Israel's false friend

Veracity

So why did the Board of Deputies invite him ? Why did they not invite Stephen Harper ? Patently someone in the Board had not done their homework.Why did those listening not get up and walk out? Thank you for exposing this hypocrisy

Paul Freeman

And note how both the survey of Palestinian opinion and the "study" have been comprehensively ignored by the British media to maintain the lie that the obstacle to peace is Israel.

Welcome to Britain, mouthpiece of the jihad.

Jerry

Deeds are, of course, deeds, but occasionally words are deeds as well. Mr. Osborne's insisting upon framing the discussion of the Middle East in terms of Israel alone is a direct assault upon formal logic as well as common sense. Not mentioning the shortcomings of the Palestinian position is to be delusional or ignorant or hate-filled. These categories are not independent of one another. Indeed, they hold hands in a tight little circle. Would you not like to revise your framing of this matter, Mr. Osborne?

Whispering_jack

Abbas' recent speech in which he showed his adulation for the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who helped Hitler and Eichmann plan the Final Solution for the Jews is the icing on the cake.

Those who support either Palestinian regime - Hamas or the PA are in bed with the worst kind of fascism the world has known.

Charlene

Excellent well said Melanie. This Coalition government is not to be trusted, they have made promises in their election manifestos and completely done u turns and not delivered. Wonder if Canada is prospersous due to Mr Harper's stand on Israel which is a promise from the Abrahamic covenant that those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse cursed. Look at our student riots yesterday. That excellent panorama documentary on BBC about the evil indoctrination of children with roots to Saudi, did George perchance mention that? Methinks George man with forked tongue. Keep exposing the blatant hypocrisy Melanie.

tiki

If Mick Davis (Big Mick), head of the Jewish Leadership Council, can blame Israel, without any shame with threatening and interfering in HIS luxery life style, because of THEIR politics, than who can blame Mr. Osborn? (Jerusalem Post//Blogg Isi Leibler). About the 'latest claims of the 'Palestinians being a big lie....ALL their claimes are based on lies, including the claim that they are
'Palestinians, they are ARABS. The Jews were the 'original Palestinians!

nice

It seems pretty clear that MP doesn't want the Israeli gov to negotiate, she thinks settlements should be expanded, and the blockade of Gaza maintained.

What I like though is the way MP seems able to combine on the one hand a vigorous explanation as to why Israel should not negotiate, and on the other a condemnation of Osborne for supposedly implying that Israel is preventing the negotiations.

Pot Head

Stephen Pollard Editor of the JC didn't agree with you, he Tweeted

"George Osborne has 500 new Jewish fans after superb speech at Board of Deputies dinner. They're purring in the aisles. Blair still to come."

I bet he was more in touch with the room than you.

Larry in Tel Aviv

This is news?

And the sun rose in the east today and will set in the west.

What about British "Jews" and their cowardice and self-loathing along with their cousins across the Atlantic who are even worse. Far worse it would appear. If Diaspora Jews are not going to take a strong united stand for Israel why expect nations such as the UK with long histories of deep and pervasive anti-Semitism to do so.

Raymond Douglas

All I can deduce from Osborne's speech, is that he is just positioning. No government is brave enough to say that this two state "solution" is no solution at all.So, we must go through this charade of our government postulating a solution it must know, cannot ever work. All because we refuse to stand with Israel and with truth itself. Of course, Osbourne might REALLY believe the guff he speaks. If he does, we REALLY are in trouble !

Adam B.

nice, it is currently Abbas who is refusing to negotiate. And you miss Melanie's point: given the circumstances she has outlined, namely, that Abbas is not interested in a two state solution, or accepting the existence of a Jewish state at all, what exactly is the purpose of negotiations?

Adam B.

It is indeed sad that Britain is a false friend to Israel. Cameron's comments about "prison camps" were disgusting. What would the reaction in Britain be if Israeli politicians started lecturing Britain about Iraq and Afghanistan? There would be an indignant outcry. Why does the government think that the Israelis are there simply to be hypocritically lectured to - and that they should like it?

The arrogance is unbelievable.

Daar

As a Zionist Israeli I would like to you to understand that Israel needs borders with the Palestinian entity. They don't want it and would do anything to stop it. Nobody thinks that they love us or that they can be trusted for long, but spreading your opinions that the Palestinian cannot be trusted because of this or that survey only helps them.
We know that there are security issues etc. but the longer this situation continues the smaller the chances for us to have the Israel we want.

EDDIE

Britain alone is responsible for the mess that is the Middle east today .when they carved up the Ottoman Empire after the first world war they seemed to have done it on the principle of “divide and rule”. The queen is on a state visit and an impoverished Government wants closer trade ties with these highly undemocratic countries and Israel is a wonderful potential sacrifice to these oil gods.
Helping them in their efforts are “uncomfortable” Jewish leaders and the Board of deputies which claims to represent British Jewry but seems to me to be a hand wringing cringing organisation that invites speakers who indulge themselves by criticising Israel because some wretched Jewish leaders do just that.

Jonathan Bush

Well said. Succinct and right on the money.

Johanna

Well said Mel, Britain needs to show some moral clarity and provide military and diplomatic assistance to Israel in its policies of transfer for the arabs from east jerusalem and the jordan valley.

Hoob

Arab Palestinians place is in Jordan, East to the Jordan river. Jordan is Palestine. Jewish Palestinians place is in Israel, West to the Jordan river. End of story.

tommy

you cannot be a friend of Israel and Iran.... sadly britain seems to have taken its decision....
The Hate Stuxnet campaign London launched Thursday carried three messages to Tehran:

1. We were not complicit in the malworm's invasion of your systems.

2. We share your view that Stuxnet is very dangerous and must be fought and are prepared to cooperate in a joint program to destroy it.

3. Britain will not line up behind the United States' position in the nuclear talks to be resumed on Dec. 5 between Iran and the Six Powers (the five Permanent UN Security Council members + Germany). It will take a different position.

debka.com/article/9169/

The nanny state is no more
Ninny state has arrived

Derek BLADES

"Mahmoud Aabbas has said repeatedly he will never recognise Israel as a Jewish state. It follows therefore that he remains intent on destroying it."

I am afraid the "therefore" link lives only in the writer's mind. Not wanting Israel as a Jewish state does not rule out not wanting Israel. The Palestinian leaders have in fact made it abundantly clear that they will gladly accept an Israel living within its 1967 borders, in a good neighbourly fashion, alongside a Palestinian state.

Osborne understands that and so, I expect, did most of his audience. It needs a wilful suspension of disbelief to think the opposite.

Grumpy angry Zionist

Reminder:

Deep down gotta remember that whatever, you Brits are first and foremost a bunch of royalists.
Wake up and read the headline news on JPost - Brit Foreign Office to take on 'goals of arab foreign policy' ie to move away from support for Israel.

Publish my earlier post or suck up to to the Brit hatred of Israel/Zionism

Wm. H.

" The British government holds that the settlements and the ‘occupation’ are illegal. This is totally untrue."

If what is meant is that they are legal, I don't understand how. This is a question of international law, is it not? Just as the supreme court is the final arbiter within, say, the US for the interpretation of US law, so the International Court of Justice, as I understand it, is the final arbiter for international law. The International Court of Justice has said unequivocally that the territory is occupied territory and the settlements are illegal settlements. How then can it be that it is "totally untrue" that they are illegal? Can Israel unilaterally determine the interpretation of international law? Or has Israel declined to recognise international law? Or does it pick and choose what it will recognise (it is, after all, for a state to determine what it signs up to). But I thought Israel had signed up to the laws of war. Am I wrong?

Also, Britain and Europe have a special relationship with Israel whereby they give it preferential treatment in trade. Israel has been welcomed into the OECD. Israel has joint military exercises with NATO. It is as good as being a member of the Western economic and military bloc.

So Britain and Europe have been making noises about the two-state settlement that has been the international consensus for decades - they never do anything to bring it about.

Britain is the loyal servant of the US. Israel is the Americans' special friend or adjunct. Britain is always going to be a staunch friend of Israel as long as the US is.

Why so shrill?

David Lindsay

Adam B., the Kahanist MK Michael Ben Ari has filed a formal complaint with the UN, calling for war crimes investigations of senior American politicians and “international arrest warrants for US government leaders”.

I happen to agree with him on this, if on nothing else; but you neocons have the friends that you deserve.

Trumpeldor

Europe is full of Jewish "kapots",ready to spit on their origin and their link to the micro land we cherish so much,just to grab the public recognition they covet so much but they will never obtain it !
If I forget thee Jerusalem....

phil

I wonder how many here either were there or read George,s speech ,to say other than he spoke as a friend of the Jewish people or of Israel is clutching at straws and making sensational statements .I have written here over many years as a JEW AND A STAUNCH SUPPORTER OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL ,and I WILL DO SO SO LONG AS I BREATH ,but for anyone to say that we cannot question the politics of that nation is the politics of the camp guards and does great disservice to the Jewish people .Anyone who saw the Ross Kemp tv series from Israel must be aware that the Arab militants do not hold exclusivity on vicious bigotry ,and those crazed settlers do not represent the vast majority of Jewish thought .
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The settlements and the militant settlers represent a problem that needs to be sorted out ,right or wrong those problems stand out in the eyes of the world and they have to be dealt with ,Anyone who has negotiated seriously in any capacity knows full well that one must not let the other side lose face nor
back them into a place where they are bound to fight .The settlement question is far too large to be agreed on this column ,but it is obvious to anyone with a brain that until it is at least at a sensible discussion level ,no progress towards peace will be made ,and I WANT THAT PEACE AS MUCH AS ANYONE HERE..To say we cannot discuss this without being labelled anti -Semitic or anti Israel is sheer madness and demeans the ethos of the Jewish people .
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George Osborne could not have made it more clear that he is a friend and that he would defend our people .We should be grateful for his sentiments particularly as we have many more enemies than friends .If he has an opinion on a crucial matter such as the settlements then debate with him and win your argument with sense not insults .I know many of you are passionate on this subject ,but what we all know as "sechal " need s to be applied .Carry on in this manner and the whole world will be our enemy.Melanie is a TRUE DEFENDER OF OUR PEOPLE ,brave and stoic and she has my full respect ,nevertheless she can be wrong like all of us and in this instance I believe she is .

phil

David Lindsay
November 25th, 2010 5:48pm So do you and as we have seen many times they are probably in a home for the mentally challenged .

david elder

Blades slashes again. If only Israel would go back to those (undefendable) 1967 borders, all will be well. The Israeli yielding of Gaza in 2005 was a substantial move in that direction. Tell us in your own words, Mr Blades - what happened next? Peace?

Derek BLADES

Something calling itself Angry Grumpy Zionist tell as that "Brits are first and foremost a bunch of royalists."

There is probably a slim majority of Britons who favour a continuation of a constituional monarchy after the depaparture of the present Mrs Windsor, but only on the condition that the succession skips a gneration.

He/she/it apparently thinks that this explains why the British Foreign Office supports republican governments in Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and Iraq.

A more appropriate nom de plume might be somethoing on the lines of Wonky Bird-Brain Zionist.

Yoni

"So why did the Board of Deputies invite him ?"

Because they are cowards and appeasers who won't speak up in defence of their people.

Yoni

"the International Court of Justice, as I understand it, is the final arbiter for international law"

ROFL. (a) International law is a complete fiction. (b) this ludicrously named body is ignorant in law and in fact. It is incapable of understanding that the Green Line was never an international border.
So are you.

Truthtriumphs

Blades.
If the Arab leaders have always said that they would gladly accept an Israel behind 1967 borders, what prevented them accepting it pre-1967?
You are thoroughly mendacious, because you well know that they have always said that all the land west of the Jordan is theirs, and that the establishment of a Palestinian state in the WB and Gaza is but the first stage in the "liberation" of Palestine.
It's why they teach geography to their children with maps erasing Israel.
It's why they teach them to hate the Jews, and that Israeli cities are occupied Arab ones, such as Haifa, Tel Aviv etc.
Your phoney posturing pretending that you want peace is utterly repugnant to any decent person.
The peace you want is by the surrender of the world's only Jewish state.

Truthtriumphs

Britain follows her interests, and likewise Israel should bite the bullet, and make it clear to the UK and US that she intends to do the same.

sleeping dolls

Phil: Nice to hear from you again. You are a brave man saying that here! For what it's worth, which is probably not much, you have my respect. I think you know how to build bridges, rather than burn them.

Adam B.

Blades that's fine, as long as Israel doesn't recognize "Palestine" as an Arab state, and lays claim to it as a Jewish state.

I'm sure you'd be fine with that.

JOHN ROOSEVELT

Derek Blades: "I am afraid the "therefore" link lives only in the writer's mind. Not wanting Israel as a Jewish state does not rule out not wanting Israel. The Palestinian leaders have in fact made it abundantly clear that they will gladly accept an Israel living within its 1967 borders, in a good neighbourly fashion, alongside a Palestinian state."

Stop the tired old lie, derek. You know perfectly well that you have missed out the little ditti re the right of return of all refugees from the '48 War and all their offspring - a mere 4- 6million, depending on whose estimates you read. You know well what this would mean, as do the Islamic loonies throughout the Middle east and their fellow travelers.

Your twaddle will never help the cause of peace...but what do you care?

phil

sleeping dolls
November 25th, 2010 11:18p Thank you I wish that some of myfriends here would think about what I said rather than waste their energies on mr blades ,who has never shown any interest in peace for both sides ,just crocodile tears .

Truthtriumphs

Pot Head.
How well that nom de plume suits you!
Stephen Pollard, the editor of the most guttermost of the gutter press, has only a secondary interest in the well-being of Israel.
His primary concern is to burnish his credentials as a liberal and reasonable chap, in order to pave the way, he hopes, to become editor of one of our leading newspapers.
Some hopes!

Gershon

@Derek BLADES November 25th, 2010 4:15pm

"The Palestinian leaders have in fact made it abundantly clear that they will gladly accept an Israel living within its 1967 borders, in a good neighbourly fashion, alongside a Palestinian state."

Mr. Blades, I believe that you are mistaken. The actions of the Palestinian leaders, indeed, of ALL the Arab leaders, show exactly the opposite. The two state solution could have been born immediately after the UN vote in 1947. The two state solution could have been implemented any time between 1948 - 1967. The two state solution could have been agreed upon in 2000. Time and time again, the Palestinians have proved by their actions that whatever solution they *are* interested in, it is certainly not the two state solution.

Derek BLADES

david elder tells us that Israel’s 1967 borders are "undefendable".

I suppose what used to be thought of as a defendable frontier was one marked by a river or a mountain chain. If elder has that in mind he may want to tell what a defendable border for Israel might look like. One coinciding with the Jordan River perhaps. Of course, in an age of guided missiles, drones and airborne troops the very notion of a “defendable” border is just silly. Not that that would bother elder

A more useful question is this. Who in their right minds would want a border that needs to be defended? European borders are all pretty much “undefendable” to elder’s antiquated way of thinking, but they are also “undefended”. The whole purpose of a peace treaty between the Israelis and the Palestinians would be to ensure that the borders are agreed and respected by both parties without the need for barbed wire, pill-boxes, watch-towers and other blots on the landscape. The Palestinians in particular would need this assurance given the known propensity of Israeli settlers to steal Arab land. But defending the border would not be an issue. From the Israeli perspective that would be a sizeable bit of the peace dividend.

Derek BLADES

Charlene wonders "if Canada is prosperous due to Mr Harper's stand on Israel which is a promise from the Abrahamic covenant that those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse cursed."

I am not familiar with the small print in the Abrahamic Covenant but I suppose it might bring luck to Mr Harper and even, perhaps, to his immediate family. But it surely too much to expect the blessing to extend to the entire nation of which Mr. Harper is currently leader.

Canada's prosperity can be put down to its liberal immigration policy, its European-style welfare state, open access to markets in the United States and, last but not least, abundant natural resources. Abraham has not much to do with it.

Truthtriumphs

Blades.
"The known propensity of the settlers to steal Arab land".
Funny that, when the Arabs invade other countries and steal land on a vast scale, it becomes Arab land, but when Jews reclaim what was stolen from them and from where they ethnically cleansed,as in the Etzion bloc, they become the thieves,in the minds of people like you.
For you, the pre-war cry of the anti-semite to Jews to"go back to Palestine" has become "get out of Palestine".

phil

Gershon
November 26th, 2010 3:41am --Gershon you are too polite to blades,.he prefers a good verbal thrashing and ensures he gets it by sending his garbage on a regular basis ,not caring that he is so disliked .If he does not get a response he sends something even more ludicrous and insulting ,so do not worry what you say .Let it rip it will keep both him and us happy ,or better still ignore him ,he only wishes to provoke you ,no intention of helping in any way .its what he does (as they say ).:)

phil

Charlene
November 25th, 2010 6:49am It is good to see impassioned supporters, but we all need to keep emotions in balance .The coalition is what we have and I believe they support all that is good in Israel,which most of it is ,but there are things that happen that may not be right too ,we are not infallible .It takes a very good friend to tell you that you may have done something wrong and I believe Britain is exactly that.
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We are at the stage now where so many hate us ,in most cases through media lies and Arab propaganda ,but that does not mean that we should not look at ourselves and ask whether some of it might have been caused by our own intransigence .The land that is being built on in Jerusalem is I believe land that was within the original Israeli borders ,but the world will not accept this and so the fight continues ,peace is not achieved ,now ask yourself would it be so awful if the building paused in order for the talks to take place ,rather than another round of horror for all.
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I have said it earlier but it is worth repeating, the only way to negotiate with anyone is to ensure they are not backed into a wall (no pun intended), and that they retain what is known as face , you might find it surprising how quickly enemies can become friends when they are shown respect together with a willingness to see the others point of view .An outstretched hand is always difficult to reject .shalom phil

Derek BLADES

phil writes "now ask yourself would it be so awful if the building paused in order for the talks to take place ,rather than another round of horror for all." Ignoring for once his mis-placed punctuation, nobody in his or her right mind could but agree with phil. The decision to resume full-scale settlement building, especially in Jerusalem, was deliberately made in order to put a stop to the peace talks. No wonder that Jewish people in the West find Israel an embarrassment under its present leadership.

What phil would like to see – an Israel living within agreed borders and at peace with its neighbours – will never happen unless the United States realises what is in Israels’ true interests. That is an agreed peace agreement with Palestine not more war-planes and weapons of large-scale destruction. If the United States were a true friend of Israel they would stop forthwith defence “cooperation” with Israel and move to isolate Israel diplomatically unless the Israeli government agrees to resume meaningful peace talks with the Palestinians.

Adam B.

Derek Blades now presumes to speak for "the Jewish people in the West" - apparently all of them. This man's ability to speak for others is a remarkable gift.

Blades - Jerusalem is not a "settlement". Jews have moved back there after the Jordanians and Palestinian Arabs ethnically cleansed it of all Jews in 1948, systematically dynamiting every ancient synagogue and desecrating the Mount of Olives in the process. They then denied Jews any access to their holiest site on earth for the next 19 years, until booted out in the 6 day war. (It is so important to Islam that not one Arab leader visited it during that 19 year Jordanian rule - not one).

It is Israel's capital, and has been the holy city of the Jews for over 2000 years. If you don't like it, tough.

charles soper

Exactly said, Melanie, maybe he hadn't thought things and repeated a mantra he knew most of his sheepish audience would swallow or maybe his real opinions were peeping under his dinner shirt - either is highly problematic.

Joe S

To all those who believe that "settlements" are an obstacle to peace you need to go to specsavers because you can't see what is right in front of your eyes. I'll spell it out clearly AGAIN. The Arabs do not want Israel to exist as the homeland of the Jews. Full stop. If you believe any negotiation will work you are all deluded.
The legality of the "occupation" and "settlements". You need to look up unbiased opinions and interpretation of the international law pertaining to this issue. Look up Jacques Gauthier and his twenty year study on who owns Jerusalem. Now forget the "law" and use common sense if you have any. Israel has fought four major defensive wars for her very survival against enemies who are bent on her destruction. I find it ludicrous to suggest that she should "return" to 1967 borders or any borders not of her own choosing because this would make a mockery of the Israeli loss of life, and would reward aggression. Why don't you?

Fritz Teich

Are the settlements legal?