A burning madness

AY

In the case of confrontation, Turkey will face joint force of Israel, Cyprus, and Greece - as minimum. Romania and/or Bulgaria are likely. Turksish military aren't idiots and won't allow Erdogan to lead country to war with 100% chance of defeat.
Turks aren't even able to respond to European measures against Islamization.
They will sit quietly, they aren't larges dogs on the block.

Jason in AZ

Even worse, Haaretz, the Israeli daily, is reporting that Israel is close to deal to compensate the families of the Turkish terrorists killed while attacking Israeli commandos during their attempt to break the Gaza embargo a few months back. Israel apparently will also apologize to Turkey for defending itself in the flotilla incident.

This is madness and may well mark the beginning of the end of the Jewish state if it continues on this self-destructive path.

tiki

Thank Gd. for WikiLeaks. It appears that 'whatever Israel has said/claimed in the past about 'everything (including ambulances smuggling arms, useless biased UN/UNWRA and other NGO's) happens to be the TRUTH, which the Left & Arabs of course don't like. They prefere to stay on cloud nine and bash Israel for every ill on the planet. But... in the end the TRUTH always prevails, incl. the 'bluff of Erdogan, the 'stolen Palestinian Homeland, the 'legitimate Rights of the Pals, Jerusalem is Arab not Jewish, Flotillas are peacefull, etc., etc., etc. The LEFT has gone awfully quit for the time being and are looking for ways how to stop and 'spin these FACTS around.

Ed L

Yet another consequence of the stupid peace of 1918 was the failure to hand back Constantinople to Greece. The French were responsible of course.

elixelx

Jason, personally I think the offer of compensation is brilliant!
First it is the Middle Eastern way, where compensation is often given for death or injury caused.
Second, look at the amount in question, and see what Israel gets in return--If Turkey accepts, Israel has taken away ONE punishment stick, ONE excuse for worsening relations all for $ONE measly Million.
But if Erdogan DOES NOT ACCEPT, that makes Turkey seem like an aggressor in search of a casus belli.
ONE more possibility: I wouldn't put it past the grasping Turks to accept and ask for MORE. How do you think THAT will make them look?
So for ONE million $$$, a declaration of responsibility, with NO admission of guilt--rather like a lethal car accident--the whole casus belli disappears. Muslim Compensation Law requires the removal of the case from the annals of history and the corridors of memory!
Will anything have changed? Will Turkey, or the Arabs, or the world hate Israel LESS? No, of course not; but then one excuse will have been removed to hate Israel MORE!
Nor is this Israel caving in to pressure. NOBODY expected or asked for this; it is Netanyahu's stakes-raising ploy, and now Erdogan's hand to lose!
One Million! It's peanuts!
The offer has been made, the pot sweetened; let's see who comes out favoured, whose bluff is called!

Dave L

This hits the key point. Western mainstream opinion just can't accept that a large proportion of the World, especially the Arab Middle East, Iran, Pakistan and many people in communities in the West whose origins are in those countries, view the World in a completely different way from the West. We live on different planets. This must become the key premise upon which Western policy is based.

wonderer

Ed L
December 10th, 2010 7:23am. Interesting, but then would Turkey have remained neutral in World War 2 and, if not, what would have been the effect?

Donald Mason

Melanie said, Question: who is the more cerebrally challenged – the Middle Eastern peoples who are brainwashed into believing in the US/Zionist all-powerful conspiracy, or the western intelligentsia who fail to find in this theory cause for serious disagreement, let alone profound alarm about the power and intentions of those in its demented grip?

Can you answer this Melanie? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYBsDwjezQI

Gordon Ross

Jason in AZ, the people who run Ha'aretz are a bunch of subversives and rumour-mongers.

Considering its past performance in dealing with its avowed enemies, does it really seem likely that Israel would act so foolishly!

Ed L

@wonderer

Who knows ? At least Smyrna wouldn't have been destroyed, and the Pontic greeks not murdered or expelled. Difficult to understand how the Turks got away with WWI so lightly. Of course the French were more interested in supplanting them (and the British) in the Middle East so they acted out of short-term self-interest, as they do. Or at least did when anyone cared.

Augustus

It is said that US Embassy dispatches portray Prime Minister Erdogan as a power-hungry Islamist, and that the leaked diplomatic cables reveal that US diplomats are sceptical
about Turkey's dependability as a partner. A picture is also painted of a totally corrupt regime within the AKP ruling elite, including Erdogan and his family. He is said to have
surrounded himself 'with an iron ring of sycophantic (but contemptuous) advisors'. So by all accounts he's not a dependable ally, either to America or the EU, and from Israel's viewpoint he could quite easily be expected at some point to harass Israel, either independently, or in collaboration with Iran.

Whatever else he does, Erdogan certainly doesn't appear to be a leader capable of changing the mindset amongst the Palestinians and the wider Arab and Islamic world which could allow for permanent peace.
A mindset entirely governed by a
mentality ever more confident in its claims of grievance and victimhood, and equally ever more confident in proclaiming the necessity of Israel's destuction 'at the hands of Islam'.

Derek BLADES

Melanie writes "Question: who is the more cerebrally challenged – the Middle Eastern peoples who are brainwashed into believing in the US/Zionist all-powerful conspiracy, or the western intelligentsia who fail to find in this theory cause for serious disagreement, let alone profound alarm about the power and intentions of those in its demented grip?"

Donald Mason asks "Can you answer this Melanie?" We could also ask if Melanie understands what the question is exactly. Here is my answer to the question she may or may not have had in mind.

1) There are no doubt some "Middle-Eastern peoples” who believe in US/Zionist conspiracies just as there is a distressingly large number of western European and American "peoples" who believe in conspiracy theories about global warming, measles vaccines, UFOs and whatnot.

2) I feel little alarm about either group, but I do not think that makes me demented. I get on quite well with conspiracy theorists from both eastern and western worlds as well as the other 99% of sensible folk. And neither the eastern nor western conspiracy buffs keep me awake at night.

AY

Derek BLADES

..that was unintelligible..

..coming news unfortunately aren't.

Car bomb attack in Stockholm, looks like, designed as trap.

http://vladtepesblog.com/?p=28163

So in the coming weeks, Swedes will discuss not only Christmas, shopping, and Nobel Price ceremonies.
They will also think more about injustice in the Middle East, and their own innate racism and negligence to sensitivites of innocent people.

..but no conspiracy Derek, no no.
As media likes to write, - "explosion kills 15 in Afghanistan". Explosion, eh? Or "bomb". Or "blast". Or even if there were someone who brought the bomb, they didn't mean to do injustice. And they also were rightfully offended. In any case, there was no harm to innocents. Just confirm it is so, Derek, all-knowing chap.

Derek BLADES

AY's reply to me demonstrates the brutish ignorance that is the essential manure for conspiracy theories to blossom.

He informs us that because of yesterday’s explosions in Stockholm "in the coming weeks, Swedes will discuss not only Christmas, shopping, and Nobel Price ceremonies. They will also think more about injustice in the Middle East, ….”

The Norwegian Parliament appoints the Norwegian Nobel Committee, which selects the laureate for the Peace Prize. The Peace Prize ceremonies take place in Oslo which is the capital of Norway. Stockholm is a different place altogether.

First reports from Stockholm spoke of a phone call to a Swedish newspaper prior to the explosion suggesting that the motive was revenge for Sweden's involvement in Afghanistan. If that is indeed the case, the explosions had nothing to do with the "Middle East" - a geographical entity that stops well short of Afghanistan.

AY

Derek - FYI Alfred Nobel was Swedish scientist, they are all in this together.

This is like, Yasser Arafat is Egyptian by birth, but at different stages he succeeded to devastate Jordan, Lebanon and Israel - for you to better understand Nobel analogy.

And how telling is the reaction - you are only negative on "Sweden's involvement in Afghanistan".

Sweden is a partner with NATO, which brings benefits of collective defense, and also obligations that Sweden fulfills.

One should only hope that in response to the act of terrorism Sweden sends another division to Afghanistan or to Somalia, where that individuals are most likely from.

And not a shade of guilt on "involvement". NATO fight there not only because soldiers like war romantics. It's practical. Army should feel the enemy, should know who the enemy is, know the taste of victory.

Because in today's Sweden, Oslo with Nobel Committee is far away, and Mogadisho with rusty knives and car bombs, is just around the corner.

So Derek no way your amateurish preachings could bring disruption between allies.
West is united against Islamic threat. Vipers of terrorism are squashed everywhere, and will be finished much faster than many can imagine.

Nick

Turkey offers Israel help in a time of crisis and is met with venom and spite. What a strange, sad world we live in.

AY

Nick - Turkey tries to play a local hegemon, to present things as if Turkey had Israel, Lebanon and so on, as pet animals in the garden of their Neue Osmanische paradise. Quite delusional picture, still.

Oh and nobody met their help with "venom and spite". Israeli PM telephoned Turkish and said thanks.

Ocker

I am reading an Associated Press article on the Swedish suicide bomber. An eyewitness says,

"I removed a Palestinian scarf from his face ..."

The Australian - 13/12/10 page 11

Marcus from the USA

AY obviously has never traveled to Greece or Eastern Europe.

Greeks are in general more anti-Jewish than Turks. Pretty much the same for Romanians and Bulgarians.

Turkey is the sleeping giant that Israel better make sure not to awaken.

Truthtriumphs

Nick.
Just watch this and enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRmgI_WXff0

AY

To the question of conspiracy again - let us look at google news/uk headlines, just now -

1)
"..UK rioters 'made contact' with duchess in fees protest.."

2)
"..Koran-burning pastor: why I want to come to Britain.."

Now please note - 'made contact' in quotation.
The Duchess, not very young lady, was hit by a stick, IN REAL.

The second title says "Koran-burning pastor" WITHOUT quotation, whereas in fact this pastor didn't burn any korans.

Isn't that an evidence of conspiracy and barbaric infiltration, at least in google? Certainly it is.

Will banning of that pastor be another evidence? (just take into account that Islamists who recently burned Poppies on Rememberance day just went unpunished) - certainly yes.

There IS conspiracy, it is in the Government and in the media, and it suffocates the country.

Raymond in DC

Nick writes, "Turkey offers Israel help in a time of crisis and is met with venom and spite." To the contrary, Israel made a point of thanking Turkey for its assistance.

But Turkey remains adamant that Israel offer an apology and pay compensation over the flotilla incident, while Israel rightly continues to refuse those demands. One thing (Turkey's assistance) has nothing to do with the other. And lest we forget, Israel has assisted Turkey numerous times in the past, including after two earthquakes.

AY

Marcus from the USA

Believe or not but recent exercises IAF conducts in mountain areas of Romania and Greece, in a terrain similar to Iran (and BTW Turkey). Such collaboration would require high level of confidence.

Historically, Bulgaria, Greece and Romania were hundreds of years under occupation by.. (no this time not by Zionists but) Osmans, - and the dread of janissaries is in their DNA. Natural allies of Israel against Turkish fascism.

A.

I do not recall, but was the criticism of Turkey so fierce here when it was ruled by the military, who were way more brutal in their treatment of Kurds, or is it only since the civilian government had the temerity to criticise Israel over its assault on Gaza and its blockade and since Israel killed some of its citizens on the high seas?

Truthtriumphs

A.
You are not up to date.
This Turkish government recently terrorised and pursued Kurds across its border with Iraq, which is contrary to all the laws of warfare.
Not to mention, of coure, its abominable human rights record against its own citizens-- one of the reasons why it has been refused admission to the EU.

Sorry you don't like the fact that Israel invokes her right to self-defence, but after 8 years of unprovoked aggression against her from the Gaza strip, Israel was totally within her rights--- in fact she should have acted sooner.
Again, the blockade was to prevent weapons of war entering Gaza, which were intended for use to kill Israel's citizens, and was entirely in accordance with international maritime law.

It's very disappointing, isn't it, that Jews have decided, after 2,000 years of persecution culminating in the Shoah, that they are no longer prepared to accept death meekly at the hands of their tormentors?
Get used to it.

Adam B.

A. at the very same time Israel was trying to stop rocket attacks against its civilians, and being attacked endlessly for it, Turkish warplanes were pounding northern Iraq killing hundreds, yet no-one even bothered reporting it. Currently, Syria is engaged in mass arrests and killings of Kurds, with Turkish military assistance (the Iranians recently got in on the action as well).

You're right, the criticism isn't fierce, because no-one even knows its happening - because most media don't bother reporting it (can't blame the West or the Jews, you see).

Adam B.

Marcus from the USA, your assertion that antisemitism is widespread in Bulgaria is ignorant drivel.

Greece and Israel have recently seen a warming of ties. Long may it continue.

Turkey is in the Islamist thrall now, and will never recover. Unfortunately.

A.

Adam B.

I see you cannot help yourself either twisting or simply misunderstanding what has been said.

A.

Moderator,
Why is it so difficult to get a reply to "Truthtriumphs" posted?

Truthtriumphs,
You have been careless: what I said was that the military were MORE brutal, not that the current regime is all sweetness and light.

You do not address what I said. Did Israel condemn its ally, the Turkish military, or, like the US and UK, did it wink at the murderous assault on the Kurds in the 1990s (when Lefties and other such undesirables were protesting vociferously)?

And while we are at it, how would you differentiate the Kurds' struggle for self-determination from the Palestinians'?

Harold

Are the trees burning out of control the ones the JNF planted on emptied Arab villages and land?

AY

Harold, - unfortunately Carmel's forests were natural not planted.. JNF in 50s and 60s planted lot of trees in empty mountains in central Israel. JNF workforce that time was Jewish refugees expelled from North Africa.
As to Arab villages, - you certainly can declare "Arab village" wherever you want, in the middle of Israeli forest, or in London Tower Hamlets, as appropriate. Nobody can obscure the magnificent view of Arab village shining in your eyes; have it and enjoy it habibi, it's yours.

Adam B.

Harold, how disgusting. Israel is reeling from a national disaster which killed 42 people, but you look to score a cheap point.

You repeat your lies about Israel's founding, whilst you ignore a greater number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands. Indeed, you stated that Arab pogroms against Jews in the Holy Land was "understandable". You still haven't apologised for it.

Adam B.

Because, A, Specifically "Palestinian" nationalism, invented in the 1960's, came about as a means to destroying Israel in stages. It is more about destroying a state than establishing a new one. Arafat admitted that this was about destroying Israel in stages. That is why there were no calls to establish a "Palestinian" state between 1948-67, when Jordan illegally occupied Judea, Samaria and the Old City of Jerusalem (ethnically cleansing it of all Jews in the process and destroying all the ancient synagogues) and Egypt illegally occupied Gaza.

The Kurds are an ancient people who have not sought to destroy another people - and indeed, have faced genocidal attacks against them - much as the Israelis are facing. That is why Kurds and Israelis feel a kinship.

Harold

AY,
The Carmel National Park on the southern slopes of Mount Carmel? Pine trees? Not established and planted by the JNF? I bow to your local knowledge, of course, but are you sure?

Adam B.
You are right. The immediate concern once the fire has been put out is how the authorities could be so negligent in the face of what must have been an obvious risk (climate, accidents, fire-raising) which has tragically claimed 42 lives.

I notice you continue to twist what is said, which you appear to think "constructive".

And where did you get the bizarre account of history of the Palestinian Arabs that underpins your comments to A.? The oppressed Kurds feel an affinity to colonial Israel?

Adam B.

Interesting Harold that you regard Israel as "colonial" - not just Judea and Samaria, but Israel itself, exposing your true agenda (the eradication of the Jewish state).

I have twisted nothing. You are simply embarrassed to see what you said in black and white. You said that the Arab pogroms against Jews in the holy land were "understandable".

Try to backpeddle your way out of it.

Adam B.

The Kurds and Israelis are quite close, and have been for some time. Of course, the Kurds don't shout it from the rooftops, as they have enough persecution against them (by Turkey, Syria and Iran. Not that the world gives a fig).

A.

Truthtriumphs,
Israel cannot claim it acted in self-defence, at least under the law it has subscribed to and claims to observe. Its own senior officials have confirmed that a ceasefire was in place and agreement to prolong it was on offer. The blockade's purpose has also been explained by senior Israeli officials. It is in large part to punish the population. It is illegal (and as a consequence so is the assault on shipping in international waters). One of these same senior officials has also explained the purpose of the withdrawal of Israeli forces to the perimeter and virtual imprisonment of the population: to stall what is laughingly called the "peace process" until Israel has taken all it wants.

All this is readily available from Israeli sources. It is odd that you persist in repeating what is simply propaganda or "hasbara".

Harold

Adam B.
Twisting, as ever, in your "constructive" way.

When you say the Kurds are close to Israel, I take it you refer to the support, financial and military, Israel is reported to have given to Kurdish insurgents in Saddam's Iraq, and in Iran. I assume Israel did not support the Kurds in Turkey when Israel's ally the Turkish military was killing them - do you know if they did?

Jill

Yes, I'm afraid I sort of fell into that trap, Melanie. Not so much thinking that Turkey would cease their jihad of Israel, but that here and there a humanitarian spark lurked and occasionally "leaked" through.

Ah well - the world is back to its perverted normal I guess.

Harold

AY
"As to Arab villages, - you certainly can declare "Arab village" wherever you want, in the middle of Israeli forest, or in London Tower Hamlets, as appropriate. Nobody can obscure the magnificent view of Arab village shining in your eyes; have it and enjoy it habibi, it's yours."

I'm not sure what to make of this - ignorance, denial,defiance?

Adam B.

A. Hamas declared that the ceasefire (or hudna, which is different) was over and rejected a renewal offer by Israel. In addition, the boarding of the Mavi Marmara was not illegal in any sense, and nor is the partial blockade (unlike Egypt's total blockade).

Harold, no. Expressions of solidarity with Israel have been expressed by the Kurdish media.

A.

Adam B.
December 16th, 2010 11:33pm
Hamas offered to extend the ceasefire, the terms of which Hamas had observed and Israel had not. Israel ignored the offer. This is confirmed by senior Israeli officials. Israel launched an incursion into Gaza. Hamas retaliated. Israel demanded a unilateral ceasefire by Hamas.

You continue to ignore the continued toll of civilian casualties of Israel's aggression and oppression.

If international law is the criterion, the blockade and assault on vessels in international waters is quite clearly illegal. Only Israel's creative re-definitions can make it "legal" - but then what is the law if everyone feels they can re-define it to suit themselves?

It would appear that your researches do not extend beyond Israeli propaganda.

Adam B.

A. utter nonsense. Hamas never implemented a ceasfire - the rockets continued throughout the "hudna" - whilst Israel only responded to specific rocket attacks. The aggression came from the antisemitic terror group Hamas. Israel offered to renew it - Hamas rejected it. Israel responded after eight long years of her citizens spending hours every day in shelters - and after several thousand rockets had been fired at her civilians.

The partial blockade is entirely legal - you will note that no-one has said it isn't. Even the EU does not contend that it is illegal. And you will note that intercepting the Mavi Marmara was within maritime law - again, no Western powers have contended it was illegal - no matter how may times you repeat it.

A.

Adam B.
December 17th, 2010 3:57pm
You appear to think you have better information than the Israeli security forces, whose head reported to the cabinet that Hamas had observed the ceasefire and made credible and increasingly effective efforts to discipline other groups. Israel did not honour the terms of the ceasefire. Similarly, Israeli security services knew that a continuation of the ceasefire was on offer prior to Israel's incursion and prior to its demand for a unilateral ceasefire from Hamas. In other words, Israel's belated call for a ceasefire from Hamasd was window dressing to justify its already prepared attack.

While the ceasefire was in operation, Israel killed at least 158 civilians. Rockets fired by rogue groups killed 7 Israeli civilians. In the three-year period after Israel's redeployment in 2005, Israel killed 1250 Gazans, including 222 children. Palestinian rockets killed 11 Israelis. It makes you wonder how Israel can have responded only when attacked. You also ignore the weekly log of incidents year upon year that makes your assertion untenable.

The EU and "Western powers" are Israel's close allies. They are not likely in public to hold Israel to interntaional law. Recall that EU prime ministers and presidents had a cosy dinner and subsequent press conference in Jerusalem as Israel's assault on Gaza continued. Regardless of their wholly unbiased opinion, Israel's assault on Gaza does not meet the criteria for a legal war of self-defence. The illegality of the blockade follows. It should be noted that Israel's treatment of shipping on the high seas is in breach of maritime law even on the assumption that its blockade is legal.

You appear to content yourself with Israeli propaganda. Try to bear in mind that no government is truthful. It is not the purpose of their public utterances to tell the truth.

Adam B.

A. you are wrong. Hamas ended the hudna (do you understand the meaning of that word? - it is not a ceasefire as you know it) - whilst Israel offered to renew the ceasefire.

This from Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLI75623220081218

"Hamas stopped short of threatening an immediate escalation against Israel, which had hoped to extend the truce and appears wary of a confrontation that could cause heavy casualties on both sides."

Also:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/3834450/Hamas-ends-ceasefire-with-Israel.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/30/world/middleeast/30hamas.html

What part don't you understand?

As for your legal case, based on no evidence, (and your laughable assertion that the EU is pro-Israel), it simply isn't credible - nor factual.

Adam B.

A. I do find it amazing that you are willing to believe an antisemitic terror group committed to the genocide of all Jews on this earth over a liberal democracy.

JOHN ROOSEVELT

A: Hamas will never accommodate an Israel in the Middle East - whatever its boarders. Hamas is the sworn enemy of Israel and is at war with israel.

You can expect nothing less than Israel doing whatever it takes to reduce the threat of Hamas.

It is a simple story and no pontificating re the who violated which ceasefire and when will change this fact.

A.

Adam B.
December 17th, 2010 11:51pm
You do know that the press organizations you quote rely on journalists stationed in Jerusalem and reliant on Israeli accreditation. You are in essence quoting journalists quoting the MFA.

The Israeli Intelligence and Information Centre reported in December 2008, "Hamas was careful to maintain the ceasefire. The lull was sporadically violated by rocket fire carried out by rogue terrorist organisations. At the same time, Hamas tried to enforce the terms of the arrangement on the other terrorist organisations and to prevent them from violating it."

Yuval Diskin, internal security chief, "Hamas was interested in renewing the relative calm with Israel." He also told the Israeli cabinet that Hamas would renew the ceasefire if Israel lifted its blockade, stopped military attacks, and extended the truce to the West Bank.

Shmuel Zakai, former IDF commander, "Hamas would have accepted a bargain in which it would halt the fire in exchange for easing of Israeli policies that have kept a choke hold on the economy of the Strip."

The Egyptians who brokered the ceasefire said that it provided for an immediate cessation of armed hostilities, a gradual lifting of the economic blockade that, after ten days, would allow for the passage of all products, except materials used in the manufacture of projectiles and explosives, and after three weeks, negotiation of a prisoner exchange and the opening of the Rafah crossing.

In other words in November and December, Hamas were seeking a continuation of the ceasefire on terms Israel had agreed to but reneged on.

In 2008, US policy makers were discussing a comprehensive settlement of Middle East conflicts (e.g. Walter Russell Mead "To make Israel safe, give Palestinians their due" in Foreign Affairs.) The risk to Israel was set out at the 2008 meeting of the Jewish People Policy Planning Institute, chaired by Dennis Ross - an aggressive effort by the US to resolve the Arab-Israeli conflict. With Hamas and Fatah and the Arab states and the Muslim states and the UN all subscribing to a two-state solution, the risks were clear.

Israel has been here before. As Shaul Misha and Avraham Sela write "By the late 1970s, the two-state solution had won the support of the Palestinians in the occupied territories as well as most of the Arab states and other members of the international community." The PLO was strictly adhering to its ceasefire. Saudi Arabia and the Arab League unveiled a two-state peace plan.

Read Avner Yaniv's analyisis of what happened next: Arafat was contemplating a historic compromise with the Zionist state; whereas all Israeli cabinets since 1967 opposed a Palestinian state. Israel attempted to sabotage a two-state settlement by eliminating the PLO as a potential negotiating partner, conducting military raids "deliberately out of all proportion" against "Palestinian and Lebanese civilians" to weaken PLO moderates. Israel had to choose between political moves towards a settlement or pre-emptive military action to head off what Yariv terms "Arafat's peace offensive". Israel opted to invade Lebanon.

Now, 2008. Tzipi Livni, "an extended truce harms Israeli strategic goals..." According to Uri Blau and Barak Ravid in Haaretz, quoting IDF sources, Israel had decided to attack Hamas long before and agreed to the June 2008 ceasefire simply to give the IDF time to finalise its preparations.

A careful study of the years 2000-08 shows that Israel kills first after pauses in hostilities (Nancy Kanwisher, Johannes Hausofer, and Anat Biletzki in the Huffington Post) – as, for example, in late 2005 and again after the election of Hamas in 2006.

On November 4th, Israel killed Palestinians militia in air strikes and other attacks on the pretext of pre-empting a Palestinian attack. Hamas responded with rocket attacks "in retaliation" according to the Israeli Intelligence and Terrorism Information Centre. Israel then tightened the economic blockade and demanded a unilateral and unconditional ceasefire from Hamas. (See Zvi Bar'el "Crushing the Tahadiyeh" in Haaretz Nov 2008 and Uri Avnery "The calculations behind Israel's slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza".)

If Hamas had not responded to the attacks on November 4th, Israeli tactics in 1981-2 suggest that Israel would have continued with ever greater provocations until it became politically impossible for Hamas to turn the other cheek, however disastrous the consequences (in the 12 months to June 1982 the PLO had maintained a ceasefire under increasing Israeli provocation, the last of which killed 200 civilians including 60 occupants of a children's school).

Instead of relying on secondhand propaganda, do some research. Contrary to your trite innuendo, this is not about believing Hamas, but about reading the work of Israeli journalists. Even in Israel the press is being stifled, but there remain enough who still attempt to fulfil the role of the fourth estate (which is not to spout state propaganda).

On the right of self-defence, read the relevant articles in the relevant treaties.

On the EU, don't be silly. It has been pointed out on another thread that the EU has in place preferential trade agreements with Israel. They have welcomed Israel into the OECD despite its illegal annexation of the West Bank. Its members coordinate their national and Nato military plans and exercises with Israel. Diplomatic timidity keeps the EU from straying too far from the US, even if it wanted to.

Wm. H.

Adam B.
December 16th, 2010 11:33pm
Kurds express "solidarity" with Israel, who supplied them the wherewithal in Iran and Iraq to do what nearer home Israel would call terrorism. Now there's a thing.

And Turkish Kurds do not now spurn Israel's sudden interest in their plight, overlooking the decades of rather worse than indifference. Now there's a thing.