Hamas's Iranian puppeteer

David Lindsay

The War Party has no problem with ghastly dictatorships. It has no problem with Islamists, including in Europe, and indeed in the Iraq where such forces have been unleashed by its actions.

And it has no problem with Ba'athists, cheerfully encouraging and assisting the People's Mojahedin of Iran (PMOI) that moved during the Iran-Iraq War to Saddam Hussein's Iraq, which until its own overthrow in 2003 provided most of the PMOI's money and all of its military assistance.

No, it is not made up of Arabs, and Ba'athism is supposed to be a form of Arab nationalism, founded, like so many such forms, by a Christian. But if there are Russian Nazis, increasingly in Israel because at least they are not Arabs, then there may as well also be Persian Ba'athists. And there are.

In fact, in backing both the PMOI and Jundullah, the neocons are backing both the Ba'athists and the Sunni Islamists in relation to the same country. But it is that country. So that's all right, then. Isn't it?

Bill Rees

We continue to close our eyes to the most obvious truths. What a very impressive and brave woman!

AY

David Lindsay - sincerely feel for you man; hope you get well soon.

Margaret Muller-Johansson

It could be so helpful in the future if many people come out, come out of the closet and say the true about their beliefs.

david elder

David Lindsay @ 6.36 pm: let me see if I've got this straight. The cabal of 'neocons' are the 'war party' - this explains why most of the EU countries voted for action against Saddam. This 'war party' doesn't care about Saddam - this explains why the war party removed him. The war party doesn't care about Islamism in Europe - this explains the current dramas there over Wilders, Muslim immigration etc. The war party doesn't care about Islamism in Iraq - this explains the fierce struggle between the US and the jihadis, the latter succumbing to the surge which Lindsay ignores. The war party supported Saddam - yes, modestly, when it looked as if the Ayatollah was going to overrun the region, an outcome feared by the generality. Saddam's biggest backers were the USSR, and France gave him far more help than the US. Lindsay's claim that fascism was usually spawned by Christians is more witch-hunting - e.g. Hitler was a neo-pagan. Lindsay is typical of the ideological left, mangling facts to demonise anyone who disagrees with them. If Lindsay is typical of the Palestinians' supporters, God help them.

bronfman s

David Lindsay conveniently leaves out the other co-founder of the Ba'ath Party was a Muslim Salah al-Din al-Bitar. Why let the truth get in the way there David?

The rest of his thesis is pretty confused. eg "But if there are Russian Nazis, increasingly in Israel because at least they are not Arabs, then there may as well also be Persian Ba'athists. And there are." Huh?

Grumpy true Zionist

and now we've got that 'little giggling pontiff' aka desmond tutu, calling for a south african opera group to boycott Israel, as well as calling for some little known south african university to cut ties with Bar Elan (guess who'se the looser here), all because of Israel's policy of survival viz a viz gaza

tutu and his merry band of nutters (carter,robinson et al) could'nt recognise terror and all it entails,even if it happened in their backyard.

Derek BLADES

"For those who so naively believe that the way to defuse the Islamist threat to the world is first to solve the Israel/Palestinian conflict, further evidence .....[that] the Palestinians are themselves being controlled by the forces of the jihad."

The evidence offered is that the Nigerian government has intercepted an arms shipment destined for Hamas.

If the shipment was indeed destined for Hamas that does not in any way prove that Hamas are "controlled by the forces of the jihad". It just shows that Hamas will buy weapons wherever it can. Nor does it contradict the commonsense proposition that solving the Israel/Palestine conflict will help to defuse Islamic antipathy towards the West.

Incidentally, a smuggling route from Iran to Gaza that passes through Nigeria strikes me as implausible. The story is probably a hoax.

Mailman

As I have said repeatedly on this blog, peace could exist tomorrow IF the Arab world simply accepted Israels right to exist and live in peace with its neighbours.

Israel isnt the problem, the real problem is the Arab worlds continued war of aggression against Israel.

Sadly, while we have terrorist appeasers like Curious George Galloway running around loving it up with the scum of the earth and a mfm only to happy to spread blood libels, peace wont be coming any time soon!

For peace to break out, the Arab world will have to be forced to accept Israels right to exist by being given a greater incentive to accept Israel as a Jewish state than they have at the moment with continuing their war of aggression.

Mailman

When is a neo con not a neo con? (Ask the Serbs!) According to some Chetniks G_d is Black - ask Condi about Kosov(a)o (Or ask Dubios about Hitler) etc etc.)

David Lyndsay has a point - it is after all a three way street in the real world.
Ask HIM Haile Selasie about the league of nations...

Bruce

I recall that it is a fair drive from Nigeria to Hamastan.

Could it be that the mad mullahs in Tehran are attempting to make some alterations to the religious balance in Nigeria?

Adam B.

Blades, I suppose the constant talk of "jihad" by Hamas also has nothing to do with jihad, and the frequent references to it in Hamas literature has nothing to do with jihad either. The fact that Iran, the primary backer of Hamas, talks of jihad is also mere coincidence.

Amazing.

LInda Smith

Derek Blades (29 Oct 8:03am) reiterates yet again his deluded mantra: "Nor does it contradict the commonsense proposition that solving the Israel/Palestine conflict will help to defuse Islamic antipathy towards the West."
Commonsense?...No Sense! For sensible, scholarly and reasoned information read Raymond Ibrahim's articles:
"...offensive jihad is part and parcel of Islam; it is no less codified than, say, Islam's Five Pillars, which no Muslim rejects. The Encyclopaedia of Islam's entry for "jihad" states that the "spread of Islam by arms is a religious duty upon Muslims in general … Jihad must continue to be done until the whole world is under the rule of Islam … Islam must completely be made over before the doctrine of jihad can be eliminated." Scholar Majid Khadurri (1909-2007), after defining jihad as warfare, writes that jihad "is regarded by all jurists, with almost no exception, as a collective obligation of the whole Muslim community."
Even that chronic complainer Osama bin Laden makes it clear that offensive jihad is the root problem: "Our talks with the infidel West and our conflict with them ultimately revolve around one issue… Does Islam, or does it not, force people by the power of the sword to submit to its authority corporeally if not spiritually? Yes. There are only three choices in Islam... Either submit, or live under the suzerainty of Islam, or die."
Clearly, then, it is in the Muslim world's interest to keep the West ignorant of the fact that, irrespective of all Muslim grievances — real or feigned — nothing less than Islamic law itself mandates a state of constant hostility. Indeed, if the implications of offensive jihad were fully embraced, humanity might be compelled to view the Muslim world as a perpetual, existentialist threat, in need of preemptive containment. That said, and considering the willful ignorance of the West's political elite — who are guided less by objective facts and more by their "feel-good" ideals — Muslim talk of offensive jihad, no matter how loud or ubiquitous, will likely continue to fall on deaf ears."
Read the full article here:http://www.raymondibrahim.com/8258/offensive-jihad

Bunju Jangwe

God is watching! the first thing i did do when I come back from work was listen the news oh boy! those interesting packages was sent from Yemen to Chicago, I was asking myself they are not from Britain? I am not surprise about anything anymore and where things are coming from they could be sent from Iran or Yemen or who knows, but when I travel and see those Yemeni and Somali package handlers in the British Airports and stations my heart became wobbly fummmbly bubbly.

John.

In other words, "islamist" and "islamic" are precisely the same.

Ian Miller

Aafaq.org isn't a "liberal Arab website"; it is run by the same people who run memri.org.

If you don't believe have a look at the domain registrations:-
http://pir.org/get/whois?domain=memri.org
&
http://pir.org/get/whois?domain=aafaq.org

They have tried to hide who they are with the P.O. box address and the administrator name of "Joe Smith" but they forgot to use anonymous e-mail addresses so that <mlevin@memri.org> & <mvidikan@memri.org> appear.

If that web-site is genuine, I am a genuine chinaman.

Ian

AY

Ian Miller -

Everyone can ensure that the website you mention, is presented in Arabic.

Here is the list of people, - so in your view they are all what, "genuine" Norwegians?

http://aafaq.org/english/archive_pysk.aspx

Or in your view, "Arab" should automatically mean "jihadi" - strange logic, and quite offensive to Arabs BTW.

Derek BLADES

So there we have it. Linda Smith does not think that "solving the Israel/Palestine conflict will help to defuse Islamic antipathy towards the West."

Not even a teensy-weensy little bit, Linda? You don’t think it would not persuade even two or three persons of the Islamic persuasion to reduce, by even a teeny little bit, their antipathy towards the West?

Clearly Linda and I move in different worlds. I have met many Moslem people who are not at all into jihad but who are critical of Israel’s brutal treatment of the Palestinians. They see Palestinians as victims of a double-whammy – booted out of their homes and them bombed, killed and otherwise brutalised by Israeli soldiers and settlers. I am pretty sure that none of the Moslems I know are thinking of strapping on a suicide vest, firing rockets in the general direction of the homes they have had stolen from them or even throwing stones at Israeli soldiers. But they do view the present Israeli government with a certain amount of resentment and they are disgusted by the Western world’s support for Israel’s brutal actions. I believe that disgust would diminish if the West were to exert pressure on Israel to make a just settlement with the Palestinians.

Ms Smith, on the other hand, seems to live in a world populated barmy Imans, Islamic "scholars" and similar whackos who believe that the entire world will one day be ruled by persons of an Islamic tendency. The people Lindsay mixes with are so evidently deranged that they cannot possibly pose any real danger to the world. They can blow up things, send bombs through the post, cause localised havoc and upset airline passengers but in the larger scheme of things they are just a bad joke.

People like Lindsay used to see reds under the bed. Now when she peers over her pillow at night she sees straggly beards and feet with sandals sticking out. Unsettling no doubt but a course of anti-paranoia therapy might help.

AY

Derek - you know what, these Shahrazada songs can't deceive anybody.

People are not idiots and understand that dozens of thousands of killed by terrorists - not only in 9/11 and in Europe, but also in Iraq, AfPak, Darfur and everywhere - this isn't "joke". Just today there was bombing and 25 dead in Baghdad.

And that weapons smuggled by Iranians to Gaza and Lebanon, - this isn't "hoax". If not stopped there today, it will go to Marseille and London tomorrow - we will get Baghdad on Thames.

And that there is no noticeable Arab emigration from Israel, as it should have been if people wanted to escape "brutal" treatment - to the contrary, Arabs from territories try to marry an Israeli to get citizenship.

Your narratives are so obviously at odds with reality.
Why to repeat them again and again.

Worried

Really @ Derek Blades? Nothing to worry about huh? From the man himself (do watch it all): http://us.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2010/10/29/ps.cleric.choudary.cnn?hpt=T2

Augustus

Derek Blades - Your persistent propaganda against Zionists for
'booting out' Palestinian Arabs
from their homes falls flat when looked at on a world scale
basis. Have you ever really wondered why these Palestinians
are still such 'victims' and still, after all this time, remain in a permanent refugee
status? Because, in the history of all fleeing population groups
anywhere, the Palestinians are
the exception in not having been
absorbed and incorporated in lands of their own kin. And the
ironic part of the whole sorry
story is that about 850,000 Jewish refugees were forcibly expelled from Arab lands after the foundation of Israel to which most of them fled and were
received and taken in. And that figure was even more than the Arab refugees that fled from Palestine between 1948 and 1967.
Most of those Jewish refugees had little more than the clothes
on their backs, and yet still
586,000 of them were taken in by Israel and sheltered in the small land area which Israel had been allocated, and at great cost without any compensation by any Arab states
who had ruthlessly confiscated all their worldly possessions;
houses, businesses etc. Since those times millions of Jews from around the world, including
whole communities of Jews from places like Russia and Ethiopia,
have found a home in Israel, a land of barely 22,000 square kilometers. Why couldn't the Palestinian Arabs be assimilated
in neighbouring Arab countries with far less population density
and a far greater territory of
about 7,500,000 square kilometers? Tell me that please.

Derek BLADES

Augustus asks me "Why couldn't the Palestinian Arabs be assimilated
in neighbouring Arab countries with far less population density
and a far greater territory of about 7,500,000 square kilometers? "

The answer is that many Palestinian refugees have indeed been assimilated into Arab countries. In many of the Gulf States most of the technical work in Government seems to be done by Palestinians and throughout the Arab world you will find Palestinians in scientific and liberal professions in numbers disproportionate to their shares in the population

The bulk however have chosen to remain as a cohesive force in neighbouring countries because they still hope to regain their properties in Israel or, at the very least, to be compensated for their losses.

Does that answer your question?

AZKent

Of course it would be impolite to point out the massive arms supplied to Israel. The white phosphorus bombs, dropped on civilian targets, or the fact that for every Israeli killed hundreds of innocent Palestinian civilian men women and children are killed. A policy of collective punishment against a population not seen since the Nazi era. No, we are told Israel, which has seized land in flagrant violation of UN resolutions, is the victim.

Nor are we innocent of war crimes in the Middle East. In the words of Denis Halliday, who resigned as UN humanitarian coordinator in Iraq in 1998:

"I often have to explain why I resigned from the United Nations after a 30 year career, why I took on the all powerful states of the UN Security Council; and why after five years I continue to serve the well being of the people of Iraq. In reality there was no choice, and there remains no choice. You all would have done the same had you been occupying my seat as head of the UN Humanitarian Program in Iraq.
I was driven to resignation because I refused to continue to take Security Council orders, the same Security Council that had imposed and sustained genocidal sanctions on the innocent of Iraq. I did not want to be complicit. I wanted to be free to speak out publicly about this crime.
And above all, my innate sense of justice was and still is outraged by the violence that UN sanctions have brought upon, and continues to bring upon, the lives of children, families – the extended families, the loved ones of Iraq. There is no justification for killing the young people of Iraq, not the aged, not the sick, not the rich, not the poor.
Some will tell you that the leadership is punishing the Iraqi people. That is not my perception, or experience from living in Baghdad. And were that to be the case – how can that possibly justify further punishment, in fact collective punishment, by the United Nations? I don’t think so. And international law has no provision for the disproportionate and murderous consequences of the ongoing UN embargo – for well over 12 long years".

In that act alone we are responsible for the death of millions before the war even started. How dare you, Melanie Phillips, ignore that atrocity while trumpeting the injustice of 911. Or don't the deaths of Iraqi children matter? Shame on you.

DavidSI

Blades, no it hasn't answered Augustus' question. Could you please be very specific about the numbers of Palestinians that have been absorbed into neighbouring Arab countries as you claim. I believe the figure to be very small indeed and completely at odds with the scale of repatriation of dispossed Jews into Israel that Augustus refers to. (Augustus is alluding to a well documented Arab policy of preventing the repatriation of Palestinians in order to pressurise Israel ... Google "Arab betrayal of the Palestinians" to read more).

JOHN ROOSEVELT

Cleric Choudry wants to "invite" every infidel to see the "light" of Sharia Law (http://us.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2010/10/29/ps.cleric.choudary.cnn?hpt=T2).The invitation will be a peaceful one, he maintains...but what happens when the "invitation" is rejected and "submission" doesn't get the "non-believer's" toe tapping?

And what are, exactly, "moslem lands", the “return” of which is, according to the cleric, an Islamic imperative, when Islam knows no bounds?

Derek Blades, no doubt, either disputes the cleric's interpretation of Islam or, perhaps, he just thinks he's a “loony “and not at all representative of a substantive number of moslems; or perhaps he is just a liar. I believe the latter...

International Relations is fraught with hypocracy, duplicity and violence. It is hard to imagine it being easy to support the moral position of one state against another without a sense that one is compromising and is partaking in the murkiness that tends to characterise the relations between large groups of disparate peoples. However, choose one must; and choose with a clear strategy one must.

The non Islamic world must define clearly its position towards the Islamic world. Whatever else it comprises, it must not entertain any appeasement in the face of jihad whatsoever. All policy towards the Islamic world should always be informed by this fundamental and immoveable position.

If Lauren Booth, for example, without a tear of shame in her eye, can maintain that Islam liberates women, Derek Blades can maintain that Ahmedinejad is 6 ft tall and pulls all the babes.

It's cloud cuckoo land and we can only hope that Obama has - finally - begun to have a reality check; and Sarkozy can influence his EU piers to realise that being a quisling is not actually part of Europe's Dna, so we don’t have to be victims of that lethal concoction of rank opportunism and wishful thinking - as Baroness Catherine Ashton would have us be.

Love or hate him, Blair has the measure of the Arab and moslem world. I guess one advantage of having the raving Lauren in the bosom of his immediate family might be to reinforce that virtue.
Blades’s blithe indifference to the violence of Islam and the extent to which it’s victims and those it threatens are obliged to resist it is a laughably stupid and/or dishonest. His excising it from the equation of relevant influences on Israel’s policy towards its neighbors is crass.

Adam B.

Blades, would the Palestinians in the Gulf, who have been "assimilated", include the 100,000 Palestinians who were expelled from Kuwait after Saddam's invasion in the early 90's? Funny you never bleat about that, nor do any of your fellow Israel bashing travellers.

They have not been assimilated, because they have been refused citizenship, by law, in the neighbouring Arab states. Did you not know this? Or are you trying to pretend that they don't want citizenship? And perhaps you can explain why the Jewish refugees from Arab countries, who outnember Palestinian refugees, were integrated into Israeli society for the past 62 years, whilst the Palestinian Arabs have not been integrated by their Arab brethren? (They are the same people Blades). And finally, perhaps you could explain why Palestinian Arabs, alone of all peoples on earth, are awarded refugee status on a hereditary basis? The vast majority of these so-called "refugees" have never even been to the place they are supposedly refugees from. Absurd.

Adam B.

Blades - my mistake - it wasn't 100,000 Palestinians expelled from Kuwait - it was 400,000.

Not that anyone "pro-Palestinian" cared - couldn't blame the Jews, you see.

Truthtriumphs

AZKent.
"A policy of collective punishment against a civilian population not seen since the Nazi era".
( with regard to Gaza 2009)

Your hypocrisy stinks---- there's no other way to describe it.
So, the ongoing genocide against the Darfurians by the Islamist regime in Sudan doesn't count.
Cambodia's killing fields don't count.
The genocide of the Tutsis by the Hutus doesn't count, because, in your book, genocide and brutality are fine because they are not committed by the decent, law-abiding democracies.
In your rant about Iraq, it was presumably OK for Saddam to murder thousands of Kurdish men, women and children by gassing them at Halabja, but not OK for the US and UK to invade in order to halt his reign of terror against his own people.
Similarly, it was OK for Hamas to terrorise the innocent civilians of Sderot with mortars and missiles for 8 years, but not OK for Israel to take defensive action to stop it.
And btw, the distinguished military man, Col.Richard Kemp disagrees with you.
HE said that never in the history of warfare has there been an army like the IDF in its efforts to protect the lives of the civilian population.
And of course there were many more casualties on the Palestinian side, because they went to great lengths to achieve them for its propaganda value, such forcing civilians to be human shields and deliberately firing from civilian areas. A double war crime against the Geneva conventions.
"We love death as you love life"---remember?
When is self-defence "collective punishment"?
When it's Jews defending themselves, of course.
The utterly obscene comparison of the Israeli government taking defensive action to protect citizens, to the Nazi reign of terror is officially described by the EU guidelines as anti-semitic.
I suggest you look at film archive from the Warsaw ghetto, and then compare them to the well-fed and well-armed and well-dressed Palestinians in Gaza.
It's also grotesque and absurd to describe Israel's retrieval of land that is legally hers as theft.
It was originally designated to the Jewish state by the league of Nations, and then by the UN, so it is nonsensical to assert that Israel's actions have contravened UN resolutions.

Your post is short on knowledge, but long on hatred and bigotry.
Try harder next time, and in the meantime, the only fit receptacle for comments like yours is a shredder.

Derek BLADES

AZKent may reply in his own time but I found Truthtriumph’s comment particularly pertinent.

What he did is to ask AZKent to rank Israel's collective punishment of the Palestinians among other atrocities against civilian populations that have occurred since the Nazi era. He mentions Darfur, Cambodia and Rwanda among others. I agree with Truthtrumps that there have indeed been other atrocities against civilian populations in the last 60 years and that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is merely one of them. It is certainly bad but it may not be the worst. Is that the point Trutttitrumps was making?

Truthtriumphs

Derek Blades.
I certainly did NOT anywhere in my post describe the Israeli defensive action of cast lead as an atrocity to be ranked alongside other atrocities.
It is your malevolent and wilful misreading of it that prompts you to write such rubbish.
Israel is and always has been too decent, too patient and too humane in its dealings with its murderous tormentors.
The very fact that you never, but never have any words of rebuke or condemnation for the behaviour of the murderous thugs of Hamas and the rest of their partners in crime against their OWN people who don't tow the line, demonstrates very clearly that you are not driven by love for the Palestinians, for whom you clearly do not give a fig, but rather for hatred of the Jews and their nation state.
I take great pleasure in the discomfiture of people like yourself, who watch Israel going from strength to strength in their remarkable achievements and contributions to mankind, despite all your best efforts to do her down.

Derek BLADES

JOHN ROOSEVELT writes "Derek Blades, no doubt, either disputes [Cleric Choudry's] interpretation of Islam or, perhaps, he just thinks he's a “loony “...or perhaps he is just a liar."

Wrong again JOHN. I have no opinion about this cleric as I had never heard of him before you mentioned his name. And I have never read anything he has written but I will certainly do so next time I have a day or two to waste. From your précis of what he says I agree with you that he is probably a "loony" but I don't see why you think he may also be "a liar".

Incidentally, Adam B and DavidSI – both of whom hide behind noms de plume - are using the childish ploy of addressing me as "Blades". I will not reply to their questions until they show common courtesy and address me as Derek BLADES (upper case optional).

Augustus

Derek Blades - If you were really truthfull you would have to admit that an objective consideration of the huge disparity in size and population
between the Arab world and Israel should be enough to dispel the drivel that the world has been fed that the Arabs are the underdog in some sort of colonial struggle against Jews as a purported colonizing people. And consider
also the reverse disparity between Israelis and Arabs, with the tremendous human achievement of the former as free people, and the contrast when measured against the depressing reality of the Arab world not very far from the bottom of the UN human development index despite all the resources available to them.
It is sheer lunacy to hold Israelis responsible for any part of the utter dysfunctional nature of the Arab world. Think of the Sudanese civil wars, the genocide in Darfur, the savage killings, the long list of atrocities, gender oppression, humiliation of religious minorities, wars, military dictatorships, and no end in sight of violence and murder in the name of Islam across the Arab world. Can the plight of
Palestinian 'occupation' by Jews explain any of these things? Of course it can't, because Palestinians are in effect merely an integral part of this dysfunctional world, and their politics reflect in a heightened sense the problems which so many in the rest of the world want to avoid discussing for fear of being denounced as politically incorrect. The story of Israel's success is really a gift to the Arab-Muslim world, if only they cared to acknowledge and understand it.

Truthtriumphs

Blades.
"I will not reply to their questions until they show common courtesy".

Is that a threat or a promise?
Could I politely suggest that you disappear altogether?

Adam B.

Great way of avoiding the question Blades.

Adam B.

Truthtriumphs, excellent points. By the way, you may be interested to learn that Blades' concerns for humanity can be rather selective. Blades, have you worked for the Communist tyranny in Beijing, which really has committed the worst atrocities imaginable?

JOHN ROOSEVELT

Derek Blades: never heard of Cleric Choudry, ha? Never read anyone's posts addressed to you either?

Try the link referred to in the post addressed to you by Worried:

http://us.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2010/10/29/ps.cleric.choudary.cnn?hpt=T2

Derek BLADES

Augustus courteously addresses me in the following terms:

"Derek Blades - [Adam B. Tuttitrumps et al. please note] - If you were really truthfull you would have to admit that an objective consideration of the huge disparity in size and population
between the Arab world and Israel should be enough to dispel the drivel that the world has been fed that the Arabs are the underdog in some sort of colonial struggle against Jews as a purported colonizing people."

I hgave never suggested that the Arabs are victims of any kind of "colonial struggle". That is your invention.

I am, however, happy to agree with you that, over the last several hundred years the contribution of Jewish people, both inside and outside Israel, to Western culture and science has been far greater than that of Arabs both in their own countries and abroad.

Indeed I would go further and say that Jewish people have made a beneficial contribution to the welfare and progress of the human race that is quite far out of proportion to their small number.

But I do not conclude from any of this that the Israeli state, Israeli settlers and IDF thugs have the right to make life insufferable for the people of the West Bank and Gaza.

JOHN ROOSEVELT

Derek Blades:"But I do not conclude from any of this that the Israeli state, Israeli settlers and IDF thugs have the right to make life insufferable for the people of the West Bank and Gaza."

Derek, is there any active military on Earth you would not describe as "thugs" - Chinese, Russian, iranian, Lebanese, Hamas, British, American etc? I am trying to understand your moral "distinction" here.

You seem to imply that the IDF is somehow acting more brutally than any other military, and that miltary action is happening in vacuo, toally without any motivation except an untainted desire to oppress for its own sake and indulge the Israelis in some inveterate bloodlust.

Are you bonkers?

Adam B.

Whislt, Blades, Hamas and Fatah make life wonderful for the Israelis, don't they? By the way, the "thugs" of the IDf have stopped their country being exterminated several times, and as most Israelis serve in it, it follows that you consider most Israelis "thugs." How...enlightened.

Did you work for the Communist dictatorship in Beijing?

Derek BLADES

JOHN ROOSEVELT asks me "... is there any active military on Earth you would not describe as 'thugs'?".

Young people dressed up as soldiers, carrying lethal weapons, and charged with "pacifying" people whom they regard as inferiors will always behave in a thuggish fashion. They may be Russian, Chinese, American, British, Rwandan, Indonesian, etc. or, as in the case under discussion, Israeli. If you don't believe me look at www.breakingthesilence.com, the Goldstone Report, Haaretz, Al Jazeera documentaries or any of the main-line broadsheets in Europe or America. You could even go the occupied West Bank and see for yourself.

JOHN ROOSEVELT

Derek Blades: "Young people dressed up as soldiers, carrying lethal weapons, and charged with "pacifying" people whom they regard as inferiors will always behave in a thuggish fashion. They may be Russian, Chinese, American, British, Rwandan, Indonesian, etc."

Phew, Derek..for a moment there I was worries you were making a genuine distinction, when you were vilifying the IDF..

Adam B.

Blades, I have been to what you call the "West Bank" - many times. Your point is?

And interesting to learn that you get your "information" from Al Jazeera, Haaretz (whose editor said that "Israel needs to be raped") , a far left pacifist pressure group and the Goldstone report, whose authors attacked Israel publicly before the "investigation" (public lynching) even started.(And let's not forget the evidence of Israeli victims which "disappeared" from the final report).

Good to see you consult such objective news outlets.

Did you indeed work for the Communist authorities in Beijing - the ones who mowed down thousands in Tianenmen Square?

Seems you have a problem with armies generally - including the British one?

Adam B.

Blades, I have been to what you call the "West Bank" - many times. Your point is?
And interesting to learn that you get your "information" from Al Jazeera, Haaretz (whose editor said that "Israel needs to be raped") , a far left pacifist pressure group and the Goldstone report, whose authors attacked Israel publicly before the "investigation" (public lynching) even started.(And let's not forget the evidence of Israeli victims which "disappeared" from the final report).
Good to see you consult such objective news outlets.
Seems you have a problem with armies generally - including the British one?

Drakken

Well Blades I still see your moral compass is still screwed up. You call what Israel did in it's defense a warcrime, I call it warfare, and as far as I am concerned they did not go far enough.