Why's it unravelling for Dave?

ed hall

Or perhaps it is just because he welshed on a referendum because secretly he was favour of Lisbon all along so all the people who hate Brown and Labour just see him as another useless, slimy liar.

Simon Denis

Rogue poll. As for the expenses scandal - a duckhouse request versus the ginger chipmunk's tens of thousands? No contest. Cuts? Yes please - and the sheer scale of the debt continues to shock and scare most people, who certainly don't require tax rises. Afghanistan? A pointless war with too little equipment; popular? I don't think so. If you are correct and the public is returning to Labour like a dog to its vomit then the last vestiges of reason have been stripped from politics. This is possible, of course, but there is no need to despair prematurely.

dominic lennon

Why should anyone be surprised? Cameron had his chance to set out his stall and blew it. The public are sick of the entire political class and want a party that will give them a say on our future in or out of Europe, end multiculturalism, stop mass immigration, safeguard free speech and stop appeasing militant Islam. The tories are indistinguishable from Labour or the Lib Dumbs on these issues, so why put them in? Better to vote UKIP and trigger a centre-right realignment of British politics after the next election. Then we might have a government that will actually do, heaven forbid, what a large majority of the British people want to be done.

Paul Owen

No Rod, you're wrong. People are still hacked off with Labour and consider them useless. But the Conservatives are unconvincing. They have failed to seal the deal. Cameron looks like the heir to Blair and who wants that now?

Verity

ed hall - "useless, slimy liar" ... I think it's a bit weak, but I'll come up with something tomorrow morning.

In the meantime, at least Cameron floats. I won't say like what.

Lady Mudflaps

Have to agree with ed hall. It's the evasiveness on Europe that's done it for me. There's more, but I just don't feel that Dave deserves it -- he obviously thinks that not being Brown is enough, but it isn't. Time to scare the horses, Dave, or let's have a hung parliament, we don't really care.

Lee Jakeman

Pity you missed the most important three.

1. Immigration. In this respect, the Tories really are a "do-nothing" party - no better than Labour.

2. The EU. We've been sold out. We were looking to Cameron to give us a referendum and he's stabbed us in the back. So again, no better than Labour.

3. Islamisation. The Tories are as likely to appease Muslims as anyone else.

Why vote Tory, when what people are looking for is:

1. Stop immigration.
2. Quit the EU.
3. Stop Islamisation

These just happen to be BNP policies.

Surprise, surprise. And I'm not even BNP.

David

Sigh. The poll was carried out at the same time as the last ICM poll registering a healthy lead for the Tories.

Austin Barry

Well, it's a great choice isn't: the Krays or the Richardsons; the Mafia or the Camorra; the Triads or the Yakuza. I'm sure a lot of us would just like to see them all twisting, inverted in homage to Il Duce, from meat hooks on College Green.

Vulture

Rodders:
1) Afghanistan: You confuse support for the soldiers fighting a grim and unwinnable war with support for the war itself - which is non-existant. If its true that the Afs don't want the Taliban back the solution is in their hands - not ours.
2) You forget steadily rising unemployment. The feelgood factor is still remarkably elusive. 'Bumping along the bottom' would better describve our state.
3) The feeling of 'a plague on both your houses is the dominant one over Exesgate. AS today's disgrace of Andrew Dismal shows, Liebour are at least as bad as the Tories - proabably worse.
4) Poll after poll shows that the nation at large sees the urgent need to cut our ruinous and mounting debt.
5) Now you get to the red meat: Dave is not a popular proposition to 'ordinary people'. All his actions are those of a slippery, dishonest slick PR puffball - a true 'heir to Blair' when Blairism is widely hated. Why would anyone in the north and Midlands vote for this useless, empty, out-of-touch toff?
6) You are being far too kind to the Tory front bench. They are as much use as a one-legged man at an arse-kicking party and have the charisma and chutzpah to match.
7) Sympathetic, perhaps. But you don't vote for arseholes out of pity.

Dave B

I don't agree that it is 'unravelling for Dave.' On this poll, UK Polling Report says:

"...while a lot of the massive shift in voting intentions in this poll appeares to be down to sample variation, there’s a modest firming of the Labour vote too."

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2351

'A modest firming of the Labour vote', could be caused by the approaching election, the recent fillip of a Labour by election win, any number of things.

I don't see Labour doing well at the general election. The recent Guardian/ICM poll produced a lovely little factoid:

"53% would be angry or disappointed at news of a Labour win. Only 36% would feel the same about a Tory victory."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/nov/16/cameron-closing-deal-icm-poll

Roll on the election. :-)

Wilhelm

3 words

Neathergate and Operation Brace.

I dont want my country turned into a Somalian slum and you'll get that if you vote liebour. Wise up, Rod.

Keith

My expectation is that the increase in Lab support is the exception that proves the rule.The strength of feeling in the UK after the Neather and Lisbon debacles has hardened Marxist and Immigrant support behind Labour. If I am correct in my analysis that Immigration and appeasement of Islamists are of fundamental concern to the country at large, then the Tories dismal showing can be laid at the door of CMD. His weak performance in the face of spectacular own goals by Labour and failure to put the Labour cabal on the skewer over Neather and Lisbon have led to widespread disillusionment.Most votes going to UKIP and BNP at the GE would have gone to the Tories if only he had shown a modicum of leadership on these issues.A landslide is still possible .Its not too late.My nightmare is a hung parliament, with a Lib Lab coalition. Then its lights off because Great Britain will not survive as we know it.

lma

Surely there's time to switch him for Boris or Daniel together with the necessary policy adjustments....

Peter from Maidstone

Though I am still inclined to support the Conservatives, I must say that I do not feel that Cameron has made anything very much out of the abysmal state of the nation. I would have thought that he should be on the medi amuch more and presenting a compelling narrative. I still don't really know what he stands for.

Reg511

Rod, are you being paid to write this drivel, all part of the NLP reframing?

Baron Pipin II

It boils down largely to money, dosh, the stuff that the modern, rainbowed, and rights endowed Britain values most. Afghanistan, moats, the EU circus and all that come handy for the display of mass emotions of sadness, anger, disgust and all that. None of it buys the luxury soaps that the great unwashed got used to in the days of the golden calf. The one of the big boys who bribes the most will get the vote. Telling it as it is may be good only for someone who doesn’t mind to get buried. Labour’s promise to cut later, and to cut less, and to clobber the rich with higher taxes appeals to the masses, only masochists prefer pain; and if the pumping of the oily stuff from quantitative easing and the low-cost-of-money policy by the BoE turns the economy around in the months ahead, nuLabour will rejoice again. All Gordon Brown should do is grind his teeth, and keep promising.

Carl

What Dave needs is more completely natural photos of him looking sincere and thoughtful. Two possible locations that come to mind are a beach in Cornwall (Clear of oiks, obviously) or say a Field of Remembrance in Westminster.

Verity

Austin Barry - Hmmmm ... meat hooks. Not very entertaining and quite messy.

I favour what the Devil's Kitchen refers to as "air tap dancing". This involves piano wire and lamp posts.

Ima says: "Surely there's time to switch him for Boris or Daniel together with the necessary policy adjustments...".

That's what I would recommend. It would lift the general cloud of despair ... the sense of there being no choice.

The Marxists/Trots/Gramscis Leftoids would make hey out of it, but so what? The people who snigger and gurn would never have been voting Tory anyway, so their monkey-like capering will not be relevant. The Tories will cheer up and turn out to vote Tory, and that's what counts.

David Ossitt

Lee Jakeman.

You have a good point.

Dixon

"Reg511
November 23rd, 2009 10:49am
Rod, are you being paid to write this drivel, all part of the NLP reframing?"

You obviously know nothing about NLP...or else you would be embarassed to pretend that you do.

Augustus

"Tell me what you reckon."

As far as public support in Thurrock, Barking and Dagenham is concerned, including 'a large number of people from ethnic minority backgrounds', it's a non-establishment party that's getting plenty of support. Small beer? Perhaps, but from small acorns...

Stuart Seacole Bit-Down-at-Heart

Interesting post. I don't think it's unravelling for Dave though, I think just "not being Brown" will prove to be enough in the end. A shame in a way, as what is needed is a really inspiring leader, in these most uninspiring of times.

A few thoughts about what may have contributed to this slight poll swing, which may be more a sign of general listless apathy rather than a carefully considered switch:

- a couple of other posters commented on immigration, and particularly islamic immigration and the related point of the growing indigenous muslim population. The point is, this is truly a poison pill that has been deliberately rammed down the nation's throat by the liberal left (and with little protest from the right)... and it has already dissolved in the stomach; it's already in the blood-stream. The result is, the real debate is no longer about returning to some supposed past situation, where the nation has some level of cultural cohesion, with a common set of values etc. It's more a question of working out how to make the best of a bad situation. Not swallowing any more pills would be a good start of course, but knowing that already the nation can never really recover is not much motivation for the voter.

- those who have foisted over-immigration on the country have done so in the full knowledge that it is irreversible. They have done this without any mandate from the nation. And they've done it out of a kind of inexplicable visceral dislike for Britain as an entity.

- It's worth noting that Britain is not alone in this. Nations across Europe are increasingly disappointed by the multicultural "dream" which is being imposed on them too. We're often invited to marvel at the tremendous cultural diversity, vibrancy, colour, spicy kebab-smells etc (you need go no further than the Spectator's own Alex Massie column for some of this twaddle). The reality across Europe though, is an increasingly homogenous situation, comprising once-great city centers which are often now just drab, poverty ridden, immigrant filled, graffiti covered. Sad shadows of themselves, and definitely not good for tourism. City outskirts are typically nice neighbourhoods, interwoven with occasional areas of unspeakable poverty and high concentrations of immigrants (think the powder-kegs on the edges of Paris). Then you have the countryside, the parts of Europe which remain relatively untouched. Dead boring though, unless you have a love of fields.

- all the above is not to say that immigration as such is a bad thing. It's not, and it has always been part of nationhood. The bad part is the uncontrolled nature of it, the deliberately excessive numbers and the failure to ensure an acceptable level of integration. The excessive numbers alone make integration very difficult for arriving immigrants - something which has done them no service. And done the nation no service.

- then there's Europe. I don't see the EU in such a negative light as many on this thread do. I think European co-operation and cohesion are a good thing for the bloc, primarily for trade and political stability reasons. That's not to say that many aspects of how this is being done aren't deeply flawed - the role of the European Parliament with its faux democratic legitimacy is particulary galling. The thing is though, I think voters sense that they are stuck with the EU whether they like it or not. I say: try to make it better, and avoid shrill calls for disassociation. Britain would end up looking a bit silly on the world stage outside the EU. Reminds me a bit of that Life of Brian moment when Brian asked what happened to the Popular Front of Judea, and Cleese says "he's over there. Splitter!!"

Again, that sense that not all that much will change no matter who's in power doesn't exactly fire the passion. Anyway, there's the end of a rather longwinded blather.

Seems to me a no-brainer that Dave will at least do less damage over the coming years than the imploding Labour party, for what it's worth.

David Ossitt

Stuart Seacole Bit-Down-at-Heart.

"Britain would end up looking a bit silly on the world stage outside the EU"

Poisonous drivel.

Snowman

this blog represent the clued-up, engaged section of the voting public, the masses at large have other worries and headaches; old habits die hard, there’s the forgetting curve to kick in; in the former Eastern colonies of the Soviet Empire (the Czech Republic) the votes cast for the communist party hovered around 20% in free elections after 1989; that’s roughly what both the Tories and Labour can rely on here – its their bought-in loyal client base; on top of it sits the FPTP electoral system that virtually guarantees that it will be either Dave’s bright young newcomers, or Gordon’s battle hardened old-timers who'll make it. Absenteeism, votes for the UKIPs, BNPs may be impressive, but not large enough to beat the candidates of either party in a sufficient number of seats; bribing will help what with near identical stances on any other issue, and nuLabour seems to be good at it. Disappointing it may be, but nuLabour can still pull it, and probably will.

Fragmeister

Could be, of course, some of the vicious and nasty journalism from the likes of the formerly Tory Telgraph and Spectator calling Cameron "Vichy". I thought we spent years trying to get a united Conservative Party and now we get a professed right of centre press that prefers Brown to Cameron. How can the Telegraph have the buffoon Heffer and the idiot Lidell on the same page. Neither of them has a brain but both of them wish to give us the benefit of their profound and inestimable wisdom (or lack thereof).

I've decided, after 30 years, to pack the Telegraph in until it regains its senses. Spectator too. Employ some real journalists. Oh, forgot, you're as cash strapped as the country.

John RH

1. War. Wrong. As has already been said - don't confuse support for Afghanistan with support for the soldiers.

2. Recession correct. Gordon has managed to emerge as the great architect of recovery (and /or saving the world economy)

3. Expenses - not convinced one way or the other. A plague on all your houses is - I suspect - the common denominator.

4. "Mandy" is clever - and his impact is positive - but marginal. Low weighting for this one.

5. David C. Correct. He's unconvincing.

6. Opposition front bench. Correct. They do not relate. Bring back David D.

7. Alastair. Correct - he is much underestimated and I suspect has grudging respect across the country. Gordon is still regarded as a stuffed shirt with no charisma - but he is probably accepted for what he is anyway.

EH Carr said a good historian needs to do more than just list the factors - but also give them weighting and an order of priority. You've missed some obvious ones Rod e.g. What do the Tories stand for? Why didn't the Tories see the recession coming? However - a good starter for discussion.

5.

Martin

Dave's nice.
But he seems soft on islam & immigration

martin

PS
He seems to believe in the man made global warming con

Gil

This is what I personally want:

1. A War Cabinet. We are at war abroad and we will soon be faced with tough decisions on the gravest issues of national security.

2. Blair to return to High Office.

And forget about the PR electoral system. Not with some of the idiots out there with the vote. Tough for the BNP and for the Liberals. I won't cry.

Scott P

Do you want to explain this poll then Rod?

CON 39%(38)
LAB 22%(25 24)
LD 21%(20)
OTHERS 18% (18)

(posted by one of the "penniless dumbo nerds at Political Betting", laughing all the way to the bookies)

SallyC

Seen the new poll.

PB nerds 1

Pundits commenting on stuff they don't understand and making a bit of a wally of themselves and earning their money for comedy value rather than insight 0

Aaron Bell

Picking and choosing your polls, Liddle? There's been one showing a lead of 10% and one of 6%, interspersed with lots of 14s. And today's politicalbetting-commissioned poll has a 17% Tory lead once more.

Since I'm not penniless or a dumbo [willing to plead no contest to the nerd part], you can have £1000 at evens that Cameron doesn't do as well as Major - i.e. he doesn't get a majority of 21 seats or more.

Let me know if you accept and I'll arrange to lodge the money with your indulgent publishers.

corporeal

Perhaps you'd like a small charity bet with the penniless dumbo nerds. Dazzle us with your great predictive powers and benefit a good cause at the same time.

Ricardo

if you risked a bet on that analysis you would almost certainly end up penniless.

Remember the old saying, "a fool and his money are soon parted" so I'd keep my money in my pocket if I were you.

Stephen Gash

If you are English
Vote for anyone,
but the LibLabCON!

JW

I’ve just come to the realisation that we seem to be (simply put) in a 'transitional period' from self sufficient (socially/economically) nation-state to free-trade district- by the Westminster elite.

I'm not going to go on about it too much tonight (I’m not going to wind myself up- it’s bed in a minute) but look into anything at all, that would have been classed as a medium to large industrial operation’s previously manufacturing from trading-estates across the UK.

I bet you can get a container (or three) of any one of these specific mass produced items from China at a fraction of the cost- but now with no overheads, insurances, pensions, ground rent, H&S, liabilities etc, to lay out.

It's not just because of the recession that many jobs are going.

Labour and the Conservatives don't seem to understand that this is a one way nightmare (or let’s hope they don't- because if they do, then would that once of been classed as treason?).

This is so unsustainable- the UK’s microeconomics is a second/third or even of no concern to the political elite- because they are too busy trying to land their Globalist bird on an ever diminishing strip of ‘safe’ land.

This is a fact and it's across the board.

Rob

Or as Anthony Wells suggests, it could be one rogue poll which has, by chance, oversampled Labour voters.

One in twenty polls should be wrong in one way or the other. But because it's not news when a poll says the same as eighteen others, it is, paradoxically, the least reliable polls which always get the most attention.

daniel maris

No, Rod's right.

What people in the Spectator Panzer Tanks ready to roll over the Labour Cavalry don't understand is that the Tories have made a very big and stupid mistake by targetting people's pensions, in particular those in the public sector. After the banking scandal, people are particularly p***ed off with the idea that they, ordinary working people, should reduce their conditions of employment and benefits just to oblige the bonus hogs and the perk pigs.

The Tories, very stupidly, have given a strong impression that the public sector worker is going to be first in the firing line. There was no need for them to do this - you can get just the same amount of (the admittedly necessary) savings by a recruitment freeze, through natural wastage and by genuine efficiency (i.e. money) savings.

But no, the Tories - because they hear all this grievance chatter about the public sector at their dinner parties and at the local party branches - think this targetting will play well. Of course it does - with people who were already going to vote Conservative.

If the Labour Party was led by Mandelson, I think the lead would be down to 3-4% by now. It's only the massive disability of the dour Scotch Broun which is really holding up the Tories' lead.

Everything looks set fair for a hung parliament. And whatever Clegg might say now, the rank and file will want an alliance with Labour.

If Cameron wants to win a majority he needs to offer a real pledge on public sector terms and conditions. He probably can't do that politically, so unless Labour perform far worse, I think Rod's analysis about a weakening lead is probably right.

Tron

Rod, I love your anti-P.C. rants but your old Labour loyalty is still there. Hundreds of polls give a 14% lead to the Tories but ONE poll suddenly cuts that to 6% overnight and you and all the usual suspects (BBC ,Indy, etc.) believe the ONE poll! Labour is finished, get used to it.
You always say there is no faith in Cameron but Tony Blair and his Labour spin-machine fooled so many people , raised their hopes, and then betrayed them that faith and trust is now something British politics must do without. What a legacy.

Morus

Sounds like fighting talk to me, Rod!

If you've got the cullions, I'd advise coming over to PB.com - you've just been offered several thousands of pounds' worth of bets in the comments by some of the 'presumably penniless dumbo nerds at PoliticalBetting.com'.

Should be easy pickings, right?!

Simon Denis

Now it has emergerd that another poll carried out at the same time gave the Conservatives a 14 point lead, the trolls and the Lisbon obsessives should shut up. This seven point poll is clearly a dirty trick. It is designed to divert a number of votes into the useless maw of UKIP. As Redwood points out on his blog, voting Tory will at least prevent further erosion of sovereignty. UKIP offers an irresponsible blast of flatulence followed by Labour or Lib/Lab government. Voting, I repeat, is a choice between evils - infinitely the lesser of the evils available is Dave. This is a perfectly sound and intelligible proposition, but the head bangers can't and the hard left trolls of course won't grasp it. Any dedicated Tory should. Vote Conservative and get rid of Brown, saving what we can from the wreck and preventing further damage.

Peter from Maidstone

Simon Dennis, there is no sovereignty left to erode. That is the point you, and those who are trying to propose some moderate middle way are missing. We are now run by majority voting in Europe, That is the law. David Cameron has already said that there is no point having a referendum because we are in and things cannot be changed unless we are out.

It is already to late for talking. Now is the time for action.

Serf

Rod, Have you noticed the new poll giving the Tories a 17% lead?

Those Dumbo nerds on Political Betting know more about politics than the entire fleet street political journalist corps.

JW

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article6929451.ece

Could someone in the know please explain to anyone how this country is to recover this sum of money, how the post recession industries will generate enough to put us into the black (and, as importantly; what they will be able to produce competatively in a Global market) and what jobs are our school leavers going to be trained to do- eg, before; sheet metal workers, brickeys, motor/winding unit engineers etc etc.

What they going to do now; Phone operators, DJ's or delivery van drivers? Careers like that, maybe?

For any higher income earners; it's the same feeling as if you've just spent 4 years studying an 'Ology' at university and finding that your flipping burgers at the local Macdee's for a post graduate job. This all due to everything of generative worth economically, being sold out from under our feet.

Hugh

What on earth is your evidence for 1,3,4 and 7? The idea Labour have emerged from the expenses scandal better than the opposition in particular strikes me as nonsense. And Mandelson's line is not at all clever. As far as I can tell the only people ever impressed by him are journalists.

Peter from Maidstone

What is beginning to bother me most about Cameron is that he seems to have nothing to say on Europe, nothing to say on Immigration, and nothing to say in Islam. These are the great challenges of our time, but he is virtually silent. If he is unable to address these issues then it becomes harder to vote for him, and a sense of deja-vu does rather seem to descend upon me. Do I want more of more or less the same for another 12 years?

Where is the narrative describing the possibility of a real change?

CS

Whenever I have my doubts about Cameron, I just pop onto Coffee House and read the sputum-flecked comments of those who hate him and suddenly I'm all for him again. It'd be worth having him as PM if only for the joy of annoying so many appalling people.

Tron

Hugh said:"Mandelson's line is not at all clever. As far as I can tell the only people ever impressed by him are journalists.
That is so true. The press either love Mandy or hate him "but he is so brilliant" etc. The Spectator give him awards for God's sake !
The public either don't know who he is or cannot stand the sight of him. I have never heard a good word said about him except by journalists.
He is everything that is wrong with politics. Nice one Fraser!

Anna

Get real Liddle!

Baron Pipin II

Labour could pull it, but a hung Parliament cannot be ruled out either (see Philip Johnson’s column in today’s DT) unless Cameron does what Peter from Maidstone suggests, which is less likely than the Pope converting to Anglicanism and marrying. CS may have to wait some more to annoy the many appalling people.

Eliza Seacole

Off the track somewhat, but how does Cameron get such a tightly neat knot in his tie? It's not a double-windsor, so what is it? My husband's 'knot' is never so crisp and well-defined. Anyone know?

seb

Labour's core vote may or may not 'shore up' in time for the election. Who cares? I agree with CS. The thought of a hung parliament, something that would, were it to come to pass, be regarded by the imbecile British leftocracy as a stunning triumph for Brown, is so appalling that I too am suddenly very keen for the Tories to win in 2010. We have not yet had an election campaign. When an election is called, Kirkcaldy's Leading Autist [I don't feel any sympathy for him and being called nasty names is, in Brown's case, poetic justice] will lose it big time for Labour merely by opening his mouth and showing up on the telly. An outright majority of the voters would, a polls suggest, be angry to see Brown stay. That is, as far as I know, the only issue on which an outright majority of us agree.

Alexandrovich

Eliza, that's a badly tied Half-Windsor. Your Hubby needs a Full-Windsor. Just Google 'How to tie a tie knot.' You'll probably find video's as well.

Verity

Why is it all unravelling for Dave? I don't think it is. It was never ravelled.

There never was any coherence about Dave except his hunger for power by any means.

Lupus Lungfish

Eliza - Its probably a clip on, perfect presentation but not the real thing.

John

One poll and you get carried away !!!
Why did they sit on it for aweek before releasing it?
You can dream on, but while Brown stays in number 10 Labour will not win the next election.

M. Rowley

Eliza - I would ignore Alexandrovich's advice re the Full Windsor. Most ties aren't long enough for them and end up with a overly thick knot, making you look like a professional footballer at a court appearance.

I don't rate Cameron at all as a politician, but he can make a decent fist of what is indeed a Half-Windsor knot, and which is the one to go for.

Ex-Tory voter

As we near the election, simply being not-Brown isn't enough. Cameron has ditched grammar schools, reneged on letting us have a say on Europe, still carries the infamous "heir to Blair" tag and has not, to my knowledge, savaged the government on Neathergate. As I want a government as far removed from the disaster of the last dozen years as possible, what hope does Cameron offer? I've seen a manifesto that ticks all the boxes I want to see in a political party (and it's not Lib/Lab/Con) so that's where my vote will go. None of your suggestions has any bearing on my choice. As far as I'm concerned, Cameron is neither a big C nor a little c conservative. The Lisbon volte-face was the final nail in the coffin.

JAD

You're usually amusing as well as right, but on this you're simply inventing facts to fit your prejudices, Rod.

I'd have thought that someone who's been a political hack for as long as you have would understand that you look at the trend in polls, not at a single poll. The trend is a disaster for Labour and every Tory's wet dream.

susie

Re the deficiencies of the opposition front bench, shadow schools minister Michael Gove hasn't exactly covered himself in glory these past two days over the Islamist schools allegations. Seems he got rather carried away and failed to do all the basic homework. After being so vocal during the day, he was suddenly unavailable for comment on last night's Newsnight and poor Paul Goodman had to step and carry the can, with a somewhat bizarre performance provoking some ridicule in the Twitterverse. Even if some doubts remain over the schools in question, the way the Cameroons presented and handled the issue made them look incompetent and over-susceptible to influences from certain think tanks.

daniel maris

Susie -

Having been put into bat in failing light against a fast bowler I thought Goodman did quite well with some "aggressive defence".