The price of freedom of speech

Andy Gill

Hell will freeze over before we see a Muslim cleric prosecuted for saying exactly the same thing (or far worse) in a mosque, or a Muslim teacher saying the same thing in an Islamic school.

dug

You are one of the only journalists worth reading due to your honesty and wit - hope this ridiculous adjudication will not deflect you

City Seacole Boozer

Rod,

The problem with your post is that Tatchell is a hero and a brave man. You are an occasionally amusing provocateur.

I am no fan of the PCC and they certainly should keep away from blogs but as Tatchell's website itself says:

"Criticism is fine. Untruths are not."
http://www.petertatchell.net/politics/academics-smear-peter-tatchell.html

C(S)B.

David Ossitt

“Tomorrow, I’ll blog the first of a couple of pieces in response to the Press Complaints Commission’s bizarre adjudication (and indeed its self-important breast-beating).”

Give them hell; the cringing grovelling cowards that they are.

Dev Jones

Freedom of speech only works for the BNP and journalists who want to blame all of societies problems on Black People/lifestyle. obviously, rap music is the only music us blacks make and we've all committed crimes but are never the victims. It would seem as if all we have to offer to society is negativity (please note the sarcasm)

terry schuler

alright rod, keep it up give em hell.....when good men say nothing evil will prevail or summit like that...i`ve had experience myself of the pc apologists for murder....google..teery schuler..ofcom broadcast bulletin 132...after a long & tedious battle i got an apology erom the beeb...no £25,000 for me i should get charlie moore to have a dig at me.....all the best...be strong

THX1138

You lost, get over it!

Stephanie Tohill

"Tomorrow, I’ll blog the first of a couple of pieces in response to the Press Complaints Commission’s bizarre adjudication (and indeed its self-important breast-beating). All those figures in full."

Look forward to it. Although the question has to be asked, if you had "all those figures in full" why not provide them to the PCC when requested?

Stephanie Tohill

And, whilst I agree with Tatchell is doesn't correspond to your own piece based on your own race obsession (and it is an obsession Liddle, a Google of you produces an inordinate number of pieces connected with non-whites).

They didn't make their comments based on 'Freedom of Speech' but rather the ability to support assertions dressed up as fact when challenged. Which it appears you did not do.

Shawn Holes opinion appears to be just that.

Harding, Swansea

Ron,

I look forward to your piece about the PCC tomorrow. Maybe you can share with us the evidence on which you based your original comments.

If not, suck it up.

Jonn

Oh grow up. You were factually wrong, you offended people, you've been given a slap on the wrist for it. Stop crying that it wasn't your fault like a little boy caught stealing sweets.

It's not as if the PPC is in the habit of censuring columnists, is it? The lesson here, surely, is that if you want to go round making provocatively offensive comments, you should stick to ones that can't be disproved with documentary evidence.

Fergus Pickering

He lost WHAT exactly, me old numberplate? Has Rod lost money? I must admit I dunno. Has he lost reputation? Obviously not.You mean he lost because the ludicrous PCC said he was a naughty boy I don't call that losing.

Daniel Heslop

What dug said.

Homo Fabula

City Seacole Boozer.

So an occasionally amusing provocateur speaks up for a brave man...and your problem is?

Dog Snob

"Shawn Holes" ?

Must be dashed uncomfortable for a couple of weeks.

John Bull anti-vacinne

No reasonable person finds this principle hard to swallow Mr Liddle. What they find hard to swallow are assertions posited in respectable publications which have no basis in fact. As Peter Tatchell rightly points out, this preacher should be challenged and we should protest his intolerance. The price of freedom of speech is indeed, "that we sometimes have to put up with opinions that are objectionable and offensive." We do not however, have to put up with views which have no basis in fact. That is why yours is the first blog to be censured, because the PCC found that press blogs should be held to the same standards as their print equivalents.

I only hope your response to the PCC adjudication is better thought through.

Ian C

Would you ask, nicely of course, those awfully nice PCC people if they would sanction me as I agreed with you on that post.

Strange to hear your name on the Today programme, this morning Rod! For a moment I thought we had gone back a few years....

Eli

Had Holes said homos are "deserving of the wrath of Allah", all would have been well.
If God-fearing gays can provoke wrathful Allah, they should hardly be afeared of Holes. Gay unbelievers are not afeared of Allah or hell or Holes' promise of it.
Where's the offense?

John Steadman

I believe that imposing a fine on somebody for expressing an opinion, however upalateable, is, frankly, terrifying and sinister, and I am astonished that it has not provoked an uprising.
Tatchell - with whose views I have little sympathy - is a gem, and Rod Liddle's defence of him tells us something about Liddle, who is no racist, and suffers only an excess of integrity and courage, even to the point of jeopardising his own career.
Unequivocally, my hat is off to Messrs Tatchell and Liddle.

Mike

Rod is one of the bravest and best journalists in Britain. How unfortunate the PCC report comes in the days when a gang of school children condcut a running knife fight in central London.

logdon

Why do so many people, particularly on the left, find such a principle so hard to swallow?

Because, Rod they are true bigots.

It's called projection and reading some of their juvenile and obnoxiously hubristic comments here, 'you lost, 'suck it up' being prize examples, reveals the mindset of these left wing lunatic totalitarians.

Keep it up. The voice of honesty and truth can never be wrong even when swimming against a tide of authoritarian state sanctioned bile.

PS

Rather than Seacole maybe you should change your nom de guerre to Mohammed. That way you can say what you like about anything you feel like challenging and the cretins will never dare utter a word.

Pot Head

Fergus P as he didn't get the Indy job of the back of the blatantly racist & WRONG goat curry post I do hope he has lost money lots of it.

As for the "ludicrous PCC" its Chairman is one of your own, Daily Mail editor Paul Dacre

HairyNoddy

English hating bigot: "We do not however, have to put up with views which have no basis in fact"

Unless they happen to coincide with your own racist slant right bigot? You seem to have got away with your pedo slur against whites with no problems.

merlinthepig

THX, I would wholly expect you to recognise a loser

Noa Zrk

Freedom of speech has gone as Tatchell has identified. We lost it when the speech and discrimination crimes for gender racial and religious hate were created. After that its only a matter of extending the intolerence, bald people, nose hair, brunettes, anti labour politicians, people who dislike Harriet Harman and Gordon Brown.

Just wait your turn. There'll be a law in place just for you shortly. You thin/fat middle age/old white/black man/woman.

Oh Yes. Do you think Cameron will repeal any of this Labour legal crap if the Tories are elected?

Noa Zrk

Freedom of speech has gone as Tatchell has identified. We lost it when the speech and discrimination crimes for gender racial and religious hate were created. After that its only a matter of extending the intolerence, bald people, nose hair, brunettes, anti labour politicians, people who dislike Harriet Harman and Gordon Brown.

Just wait your turn. There'll be a law in place just for you shortly. You thin/fat middle age/old white/black man/woman.

Oh Yes. Do you think Cameron will repeal any of this Labour legal crap if the Tories are elected?

Fergus Pickering

Pot Head, why is Paul Dacre one of my own? Paul Dacre is a... silly fellow. And the PCC is ludicrous.

John Bull anti-vaccine

Oh is that childish tirade levelled against me Noddy?

I don't feel like I've gotten away with anything, but please feel free this time round to provide us with all the data on sex crimes against children committed by non-whites that you can find, rather than running for cover as you did last time I asked.

I know you've got Big Ears, but do you actually live in Toytown?

Robert Taggart

Roddy, Roddy, Roddy... stop being so 'conservative' !
Go get 'em boy ! (PCC that be !)

jim

jesus, rod, you are one serious waste of space.

Aberdeen Angus

The PCC has been blatently biased in its findings on this. I cannot imagine, for example, that if someone had written something untrue about whites such as "the overwhelming majority of racially motivated criminals are white" they would have even considered a complaint.

Having said that Rod Liddle has laid himself open to this charge by using exageration and emotive rhetoric. He could have discussed this important issue in a calm and thoughtful manner, as is being done here for example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMoBJgBqSL0

Instead he chose to write in a way that generates more heat than light

Baron

You’ve lost me, have no idea what you’re talking about, will have to wait for your tomorrow’s blog.

The news of the adjudication may have been on the Today slot, but I no longer listen to it. Last time I switched it on by mistake, Simon Shama was sucking up to Pelosi & co, boy, what an exercise in arselicking, and my day was completely ruined.

Stephanie Tohill

Hopefully when Liddle drafts his piece tomorrow he can explain this little thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-V0C_iGyck&ytsession=Aw-QbJdRDPpBlv827oMaAHIz73nx4NEZDdtJw5pkREak9iqERBTrZifGY8GGivjKocrlWHTur89_As2agSwlvAa755x_waMo2sh6aV0vKYEHzeQj6pJasCa_A4sSoqldPwFl7Lq3dX7_6j2L8zxJ6r5O_IO3CN1uR4yHsTFK-EplWpenhMu6c8X9HluUhCi-Q1Li8cBwKva9MgO2wV6vJW8X2jxwNPO8w6YsPU3FiREjbGpYkD7h4ETxKCT7xSNVTAxI2WXourr7gYpvlum9m-tOhJMkDCm3F1Df6Xvudd-tzXZxJffEBmhc2o3EXrqD

For some reason a messy link.

Would also love him to explain his race obsession (in particular with black males) and how on earth he links multi-culturalism to all of this. I have asked the last two before, but still no response.

Gary Thompson

Why do so many people, particularly on the left, find such a principle so hard to swallow? "

In my opinion and without hard evidence - it's because they're Champagne socialists.

burstshop

Uhm....the "facts" you published were wrong. They couldn't be backed up.
As much as I like you Rod surely you have to admit defeat on this one.

Iain Hicken

Rod,
PCC be damned, at least you are willing to be honest.
In the case of the homophobe preacher, I don't think it can truly be called homophobia as he didn't single out only the gay community. To quote him "Homosexuals are deserving of the wrath of God – and so are all other sinners – and they are going to a place called hell."
He specifically says 'All sinners' and simply singles out homosexual acts as an example.

Suffice to say, I disagree with the bloke entirely. I don't believe in god, don't believe in American Baptist evangelicals and couldn't care less if someone was gay or straight.

JW

Er, isn't Peter Tatchell on the left?

Twitter Seacole Facebook Flashman

I hate it when the PC twitters appear on here. Begone - back to being outraged and offended on Facebook!

Osred

Stephanie Ttohill, you accuse Mr Lidl of having a 'race obsession' because he writes stuff about young black males. What exactly is your problem with an individual journalist who writes about the world around him writing about such stuff? The reality is is that the amount of journalist comment about that group is far far below what it should be if the media in general truly reflected the populations concerns and the ill effects they are having on non-young black males.

What next? Criticising Melanie Phillips for her 'Jewish obsession' or Fraser Nelson for his Tory/Labour obsession?

Why are you obsessed with Mr L not positively stereotyping young black males?

MikeF

A few points are worth making.

Firstly bigotry is self-righteous intolerance of other people's freedom of expression. In other words its essential element is the attempt to stop other people saying or doing things that you happen not to like. It is not simply the expression of opinions that other people find offensive. As far as I can tell this particular individual has done no more than express his beliefs, which I do not share - hence he is not a bigot. For someone who excoriates 'PC Liberals' Rod you have a dismaying predeliction for echoing their penchant for using this ugly and violent word as a catch-all term of abuse, which frankly is all it is these days. A pity because used properly and with discretion it might retain some worthwhile value.

Nor, at least as far as I am concerned, is there any such thing as 'homophobia'. The term is a piece of pseudo-sociological junk with which activists like Peter Tatchell like to smear anyone who says anything on the subject of homosexuality that they disagree with. As a piece of hyperbole to describe, say, violence against homosexual people it might be acceptable, but as a way of tarring for instance people who have a principled objection to gay adoption it is just.... well little more than bigotry.

Intolerance is intolerance whether it justifies itself by biblical literalism or a parody of scientific terminology that is devoid of any of the impartial analytical content that ought to unerpin it.

C Cole

@ dug

Seconded.

@ Osred

Hear, hear.

Stephanie Tohil

Osred.

I didn't accuse Liddle of a race obsession 'because he writes stuff about young black males'. I accused him of it because he continuously wrotes 'stuff' about non-whites in general and non-whites in particular.

As somebody who really is over the whole 'race' thing' when I come across people who continually mention it I feel the need to ask them about it (I think the same of Yasmin Alibhai Brown for example.)

I don't think I said I had a 'problem' merely was baffled. I am not sure how much more you think he should be writing because as far I am not sure each and everything, cocuring in the planet to date, nor even 'the vast majority' concerns young black males.

I don't think I once said Mr Liddle should be 'positively stereotyping black males'.

That is your invention. I'm just interested in an obsession which considers gun crime in London, of vital importance, but that which occurs in Glasgow worthy of being ignored.

Although I am interested in the ill effects they are having on 'non-young black males' across the population. I think that says more about you and your circle of acquaintances. Most people I know don't feel 'ill-effects' from young black males, most of whom have no interest in violence, crime and other such things irrespective of what Liddle may have you believe.

And yes I would state Phillips has an obsession with Israel, which I am sure she would not deny. In fact she regularly explains why Israel is of special importance to so many Jewish people.

HairyNoddy

Anti English Bigot: Your slanderous accusation that whites commit a disproportionate amount of paedophile crimes is completely unwarranted, and you have failed to provide any evidence to back this up.

In doing so you did exactly what you accuse Rod of doing, making racist bigotted accusations without any justification. Are you completely unaware of just how hypocritical you are?

I'll let you off providing any evidence to back up your claim if you will explain your choice of name and apologise for being a racist lying bigot and a hypocrite.

David Alexander

Why do so many people, particularly on the left, find such a principle so hard to swallow?

The Left are Totalitarian, they abhor Democracy & debate. You should know that Rod.

Maddy1

Peter would have been a hero if he stayed in Broome in that poky little bar in the one horse hotel and educated the locals. Rod is a poseur and provocateur but the only way through the morass is for the silent majority to take their country back!

Neil Saunders

As a moderately morally and socially conservative atheist (such people DO exist, I assure you!), I disagree with most of Peter Tatchell's views on sexuality and family structure, although I share his wider concerns about human rights.

Despite the large area of disagreement I have with him, I nevertheless admire him as a man of utter integrity and great moral and physical courage in standing up for his beliefs.

Ben Bouckley

Good thing too. There's a lot of bluster and Little Englander nonsense being spouted by 'True Blues' on the Spectator site, but surely the point is (in a multi-cultural society) you need to be careful what you say in such a prominent position. Especially when the statistics don't substantiate your point.

Bloggers and columnists have a wider social responsibility under the PCC editors' code -- posts like Liddell's are one of the reasons why people are drawn to extremist parties like the BNP, misguidedly in my view.

Moreover, I think Spectator readers are missing the point here: a critical adjudication from the PCC means that the Spectator simply has to print an apology and a retraction. As it was, the services of free speech were served by Liddle saying what he wanted to in the first place. It's not as if he's been hung, drawn and quartered. Precisely the sort of extreme violence that racial hatred could provoke.