This is Zionism

jzsnake

Like the truth really matters to the viscous anti-Semites.

James Murphy

Beautiful. - And powerful because beautiful.

Lucashyde

Excellent

Mr. Mabutoh Afunfa

After reading this i feel like converting to Judaism.
May God bless Israeli people and Jewish people.
Amen.

Trully, a wonderful, caring decent Nation........Israel you give a tremendous amount of compassion, understanding and help albeit in the face of great adversity.

gary ashton

wonderful. yes this is the israel that i know and have experienced.

cyllan

THIS SHOULD BE ON THE MEDIA, TV ADVERTS AND EVERYWHERE.CONSTANTLY

where is the public relations machine from the jewsish council

Jerry

Beautiful, well-done. However, it is a commentary on how words are insufficient to impress humans in the face of visual images. I believe moving pictures have a real future.

Gilbert Belwether

Melanie, do any of these stories of Jewish-Arab cooperation shake your belief that the Arabs are genocidal fanatics intent on destroying Israel? Can this kind of peaceful coexistence be promoted, and if so how?

AY

Zionism started as religious nationalist movement (Tora, people, land of Israel), but since won sympathies among secular population.

It was not only compatible but influential in the mainstream humanist ideal: to live peacefully, have safe home, to be what you want to be, and improve wider world by creativity and compassion.

Did I mention self-defense?
This is where idealism meets reality - in order to be good, you first should stay alive. Knowing one or two relevant techniques was, and remains, a necessity.

Okey

The overt, as well as the covert, disingenuous, antisemites
(all right, Jew-haters) writhe with jealousy at Israel's achievements.
Some of them cannot tolerate the spectacle of a nation succeeding, that was, by supposed divine decree, destined for eternal damnation;
others, cannot tolerate it because of Marxist and New Leftist theological dogma that asserts that "the Jews must rid themselves of their Jewishness"...or else...

Jonny Pijl

Gilbert,

Though it is heart warming and promising to see Jewish/Arab cooperation. They are predominantly initiated by Jews.
Not even 1 Arab country is tolerant of Jews/Israelis and none of them is initiating mutual Jewish-Arab projects. Egypt, having peace for 30 years with Israel refused to warm the peace to other domains such as Economical or Academia to the point were today 98% (according to recent poll) see Israel as the enemy.

When Arabs will start initiating such projects, Than and only than your argument will make sense.

Gregory

When I see something like this, as a non-Jewish supporter of Israel I want to proclaim proudly on this Independence Day(and in the face of all those demented useful idiots and dupes who scream, "We are all Hamas now!")and in the name of all of us who love Israel, "We are all Zionists now!"

Simeon

So true !! finally the truth about Zionism ... that its a wonderful movement !! not a facist oppresive one which is what ignorant plebs try to convey.

GaryO

Brilliant, this is exactly the kind of positive image of Israel (and Zionism) that need to be spread far and wide. Everything you see on these posters is real, not made-up like in Paliwood/Hamas/Guardian propaganda against Israel.

Alex Bensky

But Melanie, you should be fair. Let's see some posters of the similar work Arabs do around the world and there should be some mention of how Arab countries with copious amounts of money fund similar programs. Well, if you can find any...

Tony

Congratulations to Israel and the Jewish people on the 63rd anniversary of independance and continued survival in the face of extreme adversity. I despair and am ashamed of the continued disparaging of Israel and the antisemitic approach exibited in sections of the british establishment. Best wishes for the future.
Shalom

Nolan Walker

A relative of mine went to visit the St. John's Ambulance eye hospital in Jerusalem. Whilst he was there a young Arabic boy was shot with a rubber bullet by Israeli troops. The hospital staff could not save his eye so they attempted to transfer him to a Jewish hospital but they refused to accept him. Furthermore the out-reach van that treated the Arabs in the West bank was routinely stopped, searched and withheld for hours by Israeli forces, almost on a daily basis. That, I am afraid, is also Zionism.

London Calling

'This is the prism' of Humanity at its very best...crossing over ethnic and religious divide.

'This is Zionism' is quite a bold statement to make and an unnecessary one in my view in which to highlight a positive view of Jewish individuals and groups who like all humanitarians deserve recognition for their good works. I feel uncomfortable with the need to use words that in themselves unwittingly separate themselves from the underlying cause.

Just by using the words 'This is Zionism' could just as easily be perceived as propaganda by many and consequently not reach the wider audience so desired by yourself and others.

A positive view would be better documented by pro gramme makers
and through education, rather than the negative view of Israel portrayed through the media. There is a huge gap between the good work that is done outside the political framework that doesn't reach the wider audience and that needs to be addressed. This article is a good example of that need, without Zionism ever needing to be mentioned ...:)

Rick

Consult "Remember these children" on Israel's benevolent healthcare.

Consult any indices of health and welfare among Jewish Israelis and Arab Israelis on the joyful coexistence of first-class and second-class citizens in Israel. Second-class citizens have full civil rights, but there should not be too many of them.

This is Zionism.

(Or, moderator, is one not allowed to point this out?)

Simeon

In this situation Zionism only need not be mentioned if Zionism is a bad thing...By definition the term "Zionism" has been hijacked by lefties and islamists and completeley twisted. It is totally correct for Melanie to redeem the term Zionism and restore it to its proper place and meaning, as by distorting the term has resulted in the persecution on many innocent zionists

Simeon

Not to come accross as unsympathetic to this poor boy, not at all, but if this is true that a soildier deliberately shot a boy in the eye, this is indefensibe. But id like to know was he shot deliberately? How old was this boy? was this boy armed? was he alone? because i doubt highly that if this boy were in the west bank A) he was alone..B) he was not being highly antagonistic toward the Israeli soldier C) where were these "troops" positioned and what was the visibility like at the time of the incident. Most likely he was used as a shield and this was far far from intentional.....

Freedomlover

Improving the international climate regarding Israel requires that the world knows what PA/PLO/Fatah/Abbas/Fayyad say to their own people vs what they tell the US/West using their own words. I know from my own personal interactions that quoting Team PA/Abbas verbatim is THE key to getting people to understand the reason for the decades’ long conflict – Palestinian ideology. I do not even editorialize. What PA/PLO/Fatah/Abbas/Fayyad say to their own speaks for itself! See Palestinian mMdia Watch for all the In-their-own-words" research you will need. wwwlpalwatch.org

Team Abbas teaches and preaches an ideology only Hamas/Hezbolleh/al Qaeda could love. Generation after generation of Palestinians have been brought up with Israel defamed and delegitimized and Jews blood libeled. Relentlessly exposing Team PA/Abbas’ political/media rhetoric and curriculum , demanding change, is the way to COUNTER delegitimzation.

Team Abbas’ “work” can be broken down to: 1)encouragement and justification for murdering Jews; 2) terror worship and adulation of terrorists; 3)promise of endless war, not peace, with Israel 4)delegitimization of Israel by lying about the regions’ history and any and all Jewish connection to ANY part of Israel – even Tel Aviv is taught to be rightly “Palestinian”!

Up to now, the Israeli government has been hoping that if it holds Abbas up as a “peace partner” he will actually become one. Instead this policy position has legitimized Team PA/Abbas to the point where it, a defamer of Jews, a delegitimizer of Israel and an inciter of hate and violence, is welcomed in foreign ministries around the world while Israel is seen as the villain in the conflict. Palestinian Authority unity with Hamas demonstrates clearly that ideologically they are one.

Palestinian ideology must be exposed in its own words so that Israel is respected as is should be, and for the world to be motivated to demand that the Palestinians replace its genocidal, supremacist ideology for one that embraces ecumenism such as respect for all religions, respect for the real, not faux, history of the region and the concept that living in peace with ones Jewish neighbors is honorable. This will never come about unless we relentlessly expose the ideology behind Palestinian rejectionism as manifested in its political/media rhetoric and curriculum – as consistent with the ideology manifested in the founding documents of both Palestinian factions.

Palestinian Media Watch research provides all the research one needs. www.palwatch.org These are not “exceptions to the rule”. They ARE the rule.

I fervently hope that all serving in Israeli government, both in Israel and abroad, will make it his/her duty to share PMW-type research with foreign ministries all over the world, with every foreign embassy in Israel, with religious and communal leaders, educators, academics, politicians and journalists in Israel and around the world. All of us concerned with the West remaining free should be doing the same.

SG1974

Highly selective, convenient propaganda. What does this change, precisely? I could show you a picture of Jews living peacefully in Tehran alongside Muslims.....

Incidentally, if this is supposedly proof that Zionism is only good, does it also mean Islam and the Palestinians are too? Or is there one rule for - oh wait, I know the answer to my own question.

Okey

SG1974, to which of the two groups which I cited in my earlier post do you belong?
Or do you belong to a third group, viz., the one that derives its sentiments (regarding the Jews ) from "cultural transmission"?

MD

Nolan Walker, that ambulance to which your post refers, that was delayed at an Israeli checkpoint, was it also carrying explosives and/or armed Arabs, as "Palestinian" Arab (and other Arab)ambulances often do?
I live in a prosperous enlightened Weatern country that is at peace with all of its neighbours, and here,too, patients in ambulances are sometimes turned away from hospitals because of unavoidable objective circumstances, and have to be taken to alternative hospitals.

Forest Fan

SG1974...I believe the whole point of this poster campaign is try to illustrate to some people that ‘Zionism’ doesn’t equate to evil....which sadly many impressionable kids in the West believe either because they are too lazy to find out more about the true history of Israel or because it is now trendy to be anti-Zionist....being bombarded day in, day out (Teachers, lecturers, media, pop stars, government) -without discussion-by people spitting drek from the other side of the debate.
Even though I passionately believe in Zionism, I personally believe this campaign smacks of desperation and will not change the mind of one anti-Zionist.
I honestly believe that Israel is losing the PR battle at this present moment in time and find it very worrying.
Stand with Us is great but more needs to be done.
These posters only preach to the converted.

Elder of Ziyon

SG1974:

As the creator of the posters, I agree - they are highly selective.

But compared to the highly selective, often untrue, anti-Israel propaganda that is out there, it is a drop in the ocean.

Do you have a problem with the other kind? Or is there one rule for... oh wait, I know the answer to my own question :)

Truthtriumphs

Nolan Walker
May 10th, 2011 2:06pm

"Furthermore the out-reach van that treated the Arabs in the West bank was routinely stopped, searched and withheld for hours by Israeli forces, almost on a daily basis. That, I am afraid, is also Zionism".

Probably because Arab ambulances have been used to carry and smuggle munitions as well as terrorists.
Reminds me of the case of a Palestinian girl who was scalded in her home with cooking oil.
She made many visits to the Beer Sheba hospital, where she was treated free of charge until her burns healed.
On her final visit she carried a suicide vest, with the aim of detonating it to kill as many children in the hospital as possible. Fortunately, she was apprehended just in time.
The Israelis have every right to be wary.

Nevertheless, Israel's hospitals are full of Arab patients, receiving the best care possible, and without charge....why don't you go and see for yourself?
Even terrorists from Gaza have been evacuated and treated in the same hospital wards as soldiers.
Do some research before you damn a country on matters about which you know very little.

john bruce

Simeon,

I think the important thing is that a boy was shot in the eye and needed help. And was turned away from a hospital.

That's all the facts we know.

Suddenly you have decided he was probably not alone, he was probably armed and probably being used as a human shield, whilst probably being antagonistic towards Israeli soldiers in probably poor visibility.

Can you see how a certain mind set is at work here?

All you know is a boy was injured. You immediately claim poor visibility might have been to blame so it's not the IDFs fault, but he was probably a terrorist or a human shield held by terrorists, so it was justified.

And you, like me know absolutely nothing about how this boy was injured!

It was his fault but if not it was not the IDFs fault, due to poor visibility? Without knowing any facts?

And this is the constant Israeli response to any such incidents isn't it?

Freedomlover

Bulletin From Palestinian Media Watch www.palwatch.org. THE web site Cameron does NOT, NOT, NOT want us to see/hear/read becasue it shows his anti-Israel policy to be utterly Chamberlainesque. His favorite, the oh so "moderate PA PM salen Fayyad, double talking (in Islam it is called taqquia) about terrorism. One day Fayyad pretending to condemn, another day praising female terrorists

March 27, 2011
Fayyad's duplicity about support for terror on day of Jerusalem bombing

http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=4843

Wednesday after Jerusalem bombing when world was listening:

Fayyad: "I condemn this terror operation"

Wednesday before Jerusalem bombing on Palestinian radio:

Fayyad: "Honor and admiration" to women terrorists

by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

On Wednesday afternoon, Palestinian Authority Prime Minster Salam Fayyad condemned as "terror" the bomb at a Jerusalem bus stop that killed one woman.

On Wednesday morning, Fayyad honored Palestinian women terrorists, including two who drove suicide bombers to terror attacks killing five. He also honored a terrorist who placed a bomb in a bus station, an action identical to the one he condemned just a few hours later.

Fayyad condemned Jerusalem bombing Wednesday afternoon:

"I condemn this terror operation in the harshest terms,
no matter who stands behind it."

Fayyad praised Palestinian terrorists Wednesday morning:

"I will not fail to mention with honor and admiration the resolve of the female prisoners, the fighters, and of all the prisoners of freedom who are imprisoned in the Israeli prisons, experiencing indescribable suffering. This requires that all of us intensify the effort to ensure their liberation from the occupation's chains and from the abuse of its [Israel's] executioners."

Okey

Nolan Walker, an acquaintance of mine owns a jewellery shop in London.
One day an Englishman came into the shop and enquired about the price of a certain piece. Upon being told, he exclaimed, "No wonder the Germans wanted to get rid of you."
Is this a manifestation of "Englishism?

Okey

Nolan Walker, we have only your word that the incident occurred, but even if it did, it was certainly NOT a typical manifestation of Zionism; if it occurred, it was an ABERRATION from Zionism. In the Arab world, however, a parallel incident could not have occurred because the Arabs ethnically cleansed "their" Jews decades ago. In any case, do you imagine that it would be the norm in Arab society to extend any humanitarian treatment to "the offspring of pigs and monkeys," the favoured description of Jews in the "Palestinian" media?
You anti-Zionists expect absolute virtue from every single Zionist (measured by your yardsticks), but forgive and "understand" Arab homicide bombers who murder Jews in pizza parlours, hotels and shopping malls. An example is Tony Blair's wife, who reacted to the mass murder of Israelis by "Palestinians" by "understanding" how that "poor young man" must have been driven to his desperate act by the 'hardships' which he had experienced. Yeah, right, just like 'the poor" young middle class, well educated Arab men who murdered 3,000 Americans on 9/11.
Know this, however, the era of exclusively Jewish holocausts is over. If Israel goes down, others will, too.

Truthtriumphs

john bruce

"And you, like me know absolutely nothing about how this boy was injured!
It was his fault but if not it was not the IDFs fault, due to poor visibility? Without knowing any facts?
And this is the constant Israeli response to any such incidents isn't it?"

Wrong way round!
The typical response to Israel's detractors is to condemn her without bothering to check any facts...in fact, they salivate with expectation at the chance to damn her.
Just so happens that in every case that Israel is condemned for some incident or other, the facts, when investigated, prove that the reality is always at odds with the perception, like the Al Dura fake "killing" of the boy, whose supposed death sparked off the 2nd. intifada, killing more than 1,000 innocent Israelis.

Personally, I think that Israel is far too indulgent of those who set out to kill her citizens, or defame her.

A final note about Israel's treatment of Arabs in her hospitals...I've heard it said many times, and seen it, that as far as treatment is concerned, politics stops at the hospital doors.
That is the universal and respected code of ethics there.

Okey

Nolan Walker: the following incident illustrates the predominant "culture" in the Arab world with regard to Jews (and also Christians and other non-Muslims.)
Some years ago two Israeli army reserve soldiers strayed into a town in Samaria (part of "the West bank" to you.)
They were captured by "Palestinians", slaughtered like sheep on the upper storey of a building. Then the "Palestinians"literally bathed their hands in the blood of the Jews, and, to the cheers of their compatriots below, triumphantly displayed their blood-covered hands.
Then they threw the corpses to the ground.
These are the values and the culture that predominate in the Arab and Islamic world.
You presumably live in the West, so you have not yet personally experienced this on your own skin.

Okey

Nolan Walker, the epilogue to the 'Palestinian' blood-lust incident which I related in my previous post was that an Italian journalist who happened to be at the scene, reported the atrocity. Thereupon the "Palestinians" had a word in his ear. Result? The Italian journalist profusely apologised for reporting the facts and vowed not to do anything to "harm the 'Palestinian' cause."
There you have yet another facet of the predominant Arab/Islamic culture as well as the predominant Western reaction to it.
It is an affront to civilisation bordering on the ones that were perpetrated in Europe in the 1930's and 40's that Western intelligentsia defend this culture or turn a blind eye to it, while ceaselessly defaming one of the noblest causes in human history, namely, Zionism.

Andy Gill

I love it. Send a copy to Alan Rusbridger at the Guardian.

Forest Fan

Okey...this is a link to the brutal picture you describe...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/969778.stm

Celato

Elder of Ziyon:

I strongly suggest you look at the texts of Zionist contributors to this blog and ask yourself this question: "Does the image they transmit of Zionists square with the one appearing in my posters - or do their utterances contradict and undermine my work at every turn?"

I fear you're fighting an uphill battle on the "positive image" front, and the main obstacle you face is not from crude anti-Semitic propaganda, but from aggressively vociferous "hasbara" amateurs in your own camp.

Truthtriumphs

Celato
May 11th, 2011 5:40pm
Elder of Ziyon:

"I fear you're fighting an uphill battle on the "positive image" front, and the main obstacle you face is not from crude anti-Semitic propaganda, but from aggressively vociferous "hasbara" amateurs in your own camp".

Sour grapes from someone who cannot win the argument, and knows it.

Adam B.

Celato, you are right - the antisemitism is not crude, but sophisticated and continuoulsy morphing. It uses new words like "Zionists" instead of "Jews", and presses the buttons which are valued of the particular era in which it finds itself.

The image problem comes from a steady diet of lies and hatred.

Margaret Muller Johanson

Helping is all about Jewish law and tradition it is in the Torah and Telmud to help and to help the poor, the widows and Orphans, this people will always help not harm, you will see doctors from this part of the world going to other parts of the world to cure the sick and not to commit jihad like those doctors in Glasgow airport few years ago, shame!.

Freedomlover

See web site, Palestinian Media Watch, www.palwatch.org, to read/see/hear/learn that the so-called "moderate" Palestinians are just as genocidal in their aims as the "militants". From Palestinian Media Watch, so called "moderate" Palestinian Authroity President Abbas endorsing terror - in his own words.

Until Team PA/Abbas' hate education and political/media rhetoric of incitement to violence are placed with the ideology of ecumenism, there will be no peace and Israel MUST keep all security measures in place.

Bulletin March 27, 2011

Abbas's duplicity about his support for honoring terrorist Dalal Mughrabi

To the PA: "Of course we want to name a square after her"

To Israelis: "There's no doubt, I'm against it"

http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=4842
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

In an interview with Israeli TV Channel 2 last week, Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas condemned the Palestinians' naming of a square after Dalal Mughrabi, the terrorist who led the most lethal terror attack in Israel's history:

"There's no doubt, I'm against it.
I condemn this action [of naming a square after Mughrabi]," Abbas, said.

However, when speaking to Palestinians in 2010, Abbas said he supported it.

"Of course we want to name a square after her... We carried out a military action; can I then later renounce all that we have done?"

[Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Jan. 17, 2010]

Palestinian Media Watch reported on this in detail in 2010. (See full timeline of the Dalal Mughrabi square controversy.)

In addition, Abbas has personally glorified terrorist Mughrabi, whose bus hijacking in 1978 killed 37 civilians. Abbas funded a computer center named after Mughrabi:

"Yesterday the Hebron Building Committee inaugurated a computer center named after the Shahida (Martyr) Dalal Mughrabi. Present at the event were President Mahmoud Abbas's advisor for communications and information technology... The center was funded by a contribution from the President's Office."

[Al-Ayyam, May 5, 2009]

Celato

Adam B:

The effectiveness of propaganda depends very much on the audience to which it's directed. It can be as crude as you like if you're preaching to fanatically committed supporters and simply want to keep them on the boil. But this approach (as you imply) is worse than useless if your aim is to persuade opponents or "don't knows" to come on board. And it's also counter-productive when addressed to "intelligent" supporters engaging in rational debate.

You and I can see - with equal clarity - the lies and emotional manipulation underlying hideous pictures of Jews or texts containing "blood libels"; so there's really no need for either of us to waste our breath exposing or promoting them. We KNOW how easy it is to prove their propagandist falsity...

Why, then, are these blogs so heavily dominated by (a) furious admonitions to "just go see" what outrageous things Arab/Muslim extremists are addressing to fully-converted followers on internet sites, and (b) a style of rhetoric which resoundingly echoes those very same sites?

Subtlety simply isn't the name of the Zionist game here. At every turn we see Arabs being painted as "savages", "barbarians", "speaking with forked tongues", "morally degraded", "psychopaths", "brainwashed", belonging to a "death cult", "willing to "sacrifice their own children", "hate-fuelled", "washing their hands in Jewish blood" and "celebrating the deaths of Jewish babies".

Excellent stuff, no doubt, if you're rallying people to man the barricades - but about as effective at changing hearts and minds about Israel as ... well ... listening to the same sort of thing from Islamist rabble-rousers.

Not only does the rhetoric offend on a rational level, it also provides plenty of useful ammo for anti-Israel propagandists. "From the horse's mouth", they can say, "you will see how those Zionists hate and defame Palestinians!" (Then out comes a selective - but perfectly accurate - catalogue of quotations...)

The central message of Elder of Ziyon's posters is that Zionists DON'T hate Palestinians - that the "true" face of Zionism is compassionate, affords Arabs full and due respect, and is happy to accommodate them. Successfully juxtaposing this image against rabidly anti-Israel propagandist constructions isn't half as much of a battle as squaring it with expressions of hatred and distrust emanating from fellow-Zionists.

Ironic as it may seem (and I doubt you'll accept this, but think about it just the same): The one thing Elder of Ziyon CAN point to as an antidote to the negative noises coming from these blogs is that a good many Jews are prepared to challenge Zionist extremism and do so with freedom - albeit being verbally bashed - right in this forum.

Adman

Someone's got to stick a negative word in here.

Seems to me that the ads support the idea of Jewish supremacy - which will rub a lot of people up the wrong way! Vraiment!

However, the message is right, but as usual, it's the tone that's just as important.

Okey

Celato, just consider the actions of "Palestinian" Arabs not just against Jews, but against one another; just consider the actions of Arabs against fellow Arabs in other parts of the Middle East.
You will see that there is no need really for Zionists to issue condemnations. The Arab actions speak for themselves: a Syrian man arranges for a bomb to be loaded onto an airliner on which he despatches his pregnant Irish girlfriend, too.
A"Palestinian" mother places an explosive under her baby in a pram and approaches an Israeli checkpoint.
These kinds of behaviours add up to a pattern.
Not a week goes by without a wholesale slaughter of Moslems by other Moslems in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Kaddafi and Assad slaughter their own people daily.
Are these just coincidences or figments of the Zionist imagination?
Do you deny that "cultural differences" manifestly exist within the human species?

Okey

John Bruce, Israeli forces have been known to kill fellow Israeli soldiers in accidental "friendly fire" incidents; hence why is it so incredible that occasionally Arabs are killed or injured unintentionally by these forces?
Israel has never had a policy of deliberate targeting of civilians. Murderous combatant commanders like Yassin, Rantissi, Mughnyieh et al, yes; but not innocent civilians.
The Arab side, however, has always espoused the official policy of targeting Israeli and other Jewish non-combatants indiscriminately, not just in the Middle East, but also overseas-e.g., the blowing up of the Jewish community centre building in Buenos Airies by Hizballah. The Arab aggressors and their leftist Western collaborators call this "armed resistance." When an Arab explodes an explosive charge in an Israeli hotel where Jews are sitting down at a Passover service, leftists call this "armed resistance."
When an Arab enters a Talmudic college in Jerusalem and shoots the students, leftists call this "armed resistance;" when an Arab mows down Jews in a Jerusalem street, using a bulldozer belonging to his Israeli employer, leftists call this "armed resistance."
When Arabs fire tens of thousands of rockets into Israeli towns and cities, leftists call this "armed resistance."
The truth is that the Arab world and its leftist collaborators believe that the Arab side is justified in using any means in its struggle against Israel, but Zionists are forbidden to defend themselves.

Lorenzo

Hate is immutible to change. Jew haters will never admit the value of a Jew. You're just wasting your time with these cretins.

Freedomlover

The biggest lie told by the Palestinians, the Islamic world and their left wing allies is "Israelis are committing genocide against the Palestinians". This is the biggest of the "Big Lies" circling the globe today and an out and out blood libel.

Palestinian population has increased apx 250% (commonly referred to as a "population explosion) since 1967, from apx. 1 million to apx 2.5 million. (Thanks to the miracle of modern Israeli medicine the Israelis brought to the West Bank with them in 1967.) See link to demographic study below, and please note that Palestinian leadership likes to tell the UN its population is even bigger so it can collect a higher level of financial support. In most of the world this is referred to as "theft".

PM Cameron should consider if he really wants to pander to the Palestinian blood libelers who tell the world one thing, but tell the UN something completely different for the sake of ripping it off. In Islam this kind of Palestinian lying is referred to as "taqquia", Islamically approved duplicity when dealing with the "infidel" (anyone who is not Muslim).

If Palestinian leadership can tell a blood libel one minute and a lie the next, PM Cameron would be wise to reconsider his blind support for the Palestinians and his anti-Israel position - essentially telling the Israelis they need to put themselves in a position where they can no longer defend themselves against people coommitted to murdering every Jew on the planet. (Article 7 of Hamas charter says Jews must be killed where they are found and "moderate" PA has run "kill Jews" sermons on its state run TV, check Palestinian Media Watch web site for details.

The Palestinians are playing Cameron for a fool, as Hilter played Chamberlain. THIS is a good time to question the credibility of EVERYTHING the Palestinians tell him with the view to saving his own reputation when the history of THIS era is written.

The demographic study:

By Roberta Seid, Ben Zimmerman and Mike Wise's on the population
in the West Bank and Gaza.

It is on line at http://www.biu.ac.il/Besa/MSPS65.pdf

The Arab population in the West Bank and Gaza grew from 942,000 in 1967 to
2,466,000 in 2003. We found that the PA had inflated their population
numbers, so that instead of the 3.8 million they claimed were in the WB and
Gaza in 2003, it was really 2, 466,000.

Either way, there was substantial growth, with the population growing over
250% in that time period according to our data. The PA data would suggest
even higher growth--almost 4 times the original population.

Adam B.

Cleato, what a long winded way of saying very little.

Elder of Ziyon is making this point: Israel is routinely painted as being nasty, "apartheid", genocidal, supremacist, racist, illegal occupiers, aggressors and generally a very bad lot. This is achieved either by outright antisemitism or bigotry, or through subtler means, which are nonetheless relentless and obsessive. No positive word can ever be uttered. Only continuous vilification and delegitimization can be permitted.

In order to counter these lies and defamations, Elder of Ziyon is showing what Israel truly is, and how Zionism has become a much maligned word, when in fact it has generated a Jewish state, which in turn is humanitarian, free and democratic.

I'm sorry this causes you such consternation.

Freedomlover

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=386651

Hamas: Recognizin​g Israel jeopardize​s our right to destroy Israel later
Hamas: Recognizing Israel jeopardizes rights

Published yesterday (updated) 11/05/2011 18:54

BETHLEHEM (Ma'an) -- Hamas will accept a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders, but will maintain its refusal to recognize Israel, party leader Mahmoud Az-Zahhar said Wednesday.

Speaking with Ma'an radio, the official said that Hamas was ready to recognize a Palestinian state "on any part of Palestine," for the first time publicly steering away from prior Hamas demands that the modern Palestinian state must be established "from the [Jordan] river to the [Mediterranean] sea."

Az-Zahhar also said, however, that a formal recognition of Israel would "cancel the right of the next generations to liberate the lands."

The Hamas leader said that recognizing Israel would jeopardize the right of return for Palestinian refugees who have been exiled from the land since 1948 when Israel was recognized by the United Nations.

If only Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are considered citizens of a Palestinian state, he continued, "what will be the fate of the five million Palestinians in the diaspora?"

At the same time, the Hamas leader confirmed the decision reached with Fatah to maintain the truce with Israel, calling the move "part of the resistance, not a cancellation," and noting that "truce is not peace."

Celato

Okey:

You say there is "no need for Zionists to issue condemnations" of Arabs because their "actions speak for themselves" ... and then do exactly that!

So the question is - why?

The sole reason I can think Zionists (in this blog, anyway) feel a compulsion to catalogue incidents of Arab aggression at every opportunity is to justify their own. "If only Israel's critics could see how extraordinarily savage Muslims are, they would get everything in perspective and understand why it is so often necessary for us to kill them."

But there's one big trouble with this line of thinking. It might work on people who don't have the faintest idea about the conflict whom you wish to enlist as newly committed supporters, but not on opponents who have already thought long and hard about where they stand. They are fully aware of Arab terrorist incidents, strife among Muslim factions, and so forth, but have come to quite different conclusions from yours about WHY such things occur and also about the "appropriateness" of Israel's responses.

To persuade someone reasonably well informed (e.g, me) to view Zionism in a "positive" light, you need to convince that there is a genuine will among Israelis to co-exist peaceably with Arabs and that those promoting bigotry are comprehensively marginalised. And you can't do this in the same breath as telling me there is something so fundamentally rotten about Arab culture that co-existence can never be possible since they're such barbaric savages!

By taking this line, all you invite are "moral equivalence" ripostes. For every insult you hurl at Muslims, I can compare your rhetoric (almost word for word!) with that of rabble-rousing Islamists; recite an act of Arab terrorism and I'll guarantee to give you two Israeli ones in return; show me an outrageous Palestinian propaganda hoax, and I'll trade you a couple from the hasbara box of tricks ...

So what are we left with? A moral stalemate? Unfortunately for Israel, it's not a stalemate at all. She has set herself up as the "champion" - morally superior in all respects to those with whom she is in conflict. So every time she blunders it's with a resounding crash, and the winners are those who have nothing to lose.

Freedomlover

One of the biggest of the "big lies" told about Israel is "Jews stole the land". Since no one reading this blog want to be a "big liar", here is the truth:

History, archeology, comparative religion tells us clearly that Israel has been the home of the Jewish people, and Jerusalem her capitol for 3000 years, beginning 2000 years BEFORE the advent of Islam. Jerusalem has never, EVER been the capitol of ANY Arab/Islamic/Palestinian entity.

In 1922, after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, decades BEFORE the Holocaust, the world decided, based on historical and archeological evidence, that the entire Jewish homeland is to be returned to the Jewish people after 2000 years of illegal rule by others.

Why no peace today? The supremacist ideology of the Palestinians as manifested in their (all factions) founding documents, political and media rhetoric and curriculum. Only when the Palestinians abandon jihadism for ecuminism, will there be a safe and permanent peace.

One short book (100 pages) to recommend to all: "History Upside Down, the Roots of Palestinian Fascism and the Myth of Israeli Aggression", by David Meir-Levi.

Okey

Celato, the reason that the operators of the levers of power in the Arab world commit atrocities is that they are ideologically committed to doing so. That is their "morality."

Their Western supporters subscribe to this ideology.

Celato

Adam B:

Blimey, what a low opinion you seem to have of Melanie, yourself, all your pals on this blog, and millions of Zionists elsewhere ... none of you "permitted" to counter the "continuous vilification and delegitimization" against Israel, poor things, so just whistling miserably in the wind for years and years, I guess...

How on earth Israel (somehow) managed to become a thriving, internationally-recognised state, with enormous military power, and doing a roaring trade in tourism to boot, is truly mystifying.

Simeon

John Bruce- Don't for one minute think that I dont care about a boy being shot in the eye. I do know that many "atrocities" in the west bank are often alterations of fact! Its true I dont know for sure in this case, but from what I have learnt I beleive its quite likely to be a little less straight forward than originally told.

john bruce

Simeon,

I do believe that you are decent man who hates the fact that a young boy was shot in the eye. But you immediately imply that it wasn't the IDFs fault without knowing any facts.

By always suggesting that it's always their fault and never the IDFs fault without knowing the actual facts you are basically condoning it.

Shame on you.

john bruce

Okey,

"John Bruce, Israeli forces have been known to kill fellow Israeli soldiers in accidental "friendly fire" incidents; hence why is it so incredible that occasionally Arabs are killed or injured unintentionally by these forces?"

Because in your recent little Gaza war, about 1400 Palestinians were killed. And the vast majority were innocent civilians. Thirteen Israelis were killed. Mainly soldiers shot by their own side.

You're not that carefull are you?

Freedomlover

Official from "moderate" Fatah says Fatah does not recognize Israel either - just like Hamas. How much longer will British Gov't go on fooling itself into believing the "moderate" PA/PLO/Fata/Abbas/Fayyad want a safe and durable peace with Israel? WHEN will British gov't recognize that Palestinian leadership is GENOCIDAL and WHEN will British gov't demand that the Palestinians - all factions - adopt a complete and total change of ideology, curriculum and politica/media rhetoric?

Senior Fatah Official: "No One In [Abbas'] Fatah & Hamas Movements Recognizes Israel"

May 12, 2011
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Morton A. Klein

In the wake of the Fatah/Hamas unity government agreement, Abdullah Abdullah, a senior Palestinian legislator and member of Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah party, which rules the Palestinian Authority (PA), said this week that “No one in Fatah and Hamas movements recognizes Israel.” He added, “Palestinians who are a nation under occupation have and will resist against the occupiers and we witness Palestinian resistance and conflicts with the Zionist regime in most regions.” Abdullah also emphasized that Fatah would never attend any negotiation with the Israeli regime if such talks are not based on the international rules, and stated, “If Israel withdraws from the Palestinian and Arab lands, it might be possible to enter peace negotiations. If Tel Aviv [sic] does not withdraw from the Palestinian territories, all Palestinian groups will resist against this occupation along with the Palestinian people” (‘Senior Palestinian MP: Fatah, Hamas Share Stance on Not Recognizing Israel,’ Fars News Agency, May 9, 2011).

These candid, extreme statements from Abbas’ ruling Fatah are also reflected in the results of new poll of Palestinian opinion, conducted by Near East Consulting, which found that about 40% of respondents said that they believe that an Islamic caliphate is the best system for Palestinians. 24% favor a system like those operating in Arab states, while only 12% prefer a system like one of the European countries. The survey also found that 57% identified themselves as Muslims, 21% identified themselves as Palestinians first, 19% as human beings first and 5% as Arabs first (‘Survey: Majority of Palestinians Believe Israel not Partner for Peace,’ WAFA [PLO] News Agency, May 4, 2011).
ZOA National President Morton A. Klein said, “The Fatah/Hamas unity agreement only confirms what ZOA has long been saying about the similarities in aims and methods of Fatah and Hamas. Now a senior Fatah official confirms the fact that Fatah and Hamas are essentially alike in their fundamental goals. Though ignored, Fatah officials have been denying (in Arabic and English) for years that they accept Israel as a Jewish state, or even recognize at all. Moreover, Abdullah’s words indicate that Fatah supports and justifies terrorism (‘resistance’) against Israel and expects to see more of it.

“Furthermore, Abdullah even says that the PA might not enter peace talks with Israel, even if Israel withdrew completely from Judea, Samaria and eastern Jerusalem. This is similar to the 2002 Arab so-called Peace Initiative, whereby Israel is required to totally withdraw from these territories and set up a Palestinian state, while nothing is required of the Arabs states until that happens and even then, nothing more concrete than ‘normalizing’ ties – perhaps – afterwards.

“When taken with some of the findings in the new Near East Consulting poll, we see what Palestinian elections – something that is to follow this Fatah/Hamas unity government agreement – will likely bring us: a Palestinian government that is more Islamist rather than Arab nationalist, one in which those seeking the Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood objective an Islamic Caliphate will predominate. We also see high support for an Islamic Caliphate, less support for a traditional Arab system – autocracy, dictatorship – and even less – only 12% - for a European style system – that is, democracy.

“The ZOA warned that polling evidence in Egypt showed what was likely to happen in Egypt after the end of the Mubarak regime – not democracy, but more radicalism. Today, we already see an Egypt in which the Muslim Brotherhood, of which Hamas is its Palestinian off-shoot, is likely to be the largest parliamentary bloc and in which the leading and fiercely anti-Israel presidential candidate, Amr Moussa, will likely align himself with Islamists. Given the Fatah/Hamas agreement and the latest polls, why expect a different sort of outcome in the PA?”

Okey

John Bruce, have you ever heard of the Arab tactic known as "the human shield?"
It's widely used in the Middle East.

Adam B.

John Bruce, the shame lies with you, repeating a clearcut lie about Operation Cast Lead. The "vast majority" were not civilians, this was Hamas propaganda put out at the time. Hamas has since retracted this, and admitted that over half those deaths were of their own Hamas combatants. Your casualty figures also ignore the fact that Israelis in southern towns were subjected to 8 years of rocket attacks before Israel took the action of Cast Lead. Every Kassam fired by the Palestinians is a double war crime - firstly, it is an indiscriminate weapon. Secondly, they are fired at civilians, from civilian areas. Both these acts are illegal.

This simple fact casts doubt on your other little story, as you are clearly eager to believe lies so long as they are concordant with your prejudiced views.

john bruce

Okey,

Yes I have heard of human shields.

It's a tactic well known to the IDF. Also, the Nazis used to use the same methods.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4333982.stm

john bruce

Adam B,

How many Israeli civilians were killed by those rockets?

Lots?

Some?

None?

How many Arab civilians were killed in Cast Lead? Grapes of Wrath?

Lots?

PeterF57

John Bruce,
Your bias towards Israel is vile and disturbing, but you get that with Jew haters. Yes, you read right, you are a Jew hater, although you, like other cowards, call yourselves Zionist haters.
Your views on Operation Cast Lead are wrong also, but you already know that.
I shan't go on about it, but I will say, if Israel did want to genocide the Palis, they could most certainly do it.
But they don't, nor will they ever, unlike those across their borders, who, if they had the weaponry to do so, would certainly genocide the Israelis, as is in their charters (read Hamas's charter about the obliteration of the Jews).
And let's face it, muslims kill many many more muslims than what Israel has done over the past 63 years.

Simeon

John Bruce_ I am not ashamed I am just pointing out to you the truth and addressing a real issue, the irony is i'm the one being portrayed as naive, this could go round in circles read some unbiased information....get off your high horse !

Simeon

P.s John Bruce, not to oversimplify but I AM NOT CONDONING THE ACT, don't be a typical lefty now and stop assuming the morale high ground!! I have explained my point and if you can't understand that well then that's as they say your problem.

Zeilig

Imagine that you are accused of a crime in a middle eastern country. What middle eastern country would you want to be tried in?

Freedomlover

Richard Goldstone repudiated his OWN report condemning Israel's actions during the anti-non-stop-Hamas-rocketing-Israel operation knows as Operation Cast lead.

All of those commenting here here spouting either Hamas propoganda and/or now-reputiated Goldstone report inaccuracies, should do the same. Admit you are mistaken. Defaming and blood libeling Israel will NOT lead to a safe and durable peace.

Remember, Israel withdrew unilaterally from Gaza so the Palestinians could have their own defacto state. Instead of ending the violence, Hamas IMMEDIATELY ramped up the violence. Instead of imitating Israel, adoping ecumenism and personal and economic freedom, Hamas increased the attacks on Israel, and, sadly for the Palestinians living in Gaza, formed a fundamentalist Islamic state denying ALL personal and economic freedom.

Again, covering up for and/or lying for the Palestinians will NEVER bring peace.

Adam B.

John Bruce, two comments:

1. Your comparison between Israel and the Nazis is disgusting and racist. The EUMC has defined antisemitism to include comparisons between Jews and Nazis. If you disagree with Israeli tactics, fine. Explain why. But cackhanded attempts to portray Israelis as Nazis is not only intellectually dishonest, it is morally repugnant.
2. If you wish to reduce the entire conflict to casualty figures, then you inevitably arrive at your conclusion. If however, one wishes to think on a slightly more sophisticated level, one may ascertain the reasons for the difference in casualties. the Israelis build shlters. The Palestinians have built none. The Israelis, during hostilities, spend hours every day in the shelters, sometimes living down there for days on end. The Palestinians fight from their civilian population centres, often in civilian clothing, using their own population as human shields. Hamas spokespeople have been quite open about this at times - it constitutes a double victory - if Israel aborts a strike against Hamas because there are civilians in the vicinity, it is a victory. If Israel does strike Hamas and civilians are killed, that is also a propaganda victory. It is also worth pointing out that Israel never targets civilians directly, whilst Hamas do nothing but target civilians, and celebrates their deaths in the streets. No such celebrations happen in Israel - indeed, if you were remotely familiar with Israeli society, you would see much soul searching, whilst there is none in the Palestinian areas.

Furthermore, to reduce the conflict to these terms completely ignores cause and effect. For every British civilian killed in WW2, the Germans lost 25 civilians. Obviously, following your flawed "logic", Britain was the aggressor and the Germans were poor victims of British aggression.

You need to start thinking, instead of parrotting slogans.

Adam B.

John Bruce, do you retract your lie about the casualty figures being mostly civilians?

Adam B.

Celato not "mystefying", but instead a modern day miracle, as Israel has survived several attempts at genocide against her people, and a current campaign of deligitimization and demonisation.

Okey

Adam B., John Bruce will never retract any of his patently false assertions because, as his posts show, he is in the Hamas et al camp, and one of their dogmas is the practice of "taqyieh", i.e., dissimulation.

Okey

In my previous post, referring to the Islamic doctrine of dissimulation, I should have used the following transliteration: taqiyya

Adam B.

Thanks Okey. Funny that such people are good at making accusations, but at the first sign of having them disproven, they disappear.

I know what he is - and I don't reply to change his prejudiced mind. I just don't want lies to go unchallenged.