The BBC's contamination

JH

Spot on Melanie. I draw some comfort from the fact that Bonekickers is such monumental drivel that nobody will watch it anyway. Certainly compared to the more mainstream delights of Top Gear. But what about the not so 'subtle use of bias' elsewhere? The lefty love-in that is 'The News Quiz' on Radio 4 is where Sandi Toksvig(declared lib dem), Jeremy Hardy (declared SWP/Respect) party on like its 1984 with a never ending series of jibes at Blair (too right wing), Brown (not left wing enough) combined with vitriolic contempt for the US, Israel, capitalism and free markets.

Roy

The chain should be pulled. No prayers, no speech-making, no tears. Just let the whole disintegrating corpse disappear where it belongs in the city's marvellous sewerage facility.

thomas

And what exactly are the Tories going to do about it? No-one else can do it or ever will be able to; it's up to them.

Ray

Ah, evangelical Christians: the last great 'minority' that it's okay to stereotype and ridicule.

Barry Larking

"Terrifying" is not the word I would have used. Risible, yes. I used to get exercised about this drip drip of 'political' comment inserted into programmes in which plausibility might have seemed a more pressing objective.

I have a long memory in television drama. The quality of overtly political content in contemporary drama was always very patchy and frequently creaking. Ms Phillips' correspondent might reflect on whether their reaction was not more universally held by viewers. Outright preaching as described is rarely unnoticed. It would be interesting to learn how many complaints there were on this programme.

The BBC is deep in a battle for market share. The rise of satellite cable and internet services has placed them in an entirely new situation. Yet the grievance I sense in the political reportage of the Corporation stems less from the struggle to become an international brand but rather with having been exposed over the Kelly Affair. The resonance of that episode is still with us and as far as the BBC is concerned someone is going to have to pay.

Thinkster

The second I saw a preview for Bonekickers, I was convinced it would be an attempt by the BBC to re-write or comment on history/culture. Note that several episodes of Doctor Who have demonised Christianity. In an episode last year, the enemy spaceship that ended up exploding at the end was in the very obvious shape of a huge cross.

In 2003 or so, in a social environment, I met someone whose anti-Israel bias was obvious during our conversation. When we discussed our careers, he informed me he was a program buyer for BBC. (I jocked that it should be called the 'ABC', his reply was, (no kidding), "I wish!")

Marwan

The champagne socialists who populate the ministry of truth are beneath contempt. These luvvies and their puppet masters, stuffed to the gills with taxpayers money assuage their guilt at their undeserved salaries and semi-"celebrity" status by flashing their pc credentials at every opportunity. The BBC is no longer needed and should be abolished forthwith. Commercial channels are quite sufficient. If I want to watch non-stop islamist propoganda I can tune in to al Jazeera The slavering beebs riduculous imitations are laughable.

N. Simon

Bonekickers could have been a great series if it weren't for the BBC twist, where they portray the real-life victims as perpertrators, and the real-life perpertrators as victims... what a waste of taxpayers money...

Don't bother to watch it unless you sympathise with terror, or are a left wing, anti-western fascist!

THX1138

Ray -Christians evangelical or not, Jews, Muslim, Buddhists, Hindus they all deserve ridiculing the more better. God doesn't exist you are wasting your time, stop fighting each other & go get a life & stop ruining mine & everyone else's on the planet with your superstitious, fairy story clap trap.

EvarVooVar

It's been a worrying trend in BBC dramas for quite a while now, this subliminal drip drip of the BBC's agenda.

Spooks, Bonekickers, The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear, the list goes on.

Who could forget the removal of Friar Tuck from Robin Hood, only to be replaced by a Muslim saracen? Or Sherriff of Notingham Keith Allen's comments about the series? "Robin Hood is a family show with a young audience in mind. But older viewers may also spot parallels in parts of the script to Iraq and the war on terror. I think the morality of each story has a very contemporary resonance about it. We can't ignore Iraq and the war."
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/entertainment/film_and_tv/s/224/224915_this_maid_aint_no_lady.html

Next, there's Burn Up, an everyday tale of a love triangle between an (undoubtedly evil) oil company boss, a fifth columnist environmentalist, and an industry lobbyist all set against the backdrop of a global climate change summit.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/burnup/

Thank God Fox won't let 24 go the same way as Spoooks!

Miranda Rose Smith

It wouldn't surprise me at all if John Cleese has a decent, well rounded intellect, and this kind of thing cries out for satire-the nastier the better.

Peter Jackson

I'm a big admirer of yours Melanie but am amazed you haven't spotted this earlier - like 30 years ago. It isn't a conspiracy, it's a mind set, which thinks its OK to allow left wing comedians (or whatever Marcus Brigstock is meant to be)free rein to air their prejudices on Radio 4, without any attempt at offering any balance. The idea of alternative views (held by the majority of licence payers incidentally) is inconceivable to them. As, if I remember rightly, Robin Aitken points out - Polly Toynbee was BBC social affairs editor but imagine Melanie Phillips being given control over Woman's Hour.

Andrew

Being very interested in medievil history, I settled down to watch the first Bonekickers episode about the Templars.

To say I was disappointed would be an understatement.

Historical fact was wildly innacurate and the bias towards Muslims was almost laughable (I say "almost" as I am painfully aware that many people would have actually believed this tripe). I lost count of the number of times I heard the phrase "slaughtering Muslims".

Once the sinister looking Christian fundamentalist appeared I had had enough. I could stomach no more and switched over.

It was so obviously politically inspired and the historical content so reinvented as to put Trevor Phillips' rewritten Spanish Armada story to shame.

It seems we can no longer rely on the BBC to provide fact based programming.

anglicus

THX1138, I second that.

Indigena Cofe

Bonekickers, beheading scene, BBC One, 08 July 2006
Publication date: 10 Jul 2008
Complaint
We've received some complaints from viewers who felt the scene featuring a beheading in Bonekickers on BBC One, Tuesday 8th July 2008 was inappropriate viewing.
The BBC's Response
We regret that some viewers felt the beheading scene was inappropriate. It appeared half way through episode one of Bonekickers, by which time the character's extreme fundamental belief' had been revealed, providing the audience with a good build up to the scene in question.
This storyline looked at religious fundamentalism within a fictional Christian group, and one character in particular who took his beliefs to an extreme. His ignorance and misguided behaviour lead to the beheading of a peaceful Asian Muslim character in the drama. His actions are clearly condemned by leading Muslim and Christian clerics. The drama also has the balance of a Christian character that has a deep faith which she uses humbly and only for good.
The killing and the method used reflected the flawed beliefs that the character had. It does not attempt to condone or glamorise such a violent act in any way. The drama seeks to highlight the consequences of a misguided fundamentalist taking his beliefs to violent extremes.
The inclusion of the scene had been carefully considered and was very much central to the story line and reflected the character's extreme fundamental beliefs and state of mind.

My reply to that: Yes they did balance the beheading scene with a truly Christian character, who found she could heal people after she got a splinter in her hand from the ‘true cross’ found at the dig, but the hypocrisy of the fundamentalist White Alliance Christians, who’s leader burns at the end, is all that you remember. I doubt if anyone would take any of it seriously but I still want my license fee back.

(Indigenous Anglican)

roGER

I always find Mel's hatred of the BBC puzzling, since she seems perfectly happy to accept apperance fees for "The Moral Maze" and the occasional "Question Time."

If the BBC is so biased, why does Mel keep getting invitations to appear in it's programs?

Gavin

Melanie -too right! And there's that terrible programme on Radio 4 - the one where extreme right wingers bully their victims in a sad attempt at acting out their Excoriating Barrister fantasies. Oh, what's it called now?I'm getting something beginning with M and M.

D Gray

Did my usual....phoned to complain about the crass stupidity of the BBCs' attitude to Christianity this time with the revolting 'Christian Kickers' ooops...sorry 'Bonekickers' show.Was told by a completely disinterested BBC type that my 'comment' would be passed on.Hopefully the other 137 complaints about this crap will be passed on as well.Not that it will make any difference as the BBC doesn't listen to anyone.Its far to busy with its own rediculous agenda....Christians beheading muslims....yeah that happens all the time.

Dan

Thanks, THX1138, your superior reasoning has convinced me of my folly, and I shall be abandoning my beliefs forthwith. Hopefully my fellow misguided individuals will follow my example, and greed, rape and murder will cease throughout the world. Then you can get back to doing whatever it is we were spoiling for you.

DB

I'm more than a little puzzled why a comment I posted here at around 9am hasn't passed the Speccie censors. Instead of agreeing with Melanie perhaps I should've gone on a leftie rant about the Moral Maze.

Sean

This is why I got rid of my TV 2 years ago. YouTube and LoveFilm keep my eyes entertained, and not giving money to the thoroughly evil BBC makes me sleep better at night...

john doe

Marwan 8.35: Spot on! They really are indeed a bunch of worthless parasites inducing collective brain death on the population.

sean

"I always find Mel's hatred of the BBC puzzling, since she seems perfectly happy to accept apperance fees for "The Moral Maze" and the occasional "Question Time."

If the BBC is so biased, why does Mel keep getting invitations to appear in it's programs?"

Roger, if people with opinions like Melanie made up 50% of the talking heads on the beeb, you would be right. But Melanie is one of the few the token righties they'll have.

And as to why she takes 'their', sorry your, cash I'd imagine it's so she can inject at least a tiny bit of balance into the proceedings. She's brave, the last time I went to a chattering-class dinner party full of drab Al-Gu'ardian sorts I felt so sullied I had to scrub myself with sandpaper

Colin Holland

Now that Nu Labor are showing increasing examples of their ineptitude and lack of competency Brown's Bolshevik Corporation, especially Radio 4 has upped the ante and become offensively biased toward them and makes their "new" trustees ridiculously naive.
So far my retreat to Radio 3 has not been so evident. PS I threw my TV out over 3 years ago.

skydog

Odd ... I haven't noticed (assuming the BBC hasn't censored the 9 'o clock news) hordes of Christian Fundamentalist loons out on the streets calling for the 'Head' of the BBC over this 'outrage.' Can I ask any Londoners out there if they have noticed the family MUV going up in smoke in the aftermath of this broadcasting 'blasphemy?

John de Finchley

"Christians evangelical or not, Jews, Muslim, Buddhists, Hindus they all deserve ridiculing the more better."

@ THX1138 - Unfortunately, I think you'll find that the only faiths the BBC routinely rubbishes are the Christians and the Jews.

THX1138

Dan-Great news that such a short post persuaded you. Doesn't it feel great to have thrown off the shackles of superstition, inherited religion & dogma & joined the enlightened rational folk?

Lets hope that billions will follow our example I'm not sure that greed, rape and murder will cease but at least people will stop killing each other for worshipping a different set of man made beliefs & non existent gods that should make a big dent in the number of people who meet an untimely end don't you think?

Neil Saunders

None of this is news to me. I stopped watching (or listening to) the BBC some time ago because of its atrocious bias on every social or political question of substance, on which it unfailingly took the wrong side.

Occasionally I find myself visiting somebody who still watches the BBC (or at least has the TV tuned to it), and I receive every time a kind of visceral shock at its sheer awfulness.

All of its programming is contaminated, from its children's programmes (e.g. Balamory) through its dramas to its news and documentaries.

A particularly egregious example is the daytime medical soap, Doctors. This programme (quite apart from having an immensely sympathetic regular gay character) seemed in almost every episode (in the days when I still had the stomach to watch it) to have a gay-themed storyline, in which it was invariably "bigotry" on the part of heterosexuals which was condemned. While pursuing this theme as an idee fixe the programme went on to develop a parallel obsession with surrogate motherhood, invariably portraying this as a wholly benign phenomenon. For all I know it has since shown Muslims as the perennial victims of endemic Christian hatred and violence.

Byron in Wahroonga

***but at least people will stop killing each other for worshipping a different set of man made beliefs***

He! Yeah, THX.

Atheists are always such peace-loving people.

Joe Strummer

Undoubtedly,the BBC shapes and influences the political mind-set of many people in this country with its documentaries and dramas.

Unfortunately though, serious political and social issues are often depicted in a one-sided and simplistic manner to create a good guy/ bad guy scenario for easier consumption, especially concerning three specific situations ; Israel, the USA, and Northern Ireland.

The BBC drama Bonekickers storyline, as a classic example, which included the beheading of a Muslim by Christian fundamentalists )how often does that happen in reality ? ) was ludicrous but sadly untypical of the BBC and its left-wing PC obsessions.

The following Sunday evening 13 July 2008, the new BBC 1 police-based drama George Gently starring Martin Shaw, had a plotline based around IRA terrorism where we also witnessed the bizarre sight of the main " good guys" characters of this drama, a high-ranking British policeman, Inspector George Gently, and his dutiful sidekick DS Bacchus, not only condoning and empathising with the IRA terrorist in their midst, even to the point of repeatedly referring to him by his first name and his legitimate "reasons" for taking up the gun and bomb, ( cue the Orwellian textbook BBC speech of Ulster Protestants bad / Ulster Catholics good )but also having a sneaking admiration for the terrorist for doing so.

It is truly disturbing the unconscious manner in which the BBC gets away with this biased output and the slanted revision of history to suit its own political mantra.

michael

No criticism of the BBC for anything means anything from you, because you have cried Wolf too often.

You find fault at every turn, whenever any correspondent or web editor dares to feature a Palestinian death or outline the path of their wretched lives.

You have reached such a low level of debate in your anger at the BBC, whose shilling you continue to take despite your ire, that even if they were bias, which they are plainly not, it would take someone with a more balanced point of view to point it out than you.

patricia

Too right.

What is the word you use? Obscene? If the BBC is that obscene, go broadcast on Sky instead.

The BBC is Objective, and THAT is what you find obscene.

You find fault with it solely because it does not tow your warmongering line.

But it gives you, Mark Regev and every other propagandist for the Israeli right the airtime with which to argue your cause.

Which many people find truly obscene, but do not condemn, because at least it is balanced.

David Preiser

THX1138,

Your words - and the BBC's - ring very hollow. Go post your comment in forums populated by those who actually do kill for religion, rather than dropping pointless stink bombs amongst those who do think it's wrong to kill for religion.

Bet you won't.

Janet

Melanie Phillips is occasionally on the BBC, so that means it isn't broadly speaking unfairly biased. Do me a favour.

Melanie Phillips appears on obscure corners of the BBC, not regular primetime slots, quite unlike "Spooks" and "Bonekickers".

How on earth BBC News can carry real stories about Muslims beheading non-Muslims – but never vice versa, because it doesn't happen – and then the BBC drama dept finds the gall to pen a drama in which a non-Muslim beheads Muslim shows how warped the agenda is.

To do this sort of thing once would be bad enough but in the light of the Spooks' storyline of the Jews who come to London dressed as Muslims to blow up the British shows how ingrained it is.

How many people would be expected to sign off storylines like those? Heaps. And who said: "Hang on, chum, this a complete inversion of reality, what the heck are you playing at?" No one. And they wonder why so many of us want the licence fee poll tax binned.

It's not as if Ms Phillips is alone. Ex-employees have written extensively on the extraordinary levels of unfair bias at the BBC. Robin Aitken has produced a whole book called "Can We Trust the BBC?" and ex-employee Jeff Randall has written extensively in the Telegraph on what goes on in that place.

And why does the BBC website seem to prevent people pasting links to sites like this?

Alan O'Reilly

Re: THX1138 and "God doesn't exist you are wasting your time,"

Back in the 17th century an atheist said the same thing to a street preacher of the day.

The preacher answered, "We read in the first verse of the fourteenth Psalm that the fool hath said in his heart, there is no God. Methink thou art a greater fool. Thou proclaimest it out loud!"

You went one better, THX. You put it on the web.

Re: the BBC. Apart from the occasional ep. of Look North for the NE and Cumbria, Shaun the Sheep and New Tricks, it hasn't got much to offer these days on a regular basis.

Adam B.

The fact that Patricia, an unthinking signed up anti-Israel, anti-American extremist thinks the BBC is impartial says it all.

patricia

Adam B.

Nobody taking the time to waste time on this site is unthinking.

Quite the reverse.

Neocons and Likudniks gave us the last Middle Eastern War. And now they are advocating for a new one.

It takes a special type of unthinking not to worry about the their influence on our politicians and in our media.

And as for "anti Israel and anti America" - you reduce yourself to truly banal simplicities.

More precisely Anti Neocons - like some 70% of Americans. And anti hard right Israelis who do Jews across the world the greatest of disservices.

DB

The Guardian's list of 100 most powerful media people published yesterday recognised the influence of the BBC's controller of fiction Jane Tranter; she was number 10 whereas the director of BBC News Helen Boaden was only 23. Apart from Spooks and Bonekickers, Tranter has given us dramas such as White Girl in which Islam was portrayed as the salvation for working class white women, and the soon to be screened Burn Up, a piece of climate change propaganda which even the Guardian's Jonathan Freedland, appearing on Newsnight Review, described as "the most ostentatiously, extravagantly anti-American piece of TV you'll ever see". And don't get me started on the box-ticking PC-casting which typifies Tranter commissions, from the female Muslim sidekick in Robin Hood (itself a vehicle for much leftist propaganda) to a black Guinevere in the upcoming Merlin series. Within BBC drama circles I bet success is measured in terms of how much a programme aggravates those on the political right. Melanie is correct - it's time this blatant, tax-funded activism was challenged.

Hysteria

re the growing atheism thread -(Thanks to THX for starting that one)

Read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. It probably won't convince the die-hards, but for many it might crystalise their thoughts and allow more people to openly challenge the status quo and call religion what it is - superstitious claptrap that has got the world into a whole heap of trouble - and continues so to do.

Read it !!!

Neil Saunders

I don't want to divert the subject matter of this thread too much, but I too am an atheist (from an Anglo-Saxon, C of E background).

That said, I have to say that I'm rather less impressed than "Hysteria" by Richard Dawkins, whom I find hectoring and shrill.

My favourite statement of atheism occurs in John Searle's superb summary of his own philosophy, Mind, Language and Society (Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 1999). Unlike Dawkins, Searle expresses himself with great subtlety and moderation.

Talia

Patricia is a DELIGHT. What would we do without her?

Alan O'Reilly

I agree this is a separate topic. However:

The Founder of Christian belief has had 500+ serious pieces of music dedicated to Him and/or written about Him, including Handel's Messiah, arguably one of the greatest pieces of music ever composed.

If any other religious leader or any atheistic/evolutionary writer tops that, I would take him seriously, not before.

Moreover, the Lord Jesus Christ said, John 7:37b, "If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink."

And nobody laughed.

If any other religious leader said that, or any politician, journalist, scientist, sovereign, philosopher or atheistic/evolutionary writer said that, we'd split our sides, regardless of individual belief system. You know it and I know it.

The implications of the above bear reflection.

I would note that bible believers (KJB1611) are not 'die-hards,' they are 'never dies,' according to the Lord Jesus Christ, John 11:26.

Come and join us. For now, you've nothing to fear but ridicule.

phil

Michael""You have reached such a low level of debate in your anger at the BBC, whose shilling you continue to take despite your ire, that even if they were bias, which they are plainly not, it would take someone with a more balanced point of view to point it out than you.""

You for instance ?or maybe patricia just back from the moon ? we could try a gig from george galloway too .Mel can you arrange that?

Ann

"Neocons and Likudniks gave us the last Middle Eastern War"

Dumb antisemitic manure.

Huzzah the Horse

People often mock God and say "where is he? I can't see him, where can I find him?" and then reasonably conclude that there is no God, and that God is no more than an idea, a rogue "computer virus" of the cognition.

Here is my answer,

God is rather like the hole at the centre of a wheel, and though there is nothing there and the hole is utterly empty, it is nevertheless the empty hole that makes the wheel useful. That "emptiness" is what gives the wheel its form and function.

So it is with God.

Ann

"that even if they were bias, which they are plainly not"

Forgotten your medication again?

Ann

"The Founder of Christian belief has had 500+ serious pieces of music dedicated to Him and/or written about Him"

Proves exactly nothing about the truth or otherwise of Christianity.

"including Handel's Messiah, arguably one of the greatest pieces of music ever composed"

You can argue whatever you like, even that Bjork is the greatest songwriter who ever lived. Again, that proves ***-all.

I happen to love Handel, as it happens, but I don't count the Messiah among his greatest works (I think Giulio Cesare is vastly superior). So what's that got to do with the matter at hand?

phil

Just to get back to reality post Michael --I love the BBC for sports ,nature programmes .documentaries .but sadly not when I am seeking the truth.The lefties have ruined it from the days when I believed every word that was put out -It says it all for me that when something of importance is in the news I turn to Sky News -They should read this with shame ,those who have stolen our heritage

phil

Ann, Michael cant take his medication ,his mouth is full of ....
Can I ask you to put the persons name attached to the quote as it is hard to find. who said it

Neil Saunders

The undeniable existence of great art inspired by religion in no way proves the truth of religion.

I wouldn't wish the great churches and cathedrals unbuilt, the King James Bible and the Book of Common Prayer unwritten or Handel's Messiah or Bach's Passions and Cantatas uncomposed.

Atheism doesn't need to imply philistinism!

Adam B.

Patricia,

Even in your reply, you betray yourself. I'm sure you're really concerned about Jews across the world. Notable by their absence in those you blame for the ills of the Middle East are Hamas and Hizbollah. These peace loving groups advocate the extermination of the Jews worldwide. No problem with them! No, it's those Jews who vote for the Likud party in the Middle East's only free and fair elections you've got to watch out for. Your blindness to the true nature of these groups, as well as the racist, misogynistic, bigoted tyranny of Iran betrays your kneejerk anti-Israel and anti-American soul. And it's people like you who think the BBC's great. That DOES say it all.

THX1138

Alan O'Reilly-so we determine whether god exists based on the number of pieces of written to praise him shall we & please can you explain how that makes a blind of difference? Really I'm trying but I'm not getting anywhere, just because you say something a lot doesn't make it right

Those poor deluded soles who believe in god really do scrape the bottom of the logical barrel Huzzah The horse & his empty holes what's all that about. I don't mock god how can one mock the non existent I just mock those sad deluded fools who believe he does exist.

Just because you want to believe something & it gives you comfort does make it real none of you can prove that god exists all you can say it that you want to believe that god exists not really the same thing is it.

Hysteria I was only just having a go at you over on the coffee house & I'm about to have ago at Ann on Pollards blog & now we are on the same side what a great blog this is, BTW The Hitchens book God is not Great is much more fun, he really sticks to them in the way only a Hitchen's can.

Who cares if we are off the subject it was boring anyway this much more fun.

Groovey Times

Patricia, you are obsessed. What's Mark Regev got to do with anything? Articulate Jews who can argue Israel's case are an anathema to your liberal sensibilities are they, and should be banned from Blighty's otherwise green and pleasant airwaves? You also show your ignorance and bias by equating Israel's centrist Kadima co-alition with those pesky right-wing war-mongering Likudniks - these tried and tested cliches are bound to get you enthusiastic nods of approval at dinner parties yah! You can say a lot of things about Olmert, but that aint one of em.

phil

From time to time Patricia alights from her broomstick to adorn Mels threads, and caring decent posters not aware of the woman's malevolent mindset attempt to admonish her -May I say without patronising any of you that you waste your time and energy -she is beyond redemption and frankly not worth the effort -Amuse yourselves if you will but do not be disappointed as she will not change .Adam you are worth a million of this woman just ignore her .,hopefully she will fly off with Michael .,on a broomstick biofuel extravaganza

john doe

For those of you wasting your time even trying to reason with 'patricia'....she or he is playing a juvenile game of devil's advocate and obviously gets cheap thrills out of rubbing more serious, sensitive and intelligent souls up the wrong way. It's a pathetic game. So my advice is ignore her/him/it and it/him/her will burn out through lack of attention. I assume her comments are passed by the moderator to give the threads here some 'balance' and dynamism, but the end result is a futile, battle with crude racism, gratuitousness and unreason.

Dan

THX1138, looks like I may have to recant my new set of beliefs (or is it more proper to say unbeliefs?) Now I know I still have to go around proselytizing or, at the very least, become someone who "sticks it to them", I no longer feel a part of a more enlightened and rational bunch.

Martin

I find the trend to disguise propaganda and social engineering as fiction utterly depressing. Last year Radio 4 did a series of plays about asylum seekers. If it had been just one play that happened to be about the subject that would have been fine, but to have a whole series made it quite clear that the agenda wasn't creative drama but political brainwashing.

No surprise there really. Rod Liddle recently mentioned that when he was editor of Today he was constantly pressed by the "diversity czar" to include more stories showing Africa in a positive light. And as for the Archers, Ambridge must be the most "diverse" village in England.

I hope these highly paid BBC executives don't think they are fooling anyone. As propaganda it's all too obvious.

Adam Marlborough

Regarding the BBC,I voted with my feet and got rid of the telly, and instead got my viewing fix from the internet, and by renting films and television series from the library dvd collection. Why support BBC propaganda by paying the license fee?
Also if anyones knows of a campaign to get the fee abolished, or is interested in starting one please let me know.

W. Smith

"The BBC is Objective, and THAT is what you find obscene."

Oh, Pat! It's the way you tell 'em! Priceless! Thanks for making my day!

I think DB summed the BBC up best --- "blatant, tax-funded activism". Sadly, no matter how blatant the activism, nobody is going to fix it.

And to THC666 or whatever your daft handle is --- Jesus loves you despite your mud-slinging. Repent, you godless heathen, and accept Him as your Lord and saviour!

Liz

Since I'd lived in Eastern Europe until the mid 70s I can easily recognize dramas such as this (as well as other output of a similar nature)as nothing more than shameless propaganda and an attempt at brainwashing. The only difference was that the indoctrination was the government policy. Me and my friends however had no difficulty in identifying the propaganda for what it was and were utterly contemptuous towards it.

logdon

As if on cue Descartes strikes again!

dave smith

The BBC is remarkably similiar to a totalitarian regime in it's death throes. Ruled over by a very highly paid and privileged elite that desperately wants to be loved and respected but knowing that those days are over.
Purposeless and drifting it's dominance threatened and all but destroyed by technological advances and growing public resentment at the onerous forced taxation that keeps it in being.
It has a limited future but like all those regimes is growing more extreme before it implodes.
Once reform seemed possible now only it's destruction is likely.
Melanie you give it a spurious air of respectability by appearing on it and should cease to do so.
It's day is done although sadly I doubt whether any politician has the courage to put it out of it's misery. What a sad way for it all to end.

THX1138

Dan- Shame you lost the way, the path of rational enlightenment can be challenging for the believer, don't feel bad many fail at the first attempt all that childhood indoctrination can be hard to fight. It was good to have you along for awhile anyway & good luck next time your always welcome back.

Remember with us you can eat & drink what you like; read what you like; marry anyone you like; be gay if you like; you don't have to have the end of your penis cut off & most importantly of all you can THINK what you like apart from god existing obliviously cause then you be back where you started in la la land with all the other poor deluded souls

Adam B.

Thanks phil and john doe, you are right in that dear old pat is beyond any sensible discussion. However, in my experience, when one leaves lies and distortions unanswered, they are eventually believed. I write as a rebuttal to these lies, so that people who read the blogs, and who may not know much about the Middle East, at least see that there is another viewpoint!

Dan

THX1138, thanks for the words of encouragement. I’m very fortunate: I’m already allowed to eat and drink what I like, read what I like, marry who I like, be gay if I like (including if it’s not my choice, I’m just born that way), no one wants to cut off anything of mine and I’m free to think for myself about whether there is a god or not; I much prefer being free to believe something because I’ve thought about it, rather than just going along with someone who insists I believe as they do on threat of name-calling. Or worse.

Byron in Wahroonga

***call religion what it is - superstitious claptrap that has got the world into a whole heap of trouble***

Always fascinated, by the way militant Western atheists refuse to acknowledge the incalculable benefits Christianity has given their country. If a Christian based culture is so repulsive to you, why not move to an atheistic country? I hear the swallows return to Pyongyang, this time of year.

Byron in Wahroonga

***I happen to love Handel, as it happens, but I don't count the Messiah among his greatest works (I think Giulio Cesare is vastly superior). So what's that got to do with the matter at hand?***

Oh, lots.

To post such a theatrically pretentious comment speaks volumes about your general mindset, Ann. You're not one of those Internet atheists who takes Christmas Day off, are you? I find non-belief riddled with hypocrisy.

Neil Saunders

I think that Dave Smith is right when he says that the BBC is an institution in a state of terminal decline.

However, I think that this decline is a symptom of a much wider phenomenon, which affects our political classes as well.

This is political correctness, a kind of intellectual virus which has fatally weakened every institution it has infected. (If Dawkins were more honest, he would recognise it as a "meme", or system of inter-related memes.)

(Incidentally, it is political correctness, and the social policies that flow from it, that Muslims have correctly identified when they speak or write of Western "decadence". Ironically, those same Muslims have been the beneficiaries of the very decadence they rightly despise, and may indeed owe the ultimate victory of their value system to its brief, misguided existence.)

Personally, I think it a great shame that a once-great public broadcasting corporation should have been so infected by this intellectual virus that its continued existence is so bitterly resented (and therefore compromised) by the very people it originally served. After all, there a good and compelling reasons for wanting a broadcaster whose output is (theoretically, at any rate) uncontaminated by commercial pressures and the whims of advertisers.

As with the BBC, some time in the next five to ten years I see the whole of our present party-political system collapsing in the face of the forces unleashed by the social experiment of political correctness (and the understanding of and reaction to them that the Internet has made possible).

anglicus

Hi THX1138 way to go, you want to see this;
http://youtube.com/watch?v=G5JtxrR6msg

Byron in Wahroonga

***Remember with us you can eat & drink what you like; read what you like; marry anyone you like; be gay if you like***

I thought so. Self worship.

Not a religion I could endorse but it sounds perfectly suited to you, THX.

Byron in Wahroonga

***The BBC is Objective, and THAT is what you find obscene***

Thanks, Pat! We all need a good laugh, at this point. Your brutal sarcasm particularly timely.

mmmm

Oooh, that make me so annyyed!! Waht a farce.

Water

"PS I threw my TV out over 3 years ago" I don't blame you.

Ann

Happilly, Phil, if you tell me which quote it was - I quoted several people.

Apologies for some dreadful syntax last night; I had been up since the crack of dawn.

Ann

For Alan to quote from the Bible as 'proof' that THX is wrong is beyond parody. And he probably will never realise it, either ...

THX is quite right. Religion has been responsible for millions of murders.

Now I am waiting for the usual religious maniac types to shriek that Stalin, Hitler and Mao were typical rational atheists, ergo atheists have killed more people ... LOL.

Ann

"Oh, lots"

Followed by exactly nil elaboration and a lot of empty posturing.

And he calls ME pretentious. ROFL.

Ann

Neil:
"I wouldn't wish ... the King James Bible ... unwritten"

You do realise, don't you, that this is only a translation of the original Bible, right?

Branston

Lack of ethics says it all. But what else might one expect froom the Hay-on-Wye crowd? Sandal wearers and muesli eaters the lot of them - sorry, that was their parents!

Ann

"If a Christian based culture is so repulsive to you, why not move to an atheistic country?"

This disgusting statement on its own sums up the oppressive religious mindset perfectly. Because this is my country just as much as it is yours, you unmitigated little prat.

Andrew Ian Dodge

This episode is all about how racist Americans (Republicans explicitly are called racists) are and all about a black man running for the Democratic nomination ("Powerful people don't want a black President.") There is the hint of slavery naturally as the excuse for this polemic. They seem to forget than under a Republican President there were black people in the White House like Condi Rice and Colin Powell. But who cares about the fact when you can launch on a nasty polemic against Republicans and all Americans (including the Founding Fathers naturally) in general.

Louise

When, in the fullness of time, the eulogies to the Iron Lady appear, let us not forget that she had the opportunity of privatising the BBC - but didn't. Anyone who has ever sent a complaint to the BBC about its anti-Israel, anti-western agenda will know how arrogant and contemptuous and dismissive it is. Nothing will change so long as complaints are dealt with in-house and not by a truly independent tribunal. But the most effective remedy would be for the next Conservative government to do what Maggie didn't. Let the BBC pay for its own evil prejudice.

Hereford

Update. I have decided to take action on this issue. I am going to sell or dump my tv's and only access BBC content through iplayer. That way they get no licence fee from me. ITV programmes can also be accessed on line. I recommend that as many people as possible take the same action. We have to deprive this biased institution of the funding to prosecute its damaging political agenda.

THX1138

anglicus- That was funny have a look this.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UY-ZrwFwLQg

David

Melanie might like to know that real liberals reckon this is doing more damage to their cause than anything. They think it's preposterous.

THX1138

Dan-I'm glad that your religion gives you so much freedom to do what you like & doesn't mess about with your body parts unfortunately many religions are not so tolerant & seem very keen to regulate what you eat; who you marry; your sexual orientation; what you think & particularly eager to hack away at male & female genitalia, what is it with religion & sex?

You do what you like, I have enjoyed are little to & fro hope you have too & as Dave Allen would have said "may your god go with you"

Neil Saunders

Yes, Ann, I do realise that the King James Bible is only a translation. However, since I never learnt Hebrew or Koine I am unable to read it in the original. Are you? (With my rusty Latin I might struggle through the Vulgate with a crib, but that too is a mere translation.)

However, although "only" a translation, the King James Version is, along with the works of Shakespeare, one of the centrepieces of English literature. It has influenced our literature and culture in a way that rival English translations (e.g. the Happy-Clappy Tesco Economy Bible Rendered Faithfully From The Original Tongues Into Semi-Articulate Estuary English) haven't.

Byron in Wahroonga

***now I am waiting for the usual religious maniac types to shriek that Stalin, Hitler and Mao were typical rational atheists***

Yes, they were.

But Ann, we'll leave the shrieking, LOLing, and ROFLing to you, okay?

You seem to have those theatrics down pat.

Byron in Wahroonga

***because this is my country just as much as it is yours***

I don't think so, Ann. I admire, even romanticize Britain. You seem to hate the place, and most of the people in it. Wouldn't you be a lot happier once amongst others, who feel the way you do? You'd be the toast of Harare, for instance.

Byron in Wahroonga

***your sexual orientation; what you think & particularly eager to hack away at male & female genitalia, what is it with religion & sex?***

You tell us, THX.

A glance up this thread shows you're the one constantly making that connection.

Richard James

Quite right. I used to like to think of the BBC as balanced but its pro-Sharia anti-Western and anti-Catholic bias is rampant. Still as long as Jonathan Ross can cash his millions of public money I suppose it's alright..

stanley Jerusalem

Why do all and sundry blame religion for the world's wars and atrocities. It really isn't God's fault - I thought it was Man wot dun it.
Religion has always been used as a propaganda tool for Social Engineering when it suited the devices of those anxious to wage war.
Even the bishops of the glorious Church of England doctored the translation of the King James Bible' that glorious piece of prose, so that 'The Common Man' should not have to work out why, for instance, a shepherd boy in the story of Gideon [ Judges VIII, 14] was capable of WRITING DOWN the names of the leaders of a nearby city about to be seized by the Israelites in their first conquest of the Holy Land.
The Church Fathers changed the Hebrew original from
'wrote down' to 'described'.
Ugh!

stanley Jerusalem

While we are on the subject [ well all right, I am] it was the unexpected financial success of an ambitious East Anglian Norman bishop who invented the tale of 'Little St.Hugh' as his Abbey's attempt to lure Easter pilgrims away from neighbouring churches at a time in history when the Wool Towns of East Anglia were the wealthiest in Europe, that an insecure English Monarch persuaded the pope to send our bright little cleric to Eastern Europe to 'Convert the Pagan'.
He was so successful that the 'Blood Libel' of Jews killing christian children to make Unleavened bread for the Passover persists to this day.
How's that for Social Engineering 900 years before the Beeb?

phil

Ann _always --I do read what you say if not always agreeing but I never know who you are referring to when you include their quote ,so my suggestion is name first and then the quote

Byron in Wahroonga

***was capable of WRITING DOWN the names***

Woah! Those caps mean it's REALLY IMPORTANT to you, Stan? We're hosting World Youth Day here in Sydney this week and the town's full of happy worshipping young Christians. Our militant atheists and assorted pathological whiners have withdrawn from the scene, in despair. There's not a Dan Brown novel to be seen. The mind boggles as to how you, Ann and THX would handle the next few days in this town. My guess is you'd all vaporlock, from internalised rage.

stanley Jerusalem

Byron in Wahroonga
July 16th, 2008 2:44pm

***was capable of WRITING DOWN the names***

Perhaps you are suggesting that the original was tampered with too.
What's wrong with a nice honest religion? [ that'll bring 'em out of the woodwork!]
Your image of "happy worshipping young Christians" seems to be suugesting that where ignorance is bliss it's folly to be wise"
I don't believe that you meant that, so what are you on about?
I'm just having a go at the 'messengers' not the message.

stanley Jerusalem

Byron;
PS Dan Brown is fiction and meant to be fun
IT'S NOT A TEXTBOOK SUNSHINE!

anglicus

THX1138 - great. The trouble with YouTube is that I get hooked and watch it for hours after the first one, what a sad life.
What I find strange about christianity is that there are no actual records, not even by the Romans of the events that are supposed to have taken place. Everything was written about 300 years after the event. Events like the virgin birth and the a man rising from the grave three days after his death were all known before jesus christ, the stories were all re-worked. You won’t convince me otherwise, but feel free to do what you gotta do.

Ann

"You seem to hate the place, and most of the people in it"

What utter drivel, Byron. I love this country and most of the people in it, and I hate this present government, and I won't ask your permission to do so. Nor will you tell me to leave this country, you sad little man, which is my country, so do find yourself a nice short pier for a long walk. Your comment about Harare is further indication of the festering impertinence that is your mind.

Ann

Byron thinks that Stalin, Mao and Hitler were normal, rational people. We need no further proof of his state of mind.

Ann

Neil, that was a factual comment, and not a criticism.

I don't read Latin or Greek (a few words in both languages, more Latin than Greek I suppose), and really struggle with Aramaic; but I do read Hebrew. For what it's worth, I agree with you that the KJ is wonderfully and poetically written; so is the Hebrew OT (I don't believe in any of the religion, but of course the history in the OT has been largely demonstrated by archaeologists to be true, with many gaps still remaining where we don't know yet one way or t'other). It's difficult to say which is 'more beautiful', if it's even meaningful to compare. There are many serious translation mistakes in the KJ, e.g. 'Thou shalt not kill' which is not what the Hebrew says, plus a great many others.
What you say about the Bible's influence is also historically true, sure.

THX1138

Stanley in Jerusalem -Hi hope the weather is nice it's horrid in London my friend JoJo is in Jerusalem at the moment he say's your city has the best food in the world & just loves it over there.

We haven't spared but I thought I would take you up on your point, hope you don't mind?

I agree "it's man wot dun it" but he has done via his creation religion it can't be gods fault as god patently obviously doesn't exist.

Ian G

Why has my previous post, which was on topic, not been posted and several off-topic and somewhat heated posts have been allowed?

stanley Jerusalem

THX1138
July 16th, 2008 5:38pm

Logic really isn't your strong suit, is it?
Oh and yes, the weather's lovely here.
Very nice for burying our soldiers, thank you.

THX1138

stanley Jerusalem- or politeness yours. as for burying soldiers as the Jewish boy Bob Dyalan said "And accept it all bravely
With God on my side"

stanley Jerusalem

One might have thought on such an occasion... but sadly no.
Oh well.

Ann

THX's logic is much better than SJ's, if the latter thinks (as he still seems to do) that you can prove god's existence from a book that takes this existence for granted and ex hypothesi.

THX1138

stanley- your right my post was rubbish & I was petulant I'm sorry.

Ann

Phil: sorry, quite right, I'll try to do better!

Byron: not rage, no, merely laughing at the folly of mankind who after all these thousands of years still worships bits of wood (and I include the pope among those bits). Certainly laughing at yours.

THX1138

Stanley Now I feel terrible I wondered what you were on about "Very nice for burying our soldiers, thank you" & then your last comment so I checked the BBC & read about the exchange

My comment was crass In the extreme in the circumstances I'm very sorry my only defence was that I had no idea. Bury them well.

THX1138

Byron - Anyone who follows my posts on this blog knows that I normally take a dissenting view & come in for a bit of abuse & name calling usually starting "Mr Number plate" I take all in good humour why not it's only a blog & I very rarely give any back otherwise It would never stop & the debates which I relish would be rubbish.

In your case I'm going to make an exception your an odious little creep & typically of those religious nutters that I so so despise with your snide remarks & lack of argument how dare you tell me where I should live & what I'm thinking do you know what you are your boring & I can think of know worse insult. Why don't you just go away.

Danny

I totally agree with melannie. Roger asks why should Melannie appear on Question Time if the BBC is so biased. He seems to be answering his own question. It is essential that an articulate alternative view should get air time. I have long been appaled at the biassed nature of Q.T. I am feel that the audience has been hand picked. The pro Muslim, pro Palestinian, anti American, anti Israel comments are not representative of the general population.

logdon

Please click the button only once - your comment will not be published immediately.......

or more probably not at all. That is unless you happen to belong to the ones who indulge in off thread tit for tat twaddle

phil

thank you Ann

Dave

Perhaps with Bonekickers the BBC is aiming for "so bad it's actually entertaining"?
You know, like Mel's blog.

Andy Gill

That episode of Bonekickers spectacularly misfired. Its patent moralising message (Muslims good and peaceful, Christians bad and violent) was appallingly unsubtle. Anyone over the age of 11 could see how the BBC was trying to manipulate the audience. The dialog was so wooden and the plot so contrived it was laughable.

On the bright side, I think Bonekickers could become the next big sitcom.

Ann

Phil, I have just posted a reply to your query about Siddiqui. If this one doesn't answer, then I give up.

Ann

Dave evidently comes here so often in order to enjoy the badness he complains of. I suppose the world does need masochists.

Dave

Oh Ann. You miss the point again. So bad it's good! D'you see? It really cheers me up. And honestly you're just the comedic cherry on the cake x

phil

Ann --you have lost me here "Phil, I have just posted a reply to your query about Siddiqui. If this one doesn't answer, then I give up."

I dont remember asking about a man called siddique who is he ? or do we have another imposter posting in your name ?

Adam B.

To bring the topic back to the BBC, this public body has described the child killer Kuntar as a "guerrilla". (Kuntar broke into an Israeli family's house, forced a 4 year old girl to watch him murder her father, proceeded to smash the child's skull and then killed a policeman investigating the break in. The mother hid in a cupboard and tried to stifle the cries of her two year old, but accidentally smothered her child). Is this a new definition of the word "guerrilla"?

Ann

Dave, who misses the point so often it's beyond parody, and let's not even start on his ignorance, tries to have a dig at me. Utterly priceless.

Byron in Wahroonga

***anyone who follows my posts on this blog***

He. 'Follows my posts.' You're the perfect atheist, THX. It's all about you. News bulletin: we're here to read Melanie's posts. Thanks for paying attention!

Byron in Wahroonga

***merely laughing at the folly of mankind who after all these thousands of years still worships bits of wood***

Uh huh. Ann, right. Mankind, wrong.

You and THX are walking proof that atheism is self worship, Ann. Just by the way, mankind will still be worshipping God when you two are long forgotten dust.

Ann

More silly, self-important, pompous screeching from Byron, who wouldn't recognise a substantive point if it bit him on his sitting arrangements.

Tim, Sydney

This article would have serious relevance if it contained the slightest hint of self control or objectivity. Of course Israeli masquerading as Palestinians to set off bombs in London is a laughable fiction (of course Spooks is fictional!) but Melanie might do well to remeber that Israeli funding was pumped into Hams in the 1980s and if we look a little further back Israeli terrorists were the perpetrators of a bomb killing British officers in Jerusalem's King David Hotel in 1948 (ironically the self-same British soldiers who had spent most of the past 10 years fighting the Nazis). So the Israeli/terrorist connection is not as distant as Melanie would have us believe.

Secondly, the intemperate language exhibited in this article; 'contaminated at the highest level', 'twisted political truth' or 'doing the work of the enemies of civilisation', merely serves to reduce the relevance of what is a valid point, that the BBC focuses overly on the Islamic and Palestinian side of the argument.

What is the point of attacking the BBC for bias and subjectivity if you only heap more into the debate? This article significantly undermines its own arguement by resorting to hyperbole and bias as a reaction to what the author sees as bias in the BBC. Frightening.

Ann

No, Phil, we seem to have two of you:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/816511/what-part-of-theocracy-does-this-man-not-understand.thtml#comments

Rev Li Mitre

"mankind will still be worshipping God when you two are long forgotten dust."

clerical error .....

Ann

Oh, for Pete's sake, yet more of the same ignorant drivel about the KDH, this time from down under. It wasn't a hotel, you muppet: it was a British MILITARY INSTALLATION, an intelligence HQ, part of the oppression machinery of a foreign invader against the indigenous population. Attacking this military installation was a perfectly legitimate action by said population. Furthermore, advance warning was given.

phil

ANN"No, Phil, we seem to have two of you:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/816511/what-part-of-theocracy-does-this-man-not-understand.thtml#comments"

sorry you were right I had forgotten as it was your quote and I did not remember his name .

john doe

"This article significantly undermines its own arguement by resorting to hyperbole and bias as a reaction to what the author sees as bias in the BBC. Frightening."

Absolutely terrifying. I'm shaking in my boots.Melanie is so scary.

Puh..leeze!

Verity

Byron in Wahroonga - "atheism is self-worship". That's an interesting observation.

It would certainly illuminate a dark corner of the fundamentalist atheist mind: Jealousy. They seem to believe that their existence is so important that they cannot tolerate the notion that anything outside is superior to their own acute, wondrous selves.

That's why the militant atheists come thundering out of the woodwork at any mention of a higher, more advanced intelligence than their own. Self-worship.

Otherwise, why would they care so much what other people believe? I've never known of a Buddhist who worked himself into a towering rage over the beliefs of the Jews. Or a Hindu who foamed at the mouth and got a throbbing vein in his forehead at the mention of Christianity.

(I don't refer to all atheists, many of whom - probably most of whom - are perfectly rational, tolerant people.) It's the knee-jerk fundamentalists who take noisy offence.

Very intersting, Byron in Wahroonga.

Ann

"Otherwise, why would they care so much what other people believe?"

Err, because the religious maniacs have murdered millions of people simply for refusing to worship the formers' gods, perhaps? And because this is happening again on an increasing scale across the globe, and beginning to make inroads into Britain (Rushdie v. Siddiqui, for example, and the subhuman 'honour' killings - I take it you have heard of them?).

The idea that atheists 'worship themselves' is dumb, and is simply part of the same campaign by religious maniacs to demonise atheists, who have simply concluded rationally that they cannot see evidence for a god. A perfect example is the equally dumb assertion 'Ann right, rest of humanity wrong', which seeks mendaciously to paint atheists as arrogant. There are a great many people who share my convictions, so to claim that I disagree with the rest of humanity is a lie.

Tim, Sydney

Oh well thats all right then. I had no idea it was only a British military installation and they even gave warning. Thanks Ann you have cleared that up for me. Here was I thinking that the wanton murder of British troops in the 'KDH' as you so glibly call its was a bit of a stain on Israeli history but you have set me straight. What a load of rubbish!

You might as well argue that Hizbollah kidnappings of Israeli soldiers and their subsequent deaths in captivity represent nothing more than legitimate military action, and doesn't Hamas represent a supposed 'indigenous population (whatever that means in Israel) as well? You sound like some 1970s PLO rhetoric manual; 'machinery of oppression', where do you learn this nonsense? Arguments like yours don't sound very different from those of current terrorist groups.

Tiberius

Mel's blog really does suffer from tit-for-tat squabbling more than any other. She must get fed up of it.

To all you atheists out there: your trouble is you're so certain about what comprises the human condition; yet it is so uncertain.

And humans would have fought over something else if not over religion. That is their nature.

Creationism: a belief to laugh at, perhaps? More so than thinking that one sunny day, a piece of rock opened its eyes and said, "I'm going to come to life today. Yippee"!?

So the Bible explains how life started. Pray tell how does Darwin or Dawkins solve the problem? Remember the answer must not make us laugh.

Adam B.

Moderator, why are you not posting my comment?

Agnes Day

Verity,

"self-worship"
Did God make Man in his own image or vice-versa?
Either way it is self-worship.
Also when not prone to self-worship why are so many religious types self-loathing?

"fundamentalist atheist"
pejorative use of religous term applied to the unreligious?
Very interesting. Does this illuminate some dark corner of the religious restricted mindset?

"militant atheist?"
Rather! Richard Dawkins would look so manly toting an AK47 and prancing around Trafalgar Square for the TV cameras.

"thundering out of the woodwork"
Now you've got me worried.
"The Lost Weekend" 1945, Ray Milland, Billy Wilder et al.
Do take a peek.

Sanctimonious Maximus

"Remember the answer must not make us laugh"

Now you're stealing the opposition's lines!

The Happy Carbon Footprint

Agnes Day - And your point? Whatever it is it seems a trifle obscure and self-regarding.

raymond joseph douglas

The BBC will not listen to melanie or the replies on this blog.Just like our so called listening government,they will carry on regardless,convinced of their own moral superority.Pah!Daily Mail readers,safe to ignore them eh?!

Tiberius

Sanct Max: Yes, sorry. Sarcasm is indeed the cheapest form of wit.

MG

It only gets better folks. U.S. television has not yet featured a beheading, but the Christian zealots (as if there were any other kind) and political indoctrination via dramatic programming is a regular occurrence.

I hear our Congress is trying to revive the so-called Fairness Doctrine, requiring opposing viewpoints be expressed--even on privately owned or viewer/listener supported stations. Somehow I doubt these rules will apply to Law & Order: SVU.

phil

tim from the outback does the tragedy of KDH have any relevance to this thread or is it just an opportunity to say something nasty ?-from the little you wrote its pretty obvious you have no idea of the history of the event what purpose was intended and why ,or the outcome for the perpetrators .-this subject was covered many threads ago so go away and reread it ,then come back and comment on the BBC which you may recall is what this thread is for

Ann

More ignorant drivel from Tim, who clearly has never been near the ME and knows exactly eff all about Israel's history. Bombing a military installation is not the same as kidnapping and murdering soldiers, you silly muppet. Have you even been within 10 miles of anything remotely military?
Why do you post your ignorant nonsense? You don't even know about the White Paper and other examples of Britain - which had no business ruling Israel in the first place - reneging on its clear obligations under the Mandate.

Ann

"To all you atheists out there: your trouble is you're so certain about what comprises the human condition; yet it is so uncertain"

Utterly beyond parody. It is the religionists who dictate to us atheists that god IS made up of three parts, with 100% certainty (and used to murder people who disputed this), or otherwise IS made of one part, in some other religion; that you must fast on day X because it says so in some book, and therefore it MUST be true; that god DID speak to prophet Y in some bush or tree or on some mountain, and woe betide anyone who dared dispute this certainty; that the pope IS infallible; and so on ad nauseam.

Richard

I've just had an idea... Why doesn't someone here take the BBC to court for inciting hatred against Christianity?
After all the law does not protect just Islam...

Tim, Sydney

I was commenting on the BBC issue, merely saying that there isn't any point rubbishing the BBC for bias if you just argue the opposite case and make it a black and white issue. I mentioned the KDH not to get into some kind of bizarre argument about whether or not Britain had the right to restrict Jewish immigration but to point out that all of the sides in the Israel-Palestine conflict and in the wider Middle East, routinely inflict atrocities. So arguing against the BBC's inherent bias by pretending that the Arabs are the only perpetrators and Isrel and the US the only victims defeats the object. I would like to see the BBC show a bit of objectivity rather than just go to the opposite extreme as some people on this blog seem to want.

Agnes Day

"And your point? Whatever it is it seems a trifle obscure and self-regarding."

Yes, it was a complete ****ocks wasn't it. Just a few off the cuff remarks with no preparation. It's all the BBC's fault - there's nothing on worth watching these days. I did try to read some books but I got facial cramp and a sore finger Melanie's blog is far more entertaining - a Jerry Springer affair. All the late night and weekend blogging proves that it is addictive for some. The remark about "The Lost Weekend" was meant to highlight this and not offend Verity personally.

The burden of proof lies solely on the enthusiasts of man made religion. They can't justify their delusions so further discussion seems fairly pointless. I just wish that they would get on with it in private and stop expecting the rest of us to take them seriously.

phil

Tim from Sydney -" all of the sides in the Israel-Palestine conflict and in the wider Middle East, routinely inflict atrocities"
YOU REALLY NEED TO BACK UP YOUR STATEMENTS WITH FACTS.
since Deir Yassin(for which the offenders were hunted down) can you actually quote an atrocity perpetrated by Israel?-and by that I mean not one that was accused and then later proved wrong . Please do not quote any crazy individual act from a demented person-just state sponsored will do fine .When you cannot please have the good grace to apologise and then we can get back to our normal debates which is what we do here .

Verity

Agnes Day - Your point about The Lost Weekend wasn't meant to "offend me personally".

Well, good, because I remain unoffended, not having the faintest idea of what your point is supposed to be.

MG 8:40 refers to " the Christian zealots (as if there were any other kind)."

Well, there is another kind of zealot, actually. Muslim zealots who kidnap people and behead them; drive a bomb-laden truck into US Marine Barracks at night while the Marines slept,killing over 200 people; fly 747s into tall buildings; plan to simultaneously crash 10 transAtlantic airliners into 10 major US cities simultaneously; blow up the London Underground; plan to drive a bomb-laden jeep into Glasgow's airport.

That kind of zealot.

MOHAN DADDIKAR

Once upon a time BBC was respected and listened to all over the world for its impartiality.But now that impartiality is a part of history. This organistaion is now infiltrated by leftists who hate all relgions except Islam, inspite of the terrorist activites of the fundamentalst Muslims.

eh-oop

Phil, may I point out that the "massacre" at Dir Yassin was a fabrication concocted by one of Haj Amin el-Hussein's officials and put about by a Palestine Broadcasting Service journalist named Hazen Nusseibeh. PBS in Ramallah was taken over by the Jordanians, and Nusseibeh went on to become a Jordanian minister. He admitted to the fabrication in a 1998 BBC TV documentary called "Israel and the Arabs". Deir Yassin was one of several stories put about by el-Husseini's men in May 1948 aimed at getting the local Arabs to leave their homes so that the invading armies of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq and Syria wouldn't have a civilian problem on their hands while driving the Jews into the sea. Israeli infighting compounded the problem. The right-wing Irgun irregulars who led the heavily contested assault (over a third were casualties) were distrusted by the left-wing leadership of the Palmach (the embryonic Israeli army) and had no status. Their leader hoped to gain clout by exaggerating the number of Arab casualties - a subsequent Bir Zeit University (Palestinian) study halved his estimate - and the Palmach, sensing an opportunity to get one over on the Irgun, was happy to make more mud and help it stick. The myth was given a substance and became a catalyst for terrorism in the ensuing days and over the decades since.

phil

eh hoop -I just expected the guy tim to come up with it as it is the most well known "story"-he has disappeared ,probably changed into a kangeroo as he ca,t find any others .

Peter

"This storyline looked at religious fundamentalism within a fictional Christian group, and one character in particular who took his beliefs to an extreme."

Could not the BBC get the facts right on Christian doctrine? Nowhere does it call for or subscribe to the beheading of others.
Quite the reverse,Christians are to "turn the other cheek".Perhaps this is the problem,the BBC dare not criticise the religion that does call for the infidel to be beheaded.
A lesson there somewhere.

Steve Bronfman

The BBC just plain sux

Ann

"to point out that all of the sides in the Israel-Palestine conflict and in the wider Middle East, routinely inflict atrocities"

Still ignorant drivel, as is your characterisation of the discussion about Britain reneging on its obligations as 'bizarre'.

Ann

"Could not the BBC get the facts right on Christian doctrine?"

Why, does it get its facts right on anything else? It is dementedly antisemitic, it is a propaganda machine for ZanuLabour, and so on.