The smirking hard-liners of Tehran

Hysteria

put the analysis from Ms. Phillips together with this report (also being covered in the US mainstream media today)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7465170.stm

and you can draw some pretty unwelcome conclusions

kiarie

The world will have to deal with Iran sooner or later... using the popular cliche its just a case of when

Thinkster

What I don't get is, why do countries like Iran who, (correct me if I am wrong), have vast oil reserves need economic concessions from the West - or anyone else for that matter?

Paul Hill

Wouldn't it be more dignified if the Press Office at the Israeli Embassy just published whatever drivel it wants to see in print by making a press release rather than bothering poor old Mel with all these big words and foreign sounding names?

phil

It makes you wonder how Churchill felt in the thirties when he had to contend with the nonsense from people like paul hill-when will this world ever learn the lessons of history -By bribing Iran it shows we certainly have not-They are just laughing at us and the buffoons that cannot see the obvious.

steve

Thinkster: Yes, Iran has considerable oil wealth but it lacks refinery capacity and still obviously has to import other high tech goods from the west. Inflation at the moment is running anywhere from 20 to 30 percent and this is having a big impact on the Iranian public and may well lead to Ahmadinejad's defeat in next year's presidential election.

It's also important to point out that Ahmadinejad is not Iran's head of state and it is unclear how much say he actually has over Iran's foreign policy. There are multiple power sources in Iran with considerable competition between them. In some ways this makes Iranian policy that much more difficult to read.

George Steiner

For Britain there is a way out. Islamise faster and Teherean will spare you.

Chris

I hope we'll be vouchsafed pictures of their smug faces when they face the inevitable consequences of their current ruinous path:

'An Israeli air force drill that appeared to rehearse a potential attack on Iran's nuclear facilities was designed as a strategic flexing of muscles, military experts said today.

An Israeli political official familiar with the drill, which secretly took place on the first week of June, said that the Iranians should “read the writing on the wall”.

“This was a dress rehearsal, and the Iranians should read the script before they continue with their program for nuclear weapons," the official said.

"If diplomacy does not yield results, Israel will take military steps to halt Tehran's production of bomb-grade uranium.” '

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article4178960.ece

Kevyn Bodman

kiarie:
'The world will have to deal with Iran sooner or later...'
Do you mean a) trade with, do business with, have normal two-way relations without threatening undertones
or
b) put down?

I would like the world to deal with Iran by policy a)
but I fear that it won't be possible and it'll have to be policy b).

I say it without enthusiasm.

London Calling

No doubt the extreme Zionists are getting the bubbly ready for
celebrations, how naive, or should I say how clever, especially as now a truce between Hamas and Israel is on the table, so why not bomb Iran sooner rather than later?

Israelis 'rehearse Iran attack'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7465170.stm

Ahmadinejad may have the horns of a goat, but sometimes when he chews some truth does come forth and this has enabled me to look at the bigger picture.

Market full of oil
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080617/ts_nm/iran_oil_ahmadinejad_dc

As Henry Kissinger declared in the 1970’s, ‘If you control the oil you control the country; if you control food, you control the population.’

And I would add to that....If you control the population you control the world...

Microchips implanted in 160 Mexican officials

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5439055/

With regards to the Grain prices and shortages, in my view there is a more sinister motive behind the headlines, as with the oil prices.

'The Green Revolution was based on proliferation of new hybrid,
no competitor or farmer would be able to produce the hybrid. The global concentration of hybrid seed patents into a handful of giant seed companies,

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7529

It may interest you to know that the tower of Babel, global communications via the internet can be shut down in an instant and plans are already being put forward to control bloggers under the terrorist act and also the internet in the near future, so enjoy this space whilst you can.

Melanie, your loyalty towards the extreme Zionist are misplaced, your loyalty to Jews are not questioned, but your loyalty to the truth is what we shall all be judged on in the eyes of God.

London Calling

No doubt the extreme Zionists are getting the bubbly ready for
celebrations, how naive, or should I say how clever, especially as now a truce between Hamas and Israel is now on the table, so why not bomb Iran sooner rather than later?

Israelis 'rehearse Iran attack'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7465170.stm

Ahmadinejad may have the horns of a goat, but sometimes when he chews some truth does come forth and this has enabled me to look at the bigger picture.

Market full of oil
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080617/ts_nm/iran_oil_ahmadinejad_dc

As Henry Kissinger declared in the 1970’s, ‘If you control the oil you control the country; if you control food, you control the population.’

And I would add to that....If you control the population you control the world...

Microchips implanted in 160 Mexican officials

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5439055/

With regards to the Grain prices and shortages, in my view there is a more sinister motive behind the headlines, as with the oil prices.

'The Green Revolution was based on proliferation of new hybrid,
no competitor or farmer would be able to produce the hybrid. The global concentration of hybrid seed patents into a handful of giant seed companies,

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7529

It may interest you to know that the tower of Babel, global communications via the internet can be shut down in an instant and plans are already being put forward to control bloggers under the terrorist act and also the internet in the near future, so enjoy this space whilst you can.

Melanie, your loyalty towards the extreme Zionist are misplaced, your loyalty to Jews are not questioned, but your loyalty to the truth is what we shall all be judged on in the eyes of God.

Canadian Mike

To Paul Hill:
Attack the messenger when you are incapable of attacking the message. The standard operating procedure for the intellectually inferior. Remember, "it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool...". I'm sure you know the rest.

M Clyde

I don't understand why Iran still can't refine oil?

M Clyde

What I mean is, how come a country which is intent on building a bomb, and may well have done so, still not know how to refine oil?

eric james

“In a very few years, perhaps in a very few months, we shall be confronted with demands with which we shall no doubt be invited to comply. Those demands may affect the surrender of territory or the surrender of liberty. I foresee and foretell that the policy of submission will carry with it restrictions upon the freedom of speech and debate in Parliament, on public platforms, and discussions in the press, for it will be said--indeed, I hear it said sometimes now - that we cannot allow the system of dictatorship to be criticized by ordinary, common English politicians. Then, with a press under control, in part direct but more potently indirect, with every organ of public opinion doped and chloroformed into acquiescence, we shall be conducted along further stages of our journey.” -- Winston Churchill

George Steiner

I was taking to a nice Armenian lady as I was buying my supply of nuts from her store. Ah Iran, she said very rich country.

Well not quite. There are some 70 million Iranians. The GDP per head of Iran is some 2,000 dollars. Contrast this with about 35,000 dollars GDP per head for Britain.

As for refining versus producing. A refinery is a very sophisticated petrochemical operation. The process units are complex, the control systems are complex, maintenance requirements are considerable. And the process operators and maintenance people have to be well trained.

In a poor country which Iran is, what are you going to do with lots of refining capacity?

With enriched uranium you can have prestige. With nuclear weapons you can threaten and anhiliate. Which would you have if you were some mad mullahs?

Terry

Paul Hill is confused - he appears to believe the antisemitic conspiracy theories that abound about how the 'Israeli lobby' is in fact running the world to everyone else's detriment. You obviously wagged history classes at schoold, Paul. If you get a chance, read about the rise of the german nazis, WW2 and 60 million dead, 10% of whom were conspiring, surrogate world government ministers (won't call them Jews cos you so don't want to be thought of as an antisemitic racist). If the iranian nazis end up doing the same thing with a nuclear bomb, you might like to reflect on your last post and ask if you aren't just a little bit responsible for genocide. I'd say that the Germans who humoured and appeased nazism bear more than a little of the blame for its results. Which side would you have been on, Paul? And which side are you on now?

Roy

This subject reminds me of the way the late Historian AJP Taylor described the details of the political maneuvering before World War II. His Oxford compatriots were quite annoyed in the way Taylor made a different from the usual swing of things. In the way Hitler was motivated and what was thought to be planned and what was impulse. Taylor's understanding was that things were not planned. That Hitler played the game of bluff and ruse, that he moved and watched and listened to the other players in the European scene. When he got away with so much so quickly, he just moved on for more and more, unbelieving in his luck and ease of it all. The crumbling incompetence of any opposition was too good for anything he could have wished for. Of course it isn't quite the same, but isn't there a subtle similarity?

Groovy Times

What is London Calling talking about? Who are these extreme Zionists? Can we have some sort of context please that shows an understanding of cause and effect. The fact that you read Melanie's blog regularly suggests you are choosing to forget some very troubling aspects of Iranian ideology:
It is the first country since Nazi Germany to officially sanction an anti-Semitic art exhibition. It invites such 'dignitaries' as David Duke of the Ku Klux Klan to question the validity of the Holocaust. Ahmadinejad takes every opportunity to boast that Israel's days are numbered and he's the man to make it happen. If I was an ordinary/reasonable/mild-mannered/non-extreme Israeli - like the ones London Calling believes Melanie is allowed to defend - I'd be expecting my government to remove the nuclear sword that Ahmadinejad is preparing to hang over my neck.

Brian Gould

The recent Israeli Air Force exercise brings to mind a remark made a couple of years ago by Gen. Dan Halutz, a senior Air Force officer, reported in The Economist. Asked how far Israel would go to stop Iran’s nuclear programme, Halutz replied: “two thousand kilometres”.

YA

Exercise is most likely a red herring.
If West strikes, that will be by packs of cruise missiles and unmanned drones, targeting not only Natanz but all missile bases and command/control.
But, not now.
Most likely what should follow is another round of softening sanctions.

Brian Gould

Interesting post, YA. Your forecast sounds convincing. One detail, if I may: your "packs of cruise missiles and unmanned drones" would be launched from how many different countries?

Ann

I assume that the poster Lord Haw Haw checks under his bed every evening for 'extreme Zionists', and no doubt wears a tin hat to make sure they don't transmit telepathic messages into his head (I won't say 'brain').
There is NO 'truce', Lord Haw Haw, only breathing space for genocidal lunatics, much like those in the third Reich. Do try to keep us.

YA

from how many countries? - from all sides, Iraq, Afghanistan, Diego Garcia, fleet and bases in the Gulf.

But there won't be strike without pre-text. Which might be some provocation in or around Israel.

The whole point of Western strategy is this - sit quietly and enjoy blockades and sanctions that you deserve. But if you dare to raise head, have no illusions, high intensity action is your sure end.

field

Steve says:

"It's also important to point out that Ahmadinejad is not Iran's head of state and it is unclear how much say he actually has over Iran's foreign policy.

There are multiple power sources in Iran with considerable competition between them. In some ways this makes Iranian policy that much more difficult to read."

Please stop the BS - we've heard it all before. There is an essential unity among all factions within the Islamic Republic: (a) build a bomb and (b) destroy Israel.

It was a shock for the Jack Straw school of foreign "policy" when Rafsanjani came out in favour of the genocidal elimination of Israel.

I am a little concerned that the Iranians seem confident that Israel won't be able to destroy their facilities.

Let's just hope they haven't already bought a bomb on the black market, or from Pakistan or North Korea and it isn't already sitting in downtown New York or Los Angeles.

Bogdan of Australia

Oh Mamma Mia, Ya, Ya, Ya! What kind of Western Strategy are Ya talking about? France's strategy that has just lowered spendings on her already decrepit defence forces? Germany"s strategy with her dad's army of overweight clerks in uniforms? Italy's strategy with her mediocre soldiers who cannot find a city on the map during excercises in Scandinavia? Britain's strategy that is no longer capable of providing her soldiers with a proper equipment? Eurabia's strategy that has some two million men in uniforms but provides only some 2% to various international military operations, like building storages, lavatories and water wells? Australia's strategy that has just cowardly pulled their troops from Iraq? Spain's treacherous stretegy? Norway's and Sweden's self destructing strategy of appeasing the Islamofascists? Poland's, Czechs', Slovaks' full of confusion strategy? Bush's administration's collapsing strategy? Obama's "let's talk to terrorists" insane strategy? Olmert's strategy of political masturbation? Are Ya talking about West's "strategy" of driving Ahmadinejad to death from laughter? Perhaps that's gonna be working...

Brian Gould

YA, you seem to be saying that this attack on Iran, if it ever happens, would be strictly a US initiative. It is your belief that Israel would not or could not launch such an attack by itself – have I understood you correctly?

In that case I have a follow-up question for you. What difference will the US presidential election make? If Obama wins, would he be equally as willing as McCain to launch an attack of this kind? Or would he perhaps set the Iranian pretext/provocation at a higher level?

J. Isaacs

I do love Shag My Dinnerjacket's smirking "V" sign in the photo above. Very Churchillian. Perhaps he has been reading some 2WW history books to help with his holocaust denial studies. Maybe he is reading the one written by Mahmoud Abbas, whose doctoral thesis was, apparently, on this subject. However, he clearly has not read Sir Martin Gilbert's "History of the Holocaust," or other books, as he does not appear to understand which side won the last War.

Ann

Terry and Mike (and Phil), I doubt that you'll get through to a common or garden ignorant Jew-hater.

Leon

The "relatively reformist" Iranian cleric / political leader, Rafsanjani, actually preceded Ahmadinejad by several years in threatening to wipe Israel out of existence.

Martin Hanson

Whenever I read 'media is', or in this case, 'media has', I stop reading.

YA

Bogdan, you nicely summarize on difficulties. But there are not only difficulties.
A simple truth is, that a grain of West's power will break million of Iranian camels' backs. Iranians don't have spare parts for their 30 years old civil aviation planes, and we are launching space shuttles and probes on Mars. They are trembling awaiting Israeli spit, their orks are rammed into ground everywhere, Lebanon, Iraq, Gaza.

Brian: if something happens with Israeli embassy in Ottawa, that should be joint US, Israeli and Canadian initiative. And others who don't want it to spread.
IMHO, Obama in White House will never materialize, and McCain will continue the same strategy. But on military strikes, and escalation in general, - I am doubtful. Maybe I'm too optimistic.

Tom

As if the West wasn't dumb enough about the Middle East already, now I read this:

"Gordon Brown invites Saudi Arabia to invest in Britain's nuclear industry"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/06/20/bcnbrown120.xml

Perhaps Britain will end up making Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's nuclear bomb for him and the Saudis can collect a bit of commission on it. They need some more money for all those mosques they keep erecting in Britain, after all.

Charlie

Iran is not just a threat to Israel but all sunni muslim states. The uncle of the King of Jordan has publicly raised the threat of Iran. Hizbollah threatens a coup d'etat in Lebanon. Grand Ayatollah Khomeini threatened all muslim countries which had did not have all rule by muslim jurists in his book "Muslim Government". Khomein changed the view that muslim jurists should advise the rulers to saying that only they were suited to rule a country.Khomeini believed in theocratic dictatorhsip with the use of violence being acceptable to impose rule on the people.Khomeini used torture extensively to impose his will on Iran.In fact, his view of exporting revolutionary activity is very similar to Lenin's. This is the reason Iraq, supported by other Gulf states attacked Iran. Khomeini threatened Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabaia and the other members of the GCC . The problem for Iran is that rule by mullah's and the often poorly educated revolutionary guard has produced a country incapable of developing modern technology, hence the inability to refine petrol from crude oil. There are rumours that Saudi Arabia is in the market for nuclear bombs to act as a deterrence against Iran.The destruction of Iran's nuclear weapons capability would probably greated with relief by large numbers of countries in the Middle East, not just Israel. Iran's training of Hizbollah and Hamas and it's friendly relations with the pro-shia rulers of Syria make a very devious and effective creator of conflict in the Middle East. The mistake was to invade Iraq. The threat since 1979, when Khomeini came to power was Iran's determination to export it's revolutionary beliefs and in particular, destabilise it's neighbours.

phil

ANN i agree with you but one thing I have found is when I tackle them with logic and fact they rarely continue the "debate" Just ask them a question and they disappear-ndm has run away again and senor hill has disappeared too -happy days .

JimBob

no more "negotiations"-you can't reason with a psychopath. We need to hit them hard ASAP. Thats why im hoping America sees sense and elects John McCain

Brian Gould

YA, any particular reason for singling out Ottawa in your last post (12.41 p.m.)? Some rumor going around, maybe?

Or did you just pick the name at random as an example, as you might equally well have cited the Israeli embassy in Canberra or Caracas, Helsinki or Hanoi?

YA

Brian: Yes, here it is -

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/06/19/hezbollah-canada.html?ref=rss

..but that is most likely a bluff. HZ get good money by forcing Canadian Lebanese to pay "resistance" ransom, and they won't risk loosing this income.
Operationaly they don't have (and shouldn't have) many options abroad.

steve

Sorry Field but I found your post rather confusing. There's complete agreement between various factions in Iran that they will build a bomb and then use that bomb to destroy Israel but that maybe they've bought a bomb and it's sitting in New York or L.A. Which is it or perhaps you really don't have a clue what you're talking about?

Brian Gould

YA, just been doing some googling, the Hezbollah Canada threat doesn't seem to have made it into the British media, not even Reuters or the BBC. Curious ...

Byron in Wahroonga

***It makes you wonder how Churchill felt in the thirties when he had to contend with the nonsense from people like paul hill***

He would have stayed the course. Churchill was aware of Paul Hill-type thinking, though.

Mosley's blackshirts received plenty of press coverage.

Commondog

Steve.

To clear your confusion: both ideas floated by field are entirely plausible. Any open minded observer would be able to appreciate that.

Perhaps rather than him not knowing what he is talking about, it's people like you who refuse to listen for whatever reason?

patricia

Its a poisonous combination.

Zionists - who care not a jot about anyone else

Neocons - who have 5 months to go before being consigned to history and care not a jot about Republicans and their chances under McCain, or the American people who they pretend to represent

Oil companies - whose profits will rise exponentially after an Iranian attack.

With forces such as those reigned against the world, god help Iran, and the rest of us.

Lorna

I don't know what you're worried at, patricia. From across the pond here it looks like Britain's neo-Left Government will bring about your Caliphate dream soon enough.

Had yourself checked out for a refuse bag dress yet? Maybe you can cover up the trash that comes out of your mouth that way.

patricia

Ann and Lorna.

Am I right?
Are you each Melanie Phillips' pseudonyms - her way of responding to her antagonists!

Excellent! Keep it up!

Deliciously arrogant, Delightfuly contemptuous and
Decidedly intolerant!

Who needs reasoned, informed debate when spitting, hissing venom will do?

michael

Iran could bomb its own nuclear installations and the US would quickly think up some other excuse to attack it.

The US has been looking for ways to pulverise Iran since the 50s, when they dismantled Iran's new fangled parliamentary democracy and installed the brutal Shah, resulting in the Mullahs eventually seeing the opportunity to take power in '79.

Look at US support for Iraq's invasion of Iran which cost that country about 1 million lives.

So US warmongering is nothing new.

And if Israel can do some US bidding while looking good at home, maybe even reducing a few more Palestinian homes to rubble and knocking up some more settlements when nobody is looking, then so what?

Fact is, no one anywhere believes Iran would ever dare launch a strike on Israel, because even the maddest Mullah knows what the consequences would be. Truth is that Israel just cannot stand the thought of a Muslim neighbour going Nuclear.

Iran has no record of attacking anyone, and consequently is now hemmed in from all sides by US interests in Iraq, Afghanistan and Israel.

Problem for all you devotees of the US/Israeli junta, is Iraq. If the US and Israel had not overcooked it there, maybe an Iranain strike would have been possible.

Tina

Goodness me, Patricia. Those two ladies were just having a gentle laugh.

Quite unlike the sentiments they oppose. You know the sort of thing I mean: "Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks and when ye have caused a bloodbath among them bind a bond firmly on them."

I mean, what’s intolerant about that? You obviously think you have a monopoly on the word.

phil

Michael one cannot argue with your undoubted knowledge"Problem for all you devotees of the US/Israeli junta, is Iraq. If the US and Israel had not overcooked it there, maybe an Iranian strike would have been possible." For the simple minded amongst us can you inform us what Israel's role in Iraq was ?

phil

No way Lorna ,many have tried to change her ways none with success.even the petrol strike did not stop the broomstick flying -most of us MEL impersonators just keep ducking :)

Adam B.

Patricia, you write "Zionists - who care not a jot about anyone else."

No generalisations there, just reasoned, well thought out prose. And yet you have the audacity to accuse others of "hissing venom". Look in the mirror!

Ann

"US/Israeli junta" - yep, those atavistic Jew-haters always give themselves away in the end, however sane and rational they try to appear.

Paul Hill

For a moderately sensible projection of Iranian nuclear capability try www.dri.gov for the latest CIA National Intelligence Estimate (release date 11.6.2008) and then ask why poor old Melanie and the Mellallieuh chorus of freeze dried Churchill experts are so keen to start bombing before Obama gets his feet up in the Oval Office

Seen from a spot not unadjacent to Bladon churchyard it looks a bit like one slightly unappealing bunch of Middle Eastern Gents (who have illegally acquired nuclear weapond) complaining about another bunch of very unappealing Middle Eastern Gents who may be propsing to illegally obtain nuclear weapons

Incidentally well done to the few posters on this blog(and it's Islamo-fascist opposite number)who try to penetrate the sub-arctic mental tundra that the acolytes of people such as poor deranged Mel seem to inhabit

Ann

I duck for nobody, Phil, least of all for an amateur witch flying an L-plated broomstick.

Commondog

michael.

"So US warmongering is nothing new."

Why, if the US is such a warmongering nation, have they found it such a struggle 'looking for ways to pulverise Iran since the 50s'?

Surely over such a long period, they might have found a way to do the job?

Dave M

The situation is complex. What I can't figure out, though, is this: Why was Saddam Hussein pushed out of power when his political regime acted as a counterweight buffer to Iran? Iraq was basically secular under Saddam Hussein, almost in the same way as Turkey today. Once Saddam Hussein was deposed, of course, (and at considerable loss of life), the Shia, religious element was once again set loose in Iraq, drawing it closer to Iran. So, the Iraq invasion was to Iran's advantage and even acted as a smoke screen so Iran could develop a nuclear program without as much attention. Also, with so many U.S. soldiers on the border, Iranians voted in Ahmajinedad as a knee-jerk reaction. Had it not been for Bush's war, just maybe a moderate leader would have been in power in Iran and we'd not be in such a mess today. The options for Israel are now stark and unpredictable. It's hard to say how Iran will retaliate if Israel launches air strikes and then how Israel may feel forced to respond if Iran attacks Telaviv. However, Israel will have to act to prevent Iran getting a bomb so this could be rough ride ahead.

Tom

I’d say because Iraq was doable, Dave M. It was possible to get a ground troops in there in a way that it isn’t with Iran.

Once al Qaeda had been driven out of Afghanistan, they were always going to look for a new place to train recruits.

Pakistan is good… as long as the authorities there don’t find you.

Saddam may have helped provide the space and time to regroup. And al Qaeda and Saddam did have links, as someone hereabouts has kept pointing out:

http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=441

http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1509

Saddam and Osama were never on the same plane but they both knew the value of the adage: “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

It was always better to nip that little tete a tete between rogues in the bud rather than let a full-blown terrorist romance develop.

Tehran might have been on its knees by now had the right number of troops been sent into Iraq.

Rumsfeld’s biggest error was to try to pioneer a new form of warfare using far fewer ground troops than his generals wanted – than had ever been used for something like this before.

That and the failure to maintain the Baath party structure are what led to Iraq’s disintegration and have delayed the necessity of dealing with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Charlie

Dave M , you are correct , the situation is complex. The problem is that only Bush experience senior has had any overseas. Clinton and Bush junior had no overseas experience.The invasion of Iraq has been a major mistake because it has taken the World's attention from Iran. Under Khomeini, the Iranians has been spreading conflict throughout the Middle East, including bombings in Saudi Arabia. The other major mistake was not supporting Afghanistan once the Soviets's had left.Remember Khomeini in his book " Muslim Government" threatens to otherthrow all governments in muslim countries which do not agree with him and he is prepared to use violence to achieve his aims. If you want to have a similar mentality in European history look at The Inquisition when it was at it's height. If people studied Ayatolah Sadegh Khalkhali, then perhaps they would have a better understanding of Khoemeini's brutal regime. I disagree with much that Bush and Israel have done but that does not diminish the massive threat posed by Iran through it's proxy organisations.The world is too complicated just to say that just because one disagrees with Bush then all statements made by him are wrong. Churchill had to side with Stalin even though he murdered 20,000 Polish officers at Katyn Wood. Polish pilots were vital in the winning of the Battle of Britain. Even after the entry of the Soviets in May 1941 the Polish still fought the Nazis. Bush was wrong on Iraq but he is right on the threat by Iran.

Ann

Oh, this is hilarious. Paul Hill genuinely thinks that Israeli nuclear weapons are 'illegal' because they didn't ask for his permission first.
Paul, the Israelis are sticking two fingers up to prats like you - and I join them.

phil

Paul hill from your spot adjacent to bladon churchyard you have no doubt sunk a few Newcastle browns too many which are now pouring out as torrents of tosh .you may also learn to spell before addressing freeze dried Churchill experts and slightly unappealing middle eastern gents -if you had the address of the broomstick garage perhaps you could post from there-no doubt a little warmer than your haunt in the graveyard.

Ben-Tsiyon (ha rishon)

Be patient, all ye Brit. members of AIFSA (the Arab/IslamoFacist Supporters' Association)who like to post here! The way things are going,you won't have long to wait for the British branch of the Caliphate to come into its own.

When I recall how xenophobic this nation was in the days of my youth (especially as regards the Jews), I have to laugh over its current state, and even more so over its future prospects.

davod

"For a moderately sensible projection of Iranian nuclear capability try www.dri.gov for the latest CIA National Intelligence Estimate (release date 11.6.2008)."

I think we are past taking the words of the Running dog imperialist baby killers. Much better to take the words of an independent like IAEA Director-General Dr. Muhammad Al-Baradei who said on June 20, 2008, on Al-Arabiya TV, that "Iran Can Produce Enough Enriched Uranium for a Nuclear Bomb in Six Months to a Year..."

Paul Hill

"Phil" dear old thing- you Googled the wrong Bladon ;you unspeakable numpty

A clue;It's the one near Oxford not the Newcastle Brown one

phil

paul does anyone care where you come from -tosh is still tosh wherever it lives .

Alexandrovich

Paul Hill: you'd also think he'd notice the other Blaydon is spelt differently, seeing as how he picked you up on spelling.

Phil, that 'good education' you told us you had received - too late to ask for your money back I suppose?

Paul Hill

No........... still not quite got it yet have we Phil?

Try Googling as I suggested and you'll have doubled your knowledge about the 20th Century British politician you have such enormous knowledge of

Now run alomg,,,,,,there's a good chap.........and no tantrums

Alexandrovich

"paul does anyone care where you come from -tosh is still tosh wherever it lives."

Another reasoned and polite response from Phil.

Ann

Paul Hill thinks that knowing the OS coordinates of Bladon is sufficient counterbalance to mouth-frothing antisemitism - and he calls Phil 'numpty'. You couldn't make it up.

Ann

Alexandrovich, you seem to value politeness over truth, honesty, knowledge, maybe even sanity ...

Dave M

The Iraq War is one small point where I happen to disagree with Melanie even though on most political points, I think Melanie is pretty spot on. I just don't see how the overthrow of an ageing, secular dictator such as S. Hussein was of any advantage to Israel, America or Europe. True, S.H. was actively encouraging suicide bombings within Israel by donating money to the families of so-called Palestinian martyrs but I believe he could have been pushed into ceasing this interference. I see the main reason for the Iraq war as the U.S. making sure a new Iraq would do oil business with the Repubs instead of with Russia, France and Germany who were pro Saddam. That is, if sanctions had been lifted, S.H. would have dealt with France and Russia and that didn't suit Bush at all. Therefore, I was disappointed Israel never condemned the Iraq War as a farce. The truth is maybe it couldn't do so as the U.S. sells arms to Israel and supports Israel. So maybe Israel was helpless to oppose the said policy. However the case may be, Iran was always the main threat and not Iraq. Where I do agree with Melanie is Israel may have to act now for its own interests and this may call for a military option. However, it would help matters if the U.S. didn't have thousands of troops on Iran's borders so Iran could save face and back down before we get to war. Iran has seen how North Korea has been able to flex its muscles over its nuclear technology so wants the same bargaining chip. It probably fears another Bible bashing American president which is part of the problem and reason for Ahmajinedad being in office. All in all, I'm saying, yes, Israel may have to act but just maybe we wouldn't be in this mess if it weren't for Bush Junior and his simplistic, greedy foreign policy. He seems to have gotten Israel into an untidy mess.

phil

Alexandrovich thanks for your comments I am flattered that you read every post I make and no doubt your knowledge is improving in leaps and bounds -and its free !!

Ann

What on earth has 'aging' (we all age, Dave) got to do with it? Mugabe is in his 80s, and is still a mass-murderer.

I'd love to know your detailed plan for 'pushing him' to stop being a regional menace.

phil

paul hill am I wrong or is this thread about Tehran or your current hideaway ?-can you entertain us with some sensible political input rather than the childish insults you seem only to indulge in ?-or maybe you and alexandrivel are planning a Morcambe and Wise tribute act .a little advice-don't give up your day jobs guys .

I do normally try to post with reasoned comment but occasionally it is necessary to address posters like you who are trying to spoil normal debate between people who do not necessarily agree with one another ,but you seem only want to insult the Israelis and the Jewish people .:you may be famous amongst your group but you have probably noticed that your views are held in contempt amongst the intelligent people who post here ,and not only by unappealing middle eastern gents .Those gents will be well aware as I am of where the great sir Winston is buried but will have no wish to indulge in your sordid humour about him .