by the IDF and deserve the support of all right-thinking people both in Israel and in the West.

Instead of thinking up snide remarks about these brave people I suggest that Andre should google Breaking The Silence and read what they actually have to say.

Adam B.

Someone who hates Israel, Derek Blades, thinks that Breaking the Silence is a great organization. Yet Breaking the Silence says it isn't anti-Israel.

Funny how all the Israel haters applaud it though. Why would that be, I wonder?

rippon

The infantile ‘logic’ (read: delusion) of Adam B. could equally well be applied thus:

Mr X thinks that the UK’s immigration controls are too lax.

The BNP also thinks that.

The BNP are a racist party. Therefore, Mr X must be a racist.

Lao Tzu's best friend

Israel's murderous actions have done far more to delegitimize it's standing in the international community than any action by it's powerless and discredited neighbours, or even those accused of antisemitic sentiment in the European Parliament.

Do you honestly expect the rest of the world to ignore some of the most horrific war crimes committed since the turn of the millennium? Anyone who's read the *full* Goldstone report will probably have nightmares for the rest of their lives.

Adam B.

Well rippon, that is simply an admission that every Israel basher will applaud Breaking the Silence.

In such circumstances, it isn't difficult to see why there is a lot of scepticism at this organization - much of whose support comes from those who simply wish to demonize Israel anyway.

James Reston

To the previous poster, the Goldstone Report was a complete and utter fabrication that should not be taken seriously by any thinking person see eyeontheun.org. Self defense is not a "war crime". The deligitimization which you support is soley due to anti-semitic bigotry which you are a firm believer in by parroting the arab propoganda of Israel's genocidal enemies. As one serious commentator (unlike yourself) once put it " If Israel should perish, the Holocaust will be upon us"

Jane

No one is denying Israel's right to exist.... but not on someone else's land. Dismantle the settlements leave the West Bank and live in peace. Simple

David Skinner

Jane, to deny that the Jewish nation has existed since the 13th century BC or that Jerusalem is central to its faith and that therefore, for every Jew, the homeland is legitimately Israel is just plain wrong.

Derek

Jane does not know, or has chosen to ignore, that there is no legal basis for claiming that Israel is on "someone else's land" or for demanding that the settlements should be dismantled. How though does one deal with the "Don't confuse me with the facts" brigade...?

Derek BLADES

James Reston tells us that "the Goldstone Report was a complete and utter fabrication ..... Self defense is not a "war crime".

"Complete and utter fabrication" - surely some exaggeration here?

Operation Cast Lead hardly looked like "self defence" but even if we accept this ludicrious notion, the way in which "self defence" was carried out involved numerous war crimes that are docupented in a balanced way and in gruesome detail in the Goldstone Report.

"Self defence" does not allow the "self-defenders" to do whatever they wish. The wanton destruction of Gaza's civilian infrastructure and the reckless use of high explosives in a crowded city was truly shocking.

I suggest James Redston reads the Goldstone Report and not the silly nonsense in "eyeontheun.org."

Adam B.

Derek Blades

I suggest you look at the interview of Israeli citizens living in Sderot and Ashkelon, which were removed from the final draft of "Goldstone". Why was that? In addition, you may wish to look at the highly partisan make up of the authorship of the report. Seevral members had attacked Israel with expression sof outright hatred, before they even began the "investigation".

Goldstone was a lynching of the Jewish state for darig to defend itself form a racist, genocidal terror enity - and it's a pity you can't see that.

Jonathan Levy

rippon
October 20th, 2010 5:13pm

I remember reading in Ha'aretz (a left-wing newspaper) about the allegations by 'Breaking the Silence'. It is true that they are also IDF soldiers. However, in no case were they reporting first-hand events which they had witnessed with their own eyes. They were merely repeating rumors which they had heard at second or third hand, or read about. In this sense they were no more eyewitnesses than was Melanie Phillips.

As someone else mentioned here, the IDF contains soldiers from the entire political spectrum, including the extreme left. These soldiers, hearing rumors of Israeli misconduct, are inclined to believe them. When they report them and no conviction ensues (through lack of a factual basis), they assume that it has been smothered for political reasons, and therefore search for a venue where facts are less important.

This is not to say that there are no real cases of abuse (several soldiers were convicted of looting), nor to say that no improvement is possible. But I do believe that in the particular case - the accusations by 'Breaking the Silence' regarding Operation Cast Lead - the uniforms do not add to the credibility of the accusers.