It's the Saudis, stupid

Worried

Yup.

Step one: Don't buy any bananas!

Sorry, oil. Typo.

Jon_Boy

I think it especially interesting that the Islamists do not want their kids watching western media, TV or movies.

Thye all too well appreciate the power of propiganda and that is why all media is tightly state controlled in their countries. In the West we have lost direct state control of the media but it would it be a complete lie to claim it is free it is a highly developed propiganda machine in the hands of a Western elite and in many cases in conjunction with Saudi investment with highly questionable agendas and propiganda objectives. The Islamists are more than willing to let our rich and decadent western neomarxists do their dirty work and even make them think they are riding the Islamist tiger but they aren't stupid enough to let them have access to their own kids and population's.

jojo

Congratulations! You live in a Muslim country!

Did you know that many of my American friends will no longer travel to London because they don't want their tourist dollars going to a country that has been overtaken by Muslims.

Brits: Get a backbone, will you please?

Gerry C

There was a great deal of surprise and 'shock horror' expressed in the various media reports of the Panorama 'discoveries'. Clearly the shocked writers had never read the Qu'ran or the Hadith. Or any Arabic MSM. Or pretty much anything related to the issue, actually. And it seems some Plod has recently blamed the EDL for "the rise of Islamic extremism". Cart? Horse? Why have we not heard about the impending prosecution of these 'teachers' for hate crimes, incitement to racial hatred, child abuse...? Oh... sorry, of course. MUTM politics!

(Mustn't Upset The Muslims!)

Jason from AZ

Let's see, due to Muslim terrorists and Muslim objections to profiling, the rest of us have to accept being groped before boarding planes. And due to Muslim terrorism, the West is forced to expend billions of dollars for security measures that could otherwise be used to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure or help to provide medical care to our citizens.

Yet, upon whom do Westerners dislike, hate, and chose to take out their frustrations? Well, according to recently released FBI statistics, Jews are once again, by a wide margin, the most frequent target of hate crimes.

Could it be that Westerners are so darn dumb and complacent, that the Saudis and other Muslim groups are explointing us and we don't even realize it and don't even care?

Ghassem

As an ex-Muslim I must admit that Philips has said it well.

When will the authorities investigate hatred indoctrination in Islamic schools. And why is the public taxpayer underwriting this hatred indoctrination of hapless children?

Of course the answer lies with the leftard politically correct classes who in their hearts, they bear a deep hatred of western enlightenment. The leftards are the enablers of the new fascism.

AF

Panorama nicely summerised.
Melanie,
kindly keep your eye on this one,it needs plenty of oxygen.

journeyman

From National Review Online:
Saudi Textbooks:

" Nearly two years after the deadline by which the Kingdom's educational curriculum was to be completely reformed , as the US Commission for Religious Freedom wrote to the President last week-

"This promise remains unfulfilled "

Saudi textbooks teach , along wih other noxious lessons , that Jews and Christians are "enemies" and they dogmatically instruct that various groups of "unbelievers " --apostates ( which includes Muslim moderates who reject Wahhabi doctrine ) Polytheists ( which includes Shiites) and Jews should be killed.
Under the Saudi Education Ministry's method of rote learning , these teachings amount to indoctrination starting in first grade and continuing through high school , where militant jihad on behalf of
"truth" is taught asa sacred duty.
They are shipped and distributed to by a vast Sunni infrastructure established with Sudi oil wealth to Muslim communities throughout the world . Their reactions though have alternated over the years between insisting that reforms have already been made and stalling for time by stating that reforms would take several years to complete, banking on the hope that American attention would drift.
Meanwhile, Saudi Royals have stepped up their philanthropy to higher education around the world for which they have garnered many encomiums and awards.
Hardly a moth goes by without news reports that one of the princes is endowing a new center of Islamic and Arab studies ,or a buisness or scientific department at a foreign university--so far the list includes , Oxford, Georgetown, Berkeley, Berlin,Harvard, Moscow, Sarajevo,Australia and many others.
This is not the time for heaping unqualified praise on the aging monarch for promoting " knowledge based education " - extending the hand of friendship to peopl of other faiths " - " promoting principals of moderation, tolerance and mutual respect " --and the like ( all phrases from Secretary Clinton's " salute " last summer to King Abdullah for his philanthropy. "
End Quote:

At what demographic/democratic point of civilzational Russian Roulette gamble, with the deeds to the farm, do pull the trigger for the last time in this endless conflict to find we have lost lost?

revolution

Can you imagine Tony the phony Blair calling for democratic elections in Saudi?
Blair said we welcome their diversity while the muslim version of the Trojan horse was being built on British welfare benefits.

Nils

We have laws against hatespeech. Use them!

Merlyn

Taking a look at the weak British officialdom, not one looked as if he had any real spine, we Brits [sorry Europeans] are down the tubes. Close the schools down and stop the Saudi 'philanthropy'.
We need to find alternative energy sources, which there are, but governments are funded by oil money. .eg. Bush

Derek BLADES

Jon_Boy descrtibes the Western media as "a highly developed propiganda machine in the hands of a Western elite".

This is the first time I have seen Rupert Murdoch described as "elite". But you make a good point.

tiki

I saw the report and I was thinking....."As you sow, so you will reap". Instead of strongly protesting against the 'hijacking of Britain by Islam, the 'intelligent elite clowns of the Left, together with their 'manipulating Muslim brothers, are violently protesting against Israel, calling for boycots, chaining themselves opposite an AHAVA store over a few appartements being build. Poor you, but, you can't blame only stupid Brits...., bankrupt Ireland is doing the same.

Edward in the USA

I don't understand the concern over Pakistani nukes coming under the sway of islamists. I am concerned over British nukes coming under the sway of islamists.

Matthew Roberts

So lets expend all our energies to stop those terrible BNP teachers brainwashing our children. This country has its priorities all wrong and makes me sick.We deserve all thats coming

Andy Gill

I am beginning to think the only way of stemming this Islamofascist tide is some sort of direct action.

Targeting Saudi-funded enterprises would serve notice on the establishment that we will resist the dhimmification of this country.

Mr Sponge

Check this out on the Archbishop Cranmer blog.

Lt Col Allen West sums up Islam very well. Our politicians should be made to watch this.......over and over again until it sinks into their dull brains.

http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/

Margaret Muller-Johansson

Shame!

Ricky

It's not just the Saudis we should be concerned about.

North Korea rattle sabres and diverts world attention.

Start a careful watch on Iran and Hezbollah. There's trouble ahead. The Dear Leader works in close concert with the Iranian thugocracy.

Robert Bruce Lewis

No, Melanie, it's the Chinese who are "playing the longest and the shrewdest game in history," and they are going to "reel in, like a fish on a line" not only the Saudis AND the Brits AND the Americans, but also your favourite littel country in the Middle East after they use the war you're trying to incite against Iran as an excuse for repudiating the dollar as the reserve currency for purchase of energy resources. The Saudis can't hold a candle to them, for patience and determination.

Zed

You will find that the vast majority of Muslims born and bred in this country reject Saudi Wahabiism. If you've grown up with friends of varying races and beliefs, you will at least question these bigotted ideas. I thought the Panaroma programme was cheap journalism. Unfortunately most viewers won't make the distinction between the Saudi influenced zeolots and the moderate majority.

C Powell

Until we accept that the problem is with Islamic schools and mosques (not other faith schools), until we accept and state publicly that not all cultures are of equal worth and value and that in Britain, everyone living here – whether a citizen or not – has to abide by British / Western values, until we enforce this by closing down such schools/mosques/prosecuting those who perpetrate this vile and dangerous rubbish, until we face down those who threaten violence (however obliquely) unless they get their way, until we stop treating people as members of communities however defined but as individual citizens with no more rights than anyone else and no special rights because of their colour/faith/sex/whatever, until we shun all those who appease and embrace fascists and extremists (yes, I mean Livingstone and those who excuse him because he’s a “character” or some such nonsense), until we stand up for our values proudly, until we do this and more we will never defeat extremism.

Oh – and let’s stop all Saudi funding of schools/mosques in this country.

EDDIE

No one mentions the dire effect of the Media in this cowardly appeasement process especially the Guardian groupies who run the BBC newsrooms in both radio and TV. These fanatics abuse our freedom of speech in order to undermine our way of life.

DougS

How hollow Michael Gove sounded - 'this can't be allowed' - 'this is unacceptable' etc etc.

He's probably gone back to sleep now!

John.

Robert Bruce Lewis; I hope the Chinese do reel us and all the others in. They are hard-headed pragmatic realists and put up with no nonsense from anyone. No whingeing or special pleading in China. Having worked there I can see that they deserve to be the power of the future. They make sure that they have the educated professionals to fulfil their own needs - if not, the imported experts are allowed in on work permits not given passports, so no immigraton problem. There are no strikes. There is little crime. Why? Because punishments fit the the crimes. It is a well-ordered, efficient society. I long for an end to our feeble appeasement of every special pleader who comes along.

Gordon Ross

I do love you, Melanie. You say it all, just the way it is !

paul howells

what has happened to england? my dad died defending her as did my uncle..now these barbarians are being coddled by the goverment..lets use commons sense and eliminate these horrible schools..or england will be no more..dad i am sorry about england now

phil

Robert Bruce Lewis
November 23rd, 2010 10:36am ---You would be amusing if you were not serious ,you have read too much Michael Moore nonsense --can you think of one good reason why "the littel country" would want to go to war with Iran ? -To enhance its budget?- to acquire territory?- to become popular?-to make the shekel a reserve currency? to have a chance in the Eurovision song contest ?-well I have exhausted my imagination but maybe you can do better .

Frank P

I've sent for the Rosetta Stone language course (in Arabic). May as well understand what our new masters are saying to each other as we dissolve into Dhimmitude.

Neil Craig

Once again a lot of the world's troubles come down to oil money.

This is a somewhat sideways solution but if we had other sources of power nobody would have this stranglehold. We do have. If allowed to build as many nuclear plants as there is a market for oil we would have no power shortahe. Oil would still be needed for aircraft & many cars but the supply/demand ratio would push prices down. If we encourage the development of shale oil, for which there are reserves exceeding Saudis manifold we would do even better. There is also oil grown from algae in the near future.

Howeveer vicious a consipracy is it is unlikely to get far without money.

The solution to most political problems is improved technology. That & that alone is the solution that brought European culture to world leadership. If we drop that, as we are increasinly doing no show of courage will save us. We can destroy ourselves, fundamentalist Islam cannot. This is why I regard the eco-fascist movement as a far bigger threat.

Though I would not be surprised to find the saudis paying them too.

phil

Ghassem
November 23rd, 2010 5:25am Of course I am sympathetic to what you have said but I think it is not just lefty,s it is also the misplaced British sense of fair play taken to extremes ,and the ignorance displayed by the same sort of Brits who ran our nation in the thirties ,head in the sand stuff and "oh these people are terribly nice and they do have the oil you know and they will buy our planes"
-------------------------------
-I do fear for their children who are brought up to believe I am a monkey or a pig and that I wish to dominate the world ,when I cannot even dominate my own "friends" on the CH wall ,some of whom are no better .:)--Education is the only way and that will take a long time ,both in Saudi and here .

Michael White

From BBC News, February 2007:-

Dr Sumaya Alyusuf of the King Fahad Academy said no one there had read the texts, parts of which label Jews as "repugnant" and Christians as "pigs". But she told the Guardian newspaper they had no place in the school.

Schools minister Jim Knight has ordered an inquiry into the Saudi-funded independent school in west London.

Caption: "I've also set up a committee to check through the rest of our texts to make sure there's nothing that could be similarly misinterpreted.
Dr Sumaya Alyusuf"

Michael White

I'm glad to see that Ofsted will be tightening up on ALL faith schools. Hopefully we'll catch all that inflammatory material circulating amongst Christian schools, as well as the spectre of volatile Buddist material that we all know about, not to mention the highly poisonous curriculum for Taoism, Hinduism and Judaism that sweeps Britain.

Septimus Oates

If they do try and 'sort out' faith schools the hammer will inevitably fall on CofE schools, because they will refuse to single out Islamic schools in the face of screams of discrimination. Every Muslim parent has the right to have their child educated according to the own wishes, but if they send there children to schools that promote treason, terror and hatred of non-adherents then they have crossed the line and only have themselves to blame for the consequences.

Andy, Leeds

The flaw behind John Ware's latest Islam-bashing load of tripe was simple, but alas the sheeple will never see it because they, thanks to the freemasonic illuminati pulling the strings they fail to see, accept anything fed to them through the crass (I mean 'mass') media.

There was NO mention AT ALL of the children who study at these institutions. If anybody had half at least half a brain cell they'd have questioned this. John Ware is nothing more than an Islamophobe and an Islam basher. To single out Islam as the only religion where such so-called teachings are given proves Ware's own prejudice, bigotry and hatred. Like a tabloid rag article, he touches briefly on other shocking facts (i.e. extremism in Christianity and Judaism- but let's not admit it, ey? It's better to live either in total ignorance or complete denial...) but manipulates the viewer by glosing them over. How? By saying that the teachings emanating from the Islamic perspective are 'more shocking'. It beggars belief. However, when you gladly believe everything the media feed you, it's hardly surprising you're going to be shocked at any of the findings of the latest Ware Witch Project. One other gob-smacker was that of an institution relying on religious decisions from places that give apparently alarming said decisions. Hang on, don't we Brits do the same? There's us praising Churchill as this hero and inspirational god-like figure, when it's the same Churchill who left millions of Bengali Indians to starve to death, called for gas attacks on "uncivilised tribes" in Iraq and likened Islam to a human form of rabies.

If you're going to cherry pick in demonising Islam as the well-rounded, conscientious and knowledge-seeking people you all are, how about you cherry pick for everyone and everything? That's right: it's hard when you've allowed yourself to believe that Islam is the single threat facing mankind in the 21st century, just like the Communists apparently were post World War II.

Back to my initial question regarding who the pupils are, which I'm guessing you've not figured out yet, I think you might like to take a lesson in not jumping on the bandwagon and not jumping to conclusions, especially when you've no prior knowledge of the very issue in question. It's embarrassingly naive to mount your self-righteous high horse and deliver judgement when you have none of the actual knowledge John Ware knows you don’t have. The pupils are Saudi. They are Saudi children who, in addition to following a British national curriculum, follow the Saudi one, too. The reason being that at least one of their parents is a student studying for a degree at a British university (which debunks the West-hating myth- if they truly hated the West, they wouldn’t come here), therefore meanwhile, it’s important they keep their children up to date with their Saudi education for when they return to Saudi Arabia.

I’m fortunate enough to know Saudis and I must say: what a lovely bunch of people. I’m sure the allegations in this latest witch hunt will come as a shock to them. I’ve never encountered a Saudi child who’s brainwashed enough to go about slandering people of other religions, let alone know about corporal punishment. (indeed there’s a Hadith stating that no ethnicity or person is superior to any other, except in their righteousness towards God- meaning the whole ‘Jews are monkeys’ allegation is as usual, another copy-and-paste tactic used by Ware. Incidentally, did those pages come from a schoolbook? Very close camera zoom-in there; could have been any book). Did anybody else fail to question the authenticity of the pages where there were pictures of hands and a foot? No translation or explanation of what was written. Seemed like pages on anatomy to the reasoned viewer. So in reality, what we actually have in this report are a few text books which ALLEGEDLY are being used in post-curricular schools for SAUDI CHILDREN, but NO SCHOOLS REVEALED TO BE USING THEM. John Ware, you’re a disgrace.

I think you know what I’m going to conclude- if not, then please re-read this post.

As for ‘when will the government listen’? The government won’t, because they can’t. There are people higher than governments with their own agendas, and it is they who decide, not David Cameron. Do you really think they’d be happy if David Cameron listened to his people and got in the way of the illuminati?

Raymond Douglas

But what our establishment IS good at, is giving Christian schools a hard time ! Dare to have a strong Christian ethos within the State sector, and you will have OFSTED, and others, crawling all over you !But, because we deem it racist to protest about Islamic extremism within our schools, we simply close our collectives eyes and pretend all is well !

Linda Smith

So, Andy of Leeds thinks it's alright for antisemitism to be taught in England if one of the chilren's parents is Saudi.

My mind is boggling!! I hope Andy is not in a job that requires logical thinking. Or we're doomed.

Linda Smith

I don't read anywhere that the people running these schools have been arrested for "hate crime" against Jews, nor have I read of any call for such arrest.
I think I'll write to my MP asking for an explanation.

Linda Smith

"These alarming BBC revelations validate prescient warnings made almost two decades earlier by the late respected British scholar of Islam, Dr. Mervyn Hiskett, in Some to Mecca Turn to Pray. Hiskett noted then (i.e., in 1993, p. 235) the prevailing opinion among leaders of the British Muslim community that unless Muslim immigrants to Britain were allowed unrestrained access to Islamic Law, Sharia, in all aspects, Britain was to be regarded, Dar-al-Harb, or the House of War, i.e., the target of jihadism. Citing what he characterized as “a more urbane but some may consider ominous statement of the Muslim intention to brook no opposition,” Hiskett quoted Zaki Badawi (d. 2006), a Muslim scholar, and former Director of the Islamic Cultural Center, London, who was made an honorary Knight Commander of the British Empire (KBE) in 2004, and also appointed by The Duke of Castro as a Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Order of Francis I. Incidentally Badawi never became a British subject although he had lived in the country for more than 30 years, and had received all manner of honors there.

Badawi opined,

A proseltyzing religion cannot stand still. It can either expand or contract. Islam endeavors to expand in Britain. Islam is a universal religion. It aims at bringing its message to all corners of the earth. It hopes that one day the whole humanity will be one Muslim community, the ‘Umma’

The “urbane,” “moderate” Muslim Badawi’s “vision” for British society—so recently deemed unthinkable—now seems eminently plausible, as Britain appears well on its way to full integration into the obscurantist Muslim umma, rife with traditional Islamic Jew-hatred, and all other aspects of Sharia-sanctioned, totalitarian barbarity."

Read the full article at http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2010/11/22/teaching-british-muslim-youth-cutting-edge-sharia/

Stuart Seacole Smith

Andy, Leeds: I knew a really good Jordanian guy for years at school in the UK. He told me about how he'd been taught as a child in school back home that most jews were only a few inches tall, and that if you flick them with your finger, they'll die.

Anyway, I only speed-read the last few reams of your tome, but I read enough to suggest you take yourself off down the doctor's and see if they can help you out.

Captain Crunchy

@ Andy in Leeds

I've met nice Saudi's too, so what is your point?

Louis Berk

Personally, I think no school should have any link to religion at all and that even includes CofE and Catholic schools. We live in the 21st century and the time to divorce religion from education has come. I find it truly bizarre that the new free school model encourages a religious foundation to be involved. No problem with teaching religion, indeed it remains the only compulsory subject in state education but a school should not be based around it.

That said, I thought this was a particularly weak Panorama. We were really only given one example of a school which may or may not have allowed preachers of questionable Koranic authority to speak and possibly allow children to use the text books. Where were the interviews with the children, or even the teachers to illustrate the impact of these books? If these schools are hotbeds of Islamofascism we know that individuals involved love to grandstand and I am sure that if asked they would have been delighted to spout their vicious tripe to Panorama.

One other obvious flaw with the report is that the majority of muslim children in this country cannot even read/speak arabic. Their home language will be from the asian sub-continent, (with a high degree of illiteracy amongst the speakers)and a large amount of their time will be spent in english speaking classrooms. When are they going to obtain the fluency in arabic to use these text books?

Of course Michael Gove is right to state that he will not allow anti-semitic teaching in schools in the UK. I wish he would use his influence to look into the burden placed on all Jewish schools, places or worship and institutions in the country which have to provide their own security against the hostile surveillance and physical threat they face - but alas no politician so far is brave enough to investigate that state of affairs.

Strange also that he has weakened Ofsted, reduced the scope of the self-assessment schools must prepare prior to an Ofsted and plans to allow 'outstanding' schools to opt out of Ofsted entirely.

So, Mike, exactly how are you going to stamp out anti-semitism in our educational system?

Bottom line, this is a serious issue but I fear one which was dangerously generalised in the programme. What we need is a public enquiry into the involvement of any third-party country - including Saudi Arabia - in the educational provision in this country. Maybe this programme will get the ball rolling (I live in hope) but reading the forecast of apocolyptic doom from some posters in this forum is as dangerously generalised as the programme itself.

John Richardson

"Saudi Arabia is the wellspring of the Sunni Islam jihad against the free world. It is a foaming geyser of fanatical Islamic bigotry against unbelievers and especially Jews. It was Saudi Wahabbism that radicalised the Muslims of Pakistan who, when they immigrated in large number into Britain in the 1980s, accordingly imported with them jihadi educational institutions -- which then radicalised Muslim children born and bred in the UK and turned them into fanatics, often to the utter dismay of their parents."

OK.

So,if this is an accurate analysis,if this all makes sense, I have a couple of questions.

Where are all the terrorist attacks?
What have all these hate filed killers been doing since they were 'children 1980s'?
The above blog suggests that they are organised, isolated from wider society, well financed, ignored by the agencies of The State that should neutralise them and determined to kill; Jew/homosexuals/appostates etc.

SO WHY AM I NOT AWARE OF ANY MURDERS OF JEWS/HOMOSEXUALS/APPOSTATES etc BY THEM IN ALL THIS TIME ????

I have previously addressed by comments and questions to M.Philips but I know she does not usially respond on this blog.

So can someone else help me?

It just that the whole thing strikes me as utterly confused. Detached from reality.

I would drone on and there are other BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS questions....but as I recall these contributions do not seem to get posted...let's see....

John Steadman

Yes, Melanie.
And these "faith" schools - a good idea?
I can barely believe that - despite all this, not to mention the Irish experience - this country is so happy to support and promote sectarian education.

C. Gee

John.
November 23rd, 2010 12:27pm:

Authoritarianism is attractive is it? Tom Friedman and many others would agree with you on China. China has those high-speed trains running on time, alright. Do you think China might be the last stand of Dar el Harb?

C.Gee

John Richardson:

"SO WHY AM I NOT AWARE OF ANY MURDERS OF JEWS/HOMOSEXUALS/APPOSTATES etc BY THEM IN ALL THIS TIME ????"

Only you can answer this question. Are you hard of hearing? Why have you not been reading the news? May I suggest a visit to the website Religion of Peace? Among other useful things, it keeps a running total of attacks by fanatics.

Stephen Rothbart

Andy of Leeds and John just looove those authoritarian regimes like China and Saudi Arabia, which are great places to live if you don't want to have a point of view different from that of their rulers.

In the case of Saudi Arabia, which provided most of the highjackers in 9/11 attack, it's a great place to live as long as you don't want to go to Church or the local synagogue, or are a woman or a homosexual, and are a member of the House of Saud. Otherwise it's a bit of a bummer.

For China, yes, its government suits such a large and diverse population, and as long as you don't want a career in journalism, like free speech, and have not been born female, you can certainly live well there.

Good for you guys!

Oh and Andy, next time I am in Leeds, I must look you up. Hope you will invite me over to stay as your guest.

I hope you won't mind if I tell your children what to do, redecorate your house to my taste, and spread nasty rumours about some of your relatives whom I have never even met.

Given your largesse on the way that Islamists are behaving here, I am sure I won't be any trouble.

Comprehensiveboy

No one seems to understand that opposition must be organised. If there is not an organised legal response for instance the authorities will not be forced to do anything. Remember they are not our protectors playing a clever long game that is so subtle it is beyong our ken - they are just a load of careerists loving their soft life and sense of rightiousness because they dont get 'over excited' like the right wing rabble. As an aside notice that if you put a freedom loving patriotic view forward they will first off accuse you of for instance using 'emotive language'. We are way behind in defence against these tactics and reposts must be practised to put them in their place immediately. Judge the effectiveness by the emotional effect it has on them - the leftist establishment - does it appall them and get them upset? The more upset they are the less effective they will be. After all that is what they do to us. If they can be pressurinsed by Islam they can be presurised by us. Make a complaint to he police based on what you saw if you were offended - the key phrases to use is 'HATE CRIME' or 'RACISM' got that? Ask how many similar complaints they have received and what has been done about your concern. Also, do you think that our freedoms can be protected by people who are afraid to suffer - even afraid to lose out financially when they are attacked in this way let alone die for our freedom? Has this ever happended in history? Oh and anyone who doesn't like my choice of words - goooood! Puuuur! I call that a result. Remember folks - keep it legal, it's terribly important.

BGee

Melanie, I hope the Australians heed your words. I support a ban all immigrants from Islamic countries, until we assess their likelihood of integrating with our society. Britain is dead, unless Wills and Kate can pull Brits out of their 'stunned mullet' attitude and appeasement mentality.

Shami hijacks human rights

So many British commentators spend their time telling us how the Saudis are not as bad as they used to be. That the tokenistic building of one church makes it reformed.

The truth is, they're just getting better at taqiyya.

Is this any kind of 'reformed' country:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1332279/Sumiatis-injuries-Shocking-photos-Indonesian-maid-abused-Saudi-employers.html

Andrew

Someone please tell Andy in Leeds that his tinfoil hat is leaking.

Had this been a BNP school teaching that Muslims were descended from "apes and pigs" and listed the negative traits of Muslims then I have no doubt that they would have been before the judge this morning.

The government will do NOTHING!

charlene

I attend a university in the north east of Engalnd and see a great deal of Muslim students walking around. A week or so ago they had small posters adverstising some event and for me the worrying aspect was all the text was in Arabic. Surely at an English university all advertising posters shoud be in English. The Panaroma report was excellent and shows the reality Israel is up against. As Golda Meir stated, Israel would only have peace when the Palestinians loved their children more than they hated the Jews. That said it all. Nothing has changed as the programme highlighted, but how many will admit the reality? I would like to do my dissertation drawing parallels between Nazi racism,and the propaganda against Jews, and the continuation of Nazi ideology hiding behind anti Israel sentiments endemic in Arab world. Not sure I would be able to and even if allowed what mark I would realitstically be awarded for daring to explore such a controversial matter which no one wants to admit.

Gil

Andy in Leeds talks about 'freemason illuminati' and 'sheeple'. For those who are unaware this is the language of the mentally unbalanced who spray antisemitic comments on the conspiracy websites, eg. David Icke. The ones that hold the Jews responsible for 9/11 etc. So we can safely assume that Andy Pandy is an antisemite, or Judeophobe if he prefers. (Cue for Andy to now comment: 'I'm not antisemitic, just antizionist etc. etc.')

This country has now utterly gone to to hell in a handcart. To echo a poster above, why haven't these schools been closed down yet? Why have no arrests been made? If you had told people 30-40 years ago that this would be the face of modern Britain they would not have believed you.

Dixon

Folks...so many of you identify the problem as Saudi oil money, then you suggest the solution is to stop using oil.

Thats like saying that if the grocer charges too much for your food the answer is to show him up by going on hunger strike.

No, the answer is, not to stop using oil (practically impossible) but to continue using it without paying for it. ie, we (well, the US really) should simply TAKE the oil and cut the Saudis out of the loop.

Dixon

John Richardson says:

"SO WHY AM I NOT AWARE OF ANY MURDERS OF JEWS/HOMOSEXUALS/APPOSTATES etc BY THEM IN ALL THIS TIME ????Jews and apostates:"

All that shows John is how incredibly, mind-bogglingly ignorant you are. These murders are happenning almost daily in every country where there is a sizeable Muslim minority and are government policy in those which have Muslim majorities. Where to begin to educate someone so utterly bereft of a clue as to whats going on around him. I suggest anyone with internet access who is so utterly clueless can only be unaware of these events because he chooses to ignore them.

Dixon

And Sharif Gamal is NBC man of the year!!!!!!!!

maddy1

Although I agree with most, here I am dubious about the singling out of SA.
The SA. connection would only work if say the Saudis give money to one of their British Muslims who knows someone at the BBC who then allows them to strut their stuff, in pre 9/11 days. Same reasoning in education field. The process would only work if you are either weak or susceptible.

Imnokuffar

The only party to openly state what is written by Melanie Philips and to have a detailed set of proposals to both stem and reverse this affliction is the BNP.

TomTom

China should sent 60 million to live in Iran and Europe and the uS should seize Saudi Arabia and remove its elites.

Septimus Oates

@ John Steadman

You appear to want complete state control of education? Currently parents have ultimate responsibility whether they like this fact or even acknowledge it.

Once again to solve the problem of Islamism the hammer appears to be being lined up to smash parental choice.

Deal with the real problem and leave law abiding parents out of it.

Harold

Dixon,

There you are! You hurried away last time before you could give me the references for your articles in the philosophy journals. Would you have a moment now?

Robert Mitchum

If one were to politely refuse a Gay couple a few nights stay at a bed and breakfast, prosecution would follow. Yet teach children this perverted and obscene doctrine and what will happen? Nothing, just a polite note from Gove no doubt, requesting 'clarification'.

John.

John Steadman, Stephen Rothbart: Yes, I would prefer modern China every time, (not of course Mao's China). No immigration allowed whatsoever, no strikes, little crime, no beggars, no scroungers. It is true that female infanticide is a stain on the body politic, but it is also true that adult women are the equals of men. Not everything is perfect, but the reluctance to be tough where toughness is needed that is so apparent in the West is simply not a factor in China. No-one is worried about losing their parliamentary seat or their position in some council. I would judge the quality of a regime by the possibilities for happiness and hope therein. In China there seems to be plenty of scope for both. I have lived and worked there and speak from experience.

John.

John Steadman, Stephen Rothbart: Yes, I would prefer modern China every time, (not of course Mao's China). No immigration allowed whatsoever, no strikes, little crime, no beggars, no scroungers. It is true that female infanticide is a stain on the body politic, but it is also true that adult women are the equals of men. Not everything is perfect, but the reluctance to be tough where toughness is needed that is so apparent in the West is simply not a factor in China. No-one is worried about losing their parliamentary seat or their position in some council. I would judge the quality of a regime by the possibilities for happiness and hope therein. In China there seems to be plenty of scope for both. I have lived and worked there and speak from experience.

jan parker-padley

What do you suggest the average Brit does about this?

MikeW

Would a simple solution to this teaching not just be to have an approved reading list and schools found to be teaching material outside of that fined or shut down?

No point getting hysterical because you don't like it just lobby for a proper solution.

Campbell

John: One has to admire the devil may care way in which you dismiss female infanticide as a stain on the body politic but one which is, it would seem, balanced out or mitigated by adult female equality.

EDDIE

Someone on this blog wrote about the majority of muslims in this country. Remember, silence is also a decision and a positive act

Michael White

Stephen Rothbart - A1 post!

Neil Craig

Continuing my post yesterday I am reminded that it was an Israeli team who developed a cheap process of turning shale into oil at $17 barrel.

I have said before that the Israelis should hold up their outstanding scientific competence as a major strength of western civilisation. Whatever Israel's faults & it has some, that is an overriding boon to humanity.

That process alone will probably, over time, do more to weaken Islamic midievalism than any of Israel's military successes. It also, yet again, discredits ecofascist medievalism but I'm afraid, like dry rot, they will be back shortly with another false scare.

Dagobert

When Channel 4 aired a programme about Islamic extremism the West Midlands police wanted to prosecute the programme makers. How long before the makers of this Panorama programme are threatened by the police?

Dean

@Jan Parker-Padley:
I've posted that question before. The estimable Ms Philips keeps pointing to the problem but she never tells you where to march or how to vote.

Fritigen

Re Dixon Nov 24 1.56am. Just seizing the Saudi oilwells is an excellent idea and probably quite easy to do. The vast majority of the workers are non-Saudis and would probably welcome American or European management.

Jude the Obtuse

Andy, Leeds

"...which debunks the West-hating myth- if they truly hated the West, they wouldn’t come here."

What an astounding display of logical reasoning Andy. That PhD in Philosophy has really broadened you horizons I'll bet.

(Take a look around your city mate and see what's happening.)

wonderer

@Jude the Obtuse
November 24th, 2010 4:57pm
Andy, Leeds

"...which debunks the West-hating myth- if they truly hated the West, they wouldn’t come here."

If you just ask Andy nicely, I'm sure he'll prove to you that neither any of the 9/11 hijackers nor Abdulmutallab, the underpants bomber really studied in the West.

John Richardson

Dixon & C.Gee.

Thanks for the responses.

Personally, I regard insults across a blog as unmanly.
Would you care to provide any actual examples of; "...ANY MURDERS OF JEWS/HOMOSEXUALS/APPOSTATES..."
commited by the murderous radical Muslims who were 'children [here] in the 1989s' for me to research?

That was what I was asking about.
I'll look tomorrow.

Or, if you prefer more insults,try a bit of wit or oraginality...that's if the radicals don't getcha first...

Dave M

"I hope the Chinese do reel us and all the others in. They are hard-headed pragmatic realists and put up with no nonsense from anyone. No whingeing or special pleading in China."

I agree. China will most definitely be the next superpower and I honestly believe America is going into major decline. The big question is will China change and side with Israel when push comes to shove? Possibly it may because China itself has been dogged by Islamic extremism within its borders. It may not suit China to see a totally Islamic Middle East. Also what a massive difference between China and the U.K. China trains and educates its own people in science and technology. England simply imports borrowed skills from abroad to fill in the economic gaps. China stands for something concrete as a nation State with a history that goes back to various dynasties. England tries to create a multicultural, tribal state with no national identity or concept of nationhood. Maybe the penny will drop when China finally puts a man on the moon.

John.

Campbell: You are right to point out that female infanticide -well foetus-cide actually, i.e abortion -is a serious blot on the reputation of China and I'm sorry if I seemed to be too cavalier about it. I'm not. However, let us admit that China is the only country which has so far taken rigorous measures against over-population - probably the most threatening factor facing the whole world at the moment, and one which most nations won't even mention let alone face up to. As I pointed out, unpopular but necessary measures are taken in China, measures that are unmentionable in our pathetic establishments. Do you imagine that the Chinese would countenance the shocking abuses talked about here and perpetrated by the Muslims, for one moment in China? The very notion is laughable.

Solomon2

The Saudi approach described here agrees completely with their 2008 Guidelines on Inter-faith Dialogue: http://solomon2.blogspot.com/2008/06/proposed-islamic-conquest-of-western.html These Guidelines state that the primary purpose of Dialogue is to spread Islam, that diplomatic, cultural, educational, and economic means are to be used to spread the Dialogue principles, that criticism of Islam OR MUSLIMS is to be rejected, and "The centrality of the Palestinian issue and the liberation of
Jerusalem." http://www.kacnd.org/eng/research/National%20Vision%20for%20Interaction%20with%20World%20Cultures.pdf

Dixon

"Harold
November 24th, 2010 10:56am

Dixon,

There you are! You hurried away last time before you could give me the references for your articles in the philosophy journals. Would you have a moment now?"

No Harold, I stuck around for a week answering all your points, carefully, one at a time when everyone else had moved on to three or four subsequent stories and only you were still on that thread, just long enough to register that you had not one response to any of my points. Then I predicted you would be back with ad-hominem only. Anyone who wants to verify this can go back and read our solitary exchanges in the thread starting 9th November "Cutting and Running").

Well you are, my prediction was correct, in lieu of arguments in support of your views you instead imply that Ima liar. Of course Im not going to reveal to all and sundry who "Dixon" is,I have a life and a career to protect. In a world where its now possible to lose both just for speaking ones mind.

What have you got? Carte to give US your "real name"?

No, you aren't that big a fool so how can you use anonymity as a criticism of others?

Dixon

"John Richardson
November 24th, 2010 6:27pm

Dixon & C.Gee.

Thanks for the responses.

Personally, I regard insults across a blog as unmanly.
Would you care to provide any actual examples of; "...ANY MURDERS OF JEWS/HOMOSEXUALS/APPOSTATES..."
commited by the murderous radical Muslims who were 'children [here] in the 1989s' for me to research?

That was what I was asking about.
I'll look tomorrow.

Or, if you prefer more insults,try a bit of wit or oraginality...that's if the radicals don't getcha first..."

I cannot answer for any other here but I certainly never cast an insult. I said you were ignorant.Thats not an insult but a contention easily confirmed.

Just one example:
"'Honour killing' father begins sentence:A Muslim man is beginning a life sentence for murdering his daughter because he disapproved of her Christian boyfriend...."
Source: BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3149030.stm)

Took me all of fifteen seconds to pick that off Google. Internet is a great way to fill a vacuum, you should try it sometime.

What excuse have you for defending such people?

Dixon

"Fritigen
November 24th, 2010 3:02pm

Re Dixon Nov 24 1.56am. Just seizing the Saudi oilwells is an excellent idea and probably quite easy to do. The vast majority of the workers are non-Saudis and would probably welcome American or European management."

We (and it was the British I believe)should never have allowed them to think they "owned" it in the first place. We (Westerners and now Asians) prospect it, extract it, refine it, ship it, use it and have created all uses there are for it.In what sense is it naturally the property of a bunch of nomads (which they were) who happenned to be on the surface in the area at the time? Maybe giving them ownership of the oil was just another of those numbnut attempts to buy off the colonial subjects by the British Empire which, like much of its legacy, now constitutes a persistent problem.

Dixon

"Andy, Leeds

"...which debunks the West-hating myth- if they truly hated the West, they wouldn’t come here.""

Uh,no, they were BORN here!

Harold

Dixon
November 24th, 2010 7:43pm
The request was innocent of all the sinister implications you see in it. I merely hoped that your learned articles would provide the arguments you never provide here. You are evidently proud of your opinions. I assume they are indeed supported by argument. If you feel it too dangerous to reveal your identity to the world, could you at least provide a summary of your arguments here?

Harold

Dixon,
Just to be clear: "A" tried to get you to provide some arguments for the opinions that are clearly your pride and joy. You huffed and puffed ("carefully") for two or three days. You appeared unaware that your huffing and puffing, however careful, did not constitute an argument. I joined in at the last to point out the lack of argument with regard to just one of your responses to "A" (about Hitler and vegetarians).

It was suggested you publish - your performances provide, if not instruction, then entertainment. You bridled - you do already publish.

Then the pair of you disappeared off.

I don't know about "A", but I am still interested. I understand you feel your life would be in danger if you gave me the references. But what are the arguments you have set out in the learned journals that support the assertions you make here?

Edward McLaughlin

Harold

And you please: your full name, address and telephone number please?

Harold

Edward McLaughlin
November 24th, 2010 11:02pm

?

All I am after (and "A", I assume)is the arguments that support Dixon's entertaining assertions. What has my name and address got to do with it, or his - he talked of his contributions to journals and I wanted to read them. I genuinely did not know he feared for his life if he gave me the references. Thoughtless, I know, but without malice.

Celato

Charlene:

The main problem I can see with your dissertation proposal is that you frame it in language which suggests you've already drawn conclusions without having conducted your research.

A second problem - unless you're writing a PhD thesis - is that it's far too ambitious to fit the usual time-frame and resources available at BA/MA levels.

Here's how you might get the go-ahead (and possibly, even, a good mark!):

'This dissertation explores a hypothesis that expressions of anti-Israel sentiment widely disseminated by the Arab media are essentially racist. My intention is to compare and contrast the anti-Israel rhetoric in X major newspapers/broadcasting stations with the rhetoric of Nazi propaganda in an attempt to discover if there are parallels.'

If and when you go on to PhD level, you might be able to address questions such as 'endemic sentiment' and 'hidden' messages, but for the moment, suggest you stick to what's manageable.

NB: Strongly recommend you learn Arabic if you want to be 100% sure of meaning and nuance - maybe some of those Muslim students at your uni could help!!

John Richardson

Dixon.

Thank you for the response.

I certainly would like to accept that you do not
(almost anonymously as you do not give your full name)
wish to insult others on blogs. However, the facts rather speak for themselves.
Now, let's see if you are honest enough to correct your...errors.

"All that shows John is how incredibly, mind-bogglingly ignorant you are
..........
...I suggest anyone with internet access who is so utterly clueless can only be unaware of these events because he chooses to ignore them."

Fact 1)

You suggest I deliberatley ignore the multiple murders of innocents.
This is an insult.
To say; 'It's not an insult 'cos you do/are', would be beneath some of the young students I teach.

2) You utterly fail to give ANY examples of the case I clearly and explicitly requested.
To simplify things for you,
no-one had refered to 'honour killings'.
Certainly not me.
Simple.

Over to you, I'll try to check this blog again tonight,if not tomorrow around 8am.

...oh,and if you have the time...any chance of those pesky examples?
You 15second search was a failure you see.

John Richardson

...still waiting.

Margaret Muller-Johansson

What made me sad wasn't only that they teach the kids hate but they put the little girls a crazy outfits like they was going Halloween party or something, it is all craziness not spiritual teaching, if the government don't take an action about this now, we will have a civil war and I hope it is not the year 2010.

Scary Biscuits

The main reason western politicians are so reluctant criticise the Saudis is not so much stupidity as corruption. The understanding is that if you're nice to them, they'll look after your retirement. Who do think is funding John Major and Chancellor Kohl, and Bush Snr, to name but a few, this month and every month through fake directorships?

It's much worse than our politicians allowing them to fund extremism in our schools, bad as that is. It's the willful ignoring of their role in 9/11. It's their involvement with the Taliban and, worst of all, the arms sales. Saudia Arabia must be in the top ten of countries we are likely to go to war with in the next 20 years and yet we're selling them our best fighter planes and ships in greater quantities than we own ourselves.

michael

The Sharia IQRA is here thriving and LEA funded.

Muhammad

Wow - nice to see xenophobia is alive and kicking. Yes, the Saudi curriculum should not be taught in British schools, but claiming we Muslims are taught to hate Jews and Christians is nonsense. Jews and Christians are homoured as "People of the Book". Muslims are not even allowed to hate atheists. Our religion is a peaceful one inspite of the foolish terorists who twist our religion to justify their evil actions. I think the terrorists should be rooted out as well as the BNP bigots who have congregated en masse here! But to blame Islam is to show ignorance to the true ideals of our faith.

Bilal

This is such a refreshing piece, atlast someone has the courage to write & report on this very serious cancer which is affecting both Islam & British soceity. I am a Muslim but cannot stand the hatred that Saudi's teach. I wish we could have a regime change in Saudi & the world would be a much better place.
Think in these terms
Who fund the Taliban - Pakistani ISI on behalf of Saudi's
Who were the 9/11 bomber's - 99% Saudi's
What is going on in Chechnya & Kashmir -Saudi funded slaughter
What is happening to British Muslims - Radicalized by Saudi Wahabi's
I hope the world government's wake up to this & until they cleanse the world of the Saudi regime & its religious fanatics this planet is going to be a very dangerous place to live for all & Islam will also be hijacked by these nutcases.
Peace to all

kamil

what a load of rubbish!! i can not believe what a brainwashing article this is. there is no proof whatsoever... you are just taking some readers for a ride!!

fdr

Why do we complain about human rights in China and not Saudi Arabia?
China does not propagate hatred.

Douglas

True. And it's the females in England, who are probably the most "sympathetic" to the savage Muslim barbarians, who will bear the brunt of the evil. Sharia law is biased against women in the sense that women are required to be subservient or else stoned to death.

Augustus

Muhammad, Nov.27th, 10.33am -
So why does a young Muslim man, in the prime of life, with a full life ahead, go and blow himself up in a plane load of innocent people? In your countries religion is the main source of education, is this not
the only spring from which terrorists drink until their thirst is quenched? These young people are not born terrorists,
and they don't materialize as terrorists overnight. Islamic teaching plays the only role in
weaving his ideological fabric,
thread by thread, and does not
allow other sources, either of a scientific or humanist nature,
to play a role. Do these teachings not distort this young man and kill his humanity?
It is not the terrorist himself who distorts the religious teachings. When you recite to a child in his early years the verse: 'They will be killed or crucified, or have their hands or feet cut off', regardless of the verse's interpretation, and regardless of the reasons it was
conveyed, or it's time, you have surely made the first step
towards creating a terrorist.

Sami ikraw

Muhammad I don't think I agree what you say. I was brought up to hate strangers, Kuffars non believers, in my house, my aunt house, my friends house, the religion school, almost everywhere I go I heard negative energy towards non believers, where did you hear this? I don't know what they teach you but not every muslim learn the same, I heard a lot of hate towards innocent Jewish and Christians and Atheist and Gays even Muslims who don't cover up themselves, who go to the movies, who listen music, who drink, who laugh, who smoke, who wear shorts or behave like westerns, in my personal experience I heard this dislikes before, luckily I don't believe any of this nonsense but there are some people who take this seriously and want to do bad things, i think until we tell the truth each other as a community and talk about our teachings and our attitude towards strangers nothing is going to change we will only go circles and circles and repeat the same things again and again and not achieve anything.

John Richardson

Sami ikraw
November 28th, 2010 10:14am

Such brave words.

Personally, I wish you well in your decision to be honest and face the truth.
In fact, may Almighty God be with you.

Two aspects of the problem however.
1) The negative energy of hatred seems essential to Islamic identity.
2) Hysterical commentary on the contemporary situation, devoid of any passing reference to reality, has mutated into an ugly and vainglorious creature. Completely detached from reality. See my comments above Sami.

Do you ever wonder if both opposing, extreme camps, are being manipulated against each other?

michael

Think Sharia is unjust?...The Saudis are pedalling Wahhabism the roots of extremism and a real toe curler.