Succour for John Thomas

David Alexander

Caroline Flint anagrams to 'Flail on cretin'........which is an anagram of 'Fill container.'

The first might apply to your choice of (predominantly) Left Wingers, the second to the question posed in No.10.

John Holland

John Thomas seems like a broad-minded and decent chap. What's he doing here?

Ray

Good politicians...in which case, John Profumo.

Admittedly, he dropped one almighty clanger and then foolishly lied to try and cover it up.

However, in the thirty odd years thereafter he more than redeemed himself by way of quiet, yet diligent charitable work amongst the less fortunate members of our society; and in the process proved himself to be a far more honorable 'right honorable member' than many of the twisters and shysters who have followed him in and out of elected high office since.

Noa

Rod

Are you going through an uninspired patch at the moment, or just content to mine a winning seam to bedrockI(Flint? Chri...key!).Anyway here's my completely personal take:

Chamberlain - for buying time for British re-armament.
Mosley - for reminding us why we needed to.
Brown Gordon - for reminding us why we need fiscal prudence, a smaller state and the restoration of the Antonine wall and/or hanging, drawing and quartering.
Jack Dromey - for showing us why the incestuous Union/Labour Party relationship is so inimical to democracy.
Lloyd George - for fathering Wales and being a better wartime PM than he was thought to be.
Lord Halifax - Prescient in his analysis of the consequences of war for Britain.
Antony Eden - the last PM to put UK interests ahead of the USA's.
Baroness Ashton- the exemplification of the demise of directly elected democracy in the EU
Neil Kinnock - for showing how a socialist can rise become a pig in true orwellian style.
Attlee- for being the best Communist Party leader the country never had.

Robbo

What's with all the Old Labour Socialists clogging up your list? Pining for the Gulag in these wet and miserable liberal days, are we? I'll see you on Winnie, raise you a Maggie and tell your wife about your dribbling over Flint.

Abandon Ship!

Baroness Thatcher MUST be in this list

Northern Thicky Twa*. aka Jez

Ha Ha Ha!!

I wonder the number of comment posts before someone puts;

"You missed Nick Griffin!"

Northern Thicky Twa*, aka Jez

You missed Nick Griffin!

Northern Thicky Twa*, Jez

...... wait a minute?

Seriously, you missed Enoch Powell.

You lot still can't be in denial that you know better than him can you?!

Are you all mental... you even work and in and read local London papers. The stabbings, shootings, the ethnically divided districts.... you know, the stuff that gets swept under the carpets nationally?

Coeur de Seacole Lion

Royal Marine, not a soldier

merlinthepig

"All John Thomas's need succour"
I saw that one coming!

Craig Strachan

Maggie needs to be in there, and you know it.

fulcra1537

Roy Mason MP for Barnsley and now Lord Mason of Barnsley.As Defence Secretary he oversaw the deployment of the SAS to South Armagh at that time a de facto IRA run enclave and later as Secretary of State for Northern Ireland 1976 sanctioned the regiment's deployment across the entire province.Coupled with a sustained increase in covert military operations and intelligence gathering this policy produced a dramatic fall in terrorist activity to the extent that the IRA admitted that Mason nearly defeated them -"Kicked the shit out of us" as the egregious Martin McGuinness put it.If Mason had been able to finish the job Messrs Adams and McGuinness would be today selling the Big Issue outside Belfast City Hall instead of drawing taxpayer funded expenses and allowances.Mason also faced down the Loyalist hoods and saw off an attempt to repeat the UWC strike which destroyed the first power sharing assembly.Mason was the only cabinet minister in the twilight years of the Callaghan era to have left the office committed to his charge a better place to the one he inherited and hundreds of British citizens could be said to owe their lives to him.An ex Yorkshire miner Mason was quietly competent,patriotic unshowy,and anchored stolidly at the moderate centre of his party.grounde.In short he was a type of Labour politician now entirely extinct.I doubt few remember him now.

Also Willie Whitelaw Thatcher's Deputy Leader,avuncular,oyster eyed Tory grandee,ex major Guards Tank Brigade MC holder and all round good egg.In 1974 he memorably accused Harold Wilson of going round the country stirring up apathy.Thatcher made Whitelaw responsible as Deputy Leader for ensuring that ministers didn't slip up on policy pronouncement banana skins,announcing without a hint of irony that "Every Prime Minister needs a Willie".Right now he would be giving that wet looking young ingenue subaltern from Witney a bit of a talking to in a quiet corner of the officers'mess.

Mason and Whitelaw,miner and Guards officer, came from different and opposing worlds but epitomised certain qualities traditionally associated with this country which now seemed to have been almost completely discarded.

They also share another distinction.Neither would be given house room today in the parties they,with some merit,served for so long.

merlinthepig

Seriously, though, Kinnock?!

JohnBUK

I'm sorry Rod, "Neil Kinnock"!! I'll go with the others, but the windbag - Nooo.

Stephen Almond

"3. Barbara Castle. Principle, intellectual honesty."

Fer God's sake, man. Be serious!

Blackburn lad.

Peter Crawford

Margaret Thatcher.
Nigel Lawson too although I don't like the way he giggles girlishly and sucks his fingers while icing the buns. Lacks gravitas.

rod liddle

Noa - oh probably, mate. I just thought it might be fun after the irritating thread. Back to bile tomorrow.

Lungfish

Peter Shore?- yes I remember him. Yellow around the eyes, old socialist sort of bloke, made a lot of noise around the same time as our hero Peter Tatchell- Millie Tant is my hero.

Frank P

I geddit Rod; each one on your list is a piss-take, right?

merlinthepig

"I saw that one coming????"

The whole post was predicated upon it. In fact 'John Thomas' is probably Rod, just for that one-liner.

lungfish

Aye

Alan Douglas

George Brown - chronically wrong and a lush, but honest. Might explain the 'lush' bit.

Anthony Wedgewood Benn - a totally reliable politician - if her were 'for it', one could with absolute safety be against it, and right.

Alan Douglas

'Fangs' Mandy

John Holland: ha ha ha!
You seem cool-headed, witty, and urbane: same question.

No, that's not a pick-up line. You're not even in my time zone. And anyway, I have fangs.

Eddie

Harlod Wilson kept the UK out of Viet Nam (before I wa sborn but... I'd watched the films; I've eaten the soup!) when the yanks were demanding we went in. That deserves a place on the list.

Please compare such morally right refusal to be a poodle of the US to Blair and Cameron whose noses are permanently stuck up the senior partner's derrier - whether that senior partner is a barely literate, US-upper class twerp failed oil man - or a Brit-hating, incompetent, hypocritical, inexperienced hot-air spouting Obo...)

revolution

The un principled opportunist and former CND member Kinnock fairly honest?

DougS

I'd nominate John Biffen.

I seem to recall he was always getting into trouble, during Margaret Thatcher's reign, for being honest and 'telling it like it is (was)'. Very rare in a politician!

DougS

I'd move Peter Shore to the top of the list - if only we'd listened to him.

I did, by the way.

Daniel Heslop

Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, 3rd Marquess of Salisbury - Did sod all in three terms - more of that please!

Y Rhyfelwr Dewr

Isn't it curious how, in most categories, we can name good far more easily than bad.

Most of us could compile the ten best cars in the world within a couple of minutes, whereas we'd be stuck nominating more than a couple of the worst cars in the world.

What's your favourite restaurant -- I'm sure you'd tell me without hesitation. What's your most-hated restaurant -- you'd probably have to think for a moment.

But with politicians, it's the opposite. We know exactly who we'd put in the stocks given half a chance. But compiling a list of great politicians -- well, does anybody really even care that much?

Y Rhyfelwr Dewr

John Holland @ 7.58: "John Thomas seems like a broad-minded and decent chap."

Sounds like a dick to me ;-)

Lungfish

Edward Du Cann was the best prime minister we never had.

andre-michel

Caroline Flint? What?
She always looks to me as if she's trying to thaw a packet of frozen peas between her legs.

Oedipus Rex

Interesting list, Rod. Agree with many, particularly:

Healey - great understanding of the scope of international politics, the best Foreign Secretary we never had

Howard - probably saved the Tories as well. I hated all that 'something of the night' bull thrown at him, totally unjustified.

I'll throw in also:

George Walden - intelligent, non-partisan, genuine concern about good education against the grain of his own party and has rightly rubbished Gove's 'Swedish model' (no, not that kind of swedish model)

David Winnick - for leading the move to oust Speaker Martin over the expenses scandal and for having the 2nd lowest expenses despite working tirelessly for his constituents.

Tony Banks - for his sense of humour, for being a republican without being a boor and for being someone you could have a good night out with in the pub.

@fulcra1537

Very interesting post. Ask yourself why it is that there aren't people like this in politics now. Is it because they no longer exist, or that anyone of that gravitas wants to keep out of Westminster and do what they can elsewhere?
And if so, why? I put a lot of blame on the media and the public's obsession with personalising and trivialising political debate - we usually get the politicians we deserve.

GeoffM

I DEFINITELY would.

I could even manage seconds....

Oedipus 'X Pints' Rex

10. Caroline Flint. Well come on, you would, wouldn’t you?

Err...3 pints, ,maybe 2

John Holland

Northern Thicky etc.,
Your'e right, Londoners should know better. It's just that we spend most of our time in leaky dingies navigating the raging Rivers Of Blood that surge through every street here, being chased by grinning, howling bands of fuzzy-wuzzies, eyes swivelling and teeth gleaming, as we try desperately to break through the border patrolled by PC Gonemad and his multicultural Gestapo, dreaming of the crime and darkie-free promised land of Oopnorth.
So sometimes we need people like you to remind us the simple truth. Please send supplies of pea-juice and The Daily Mail.

Mandy; thankyou- I am all those things you kindly suggest, and more. Unfortunately, I smell like a badger.

Richard of Moscow

Very difficult, like asking for 10 great Scottish goalkeepers.

Barbara Castle is a strange choice, as she was one of Stalin's useful idiots.
Attlee, Pantsdown and Healey should also have been flogged regarding Burma, Yugoslavia and Diego Garcia respectively.

Oh well, here goes:

Winston Churchill
David Trimble
Boris Johnson (for not being Livingstone or Norris)
Harold MacMillan
Alan Clark
Ian Gow
Airey Neave
Chris Smith
David Mellor (for keeping his sanity, despite repeatedly dealing with the 6.06 whingers, Saddam Hussein, Margaret Thatcher and the great dictator, Ken Bates)
Enoch Powell.

Chris

Margaret Thatcher, Winston Churchill, Keith Joseph, Kate Hoey, Frank Field, Ian Gow, Geoffrey Howe, Ronald Reagan, Neville Chamberlain (bought us time, as someone else says), Ernest Bevin

Paul

Margaret Thatcher
Norman Tebbit
Nigel Lawson
Enoch Powell
William Hague
Rab Butler
Ernest Bevin
Kate Hoey
Frank Field
Alec Douglas-Home

dearieme

Clement Attlee scores on decency but he greatly damaged the pre-existing welfare state and he handed the detailed design of the health service that Beveridge had called for to the most doctrinaire, malevolent and stupid of his senior colleagues. Since his nationalisations were also a huge folly, I'd return to his decency to make a case for him.

Noa

How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world! That has such people in it!

And in this wonderland it's bile tomorrow and bile yesterday - but never bile today.

John Steadman

Gerry Fitt, Frank Field, Healey, Ken Clarke, Thatcher, Churchill, Powell, Wilson, John Biffin, Connor Cruise O'Brien

David Ossitt

Barbara Castle was due to speak at a labour election meeting in our town, me and another (both active conservatives) were asked by our local party committee to attend and if possible to ask a number of rather awkward questions of the good lady.

We never got round to asking a single question, it would have been too cruel, it would have been like kicking a man when he was down.

The meeting started well, the local labour chairman welcomed Barbara Castle and asked the assembled audience to listen carefully to her words of wisdom.

She stood up, smiled, and then said it is wonderful to be here in? (She could not remember where she was), an aid, in a loud stage whisper reminded her.

She smiled again and said that we had a wonderful candidate in? (She did not know his name) when she was reminded of it, she twice got it wrong.

We left the room shortly after, as she had just said with tears in her eyes, we could have won, if only we had a few more weeks to canvas, we could have won.

She had already given in.

My overall impression was that she was well past her best and that at her best she was never as good as she thought she was.

Northern Thicky Twa*, aka Jez

Hi John Holland,

I've two pretty big building sites i'm looking after in 'Ground Zeeerow' multiculturaland aka London.... expect a few more of the same brother. x

Rod Goslin

I feel that any list of good MP's should certainly include Sir Stafford Cripps, Ernest Bevin and Aneurin Bevan.

gareth

What about Wedgie Benn? he was good.

Gerald Kaufmann has served his country as an MP , Lord and Gorton has never looked so good. And.....you would wouldn't you Rod? go on admit it.

Barbara Castle saved Blackburn and turned it into a modern day Islamabad.

Hattersley's Sparkbrook bodes well for the future thanks to his influence.

Peter Shore was wonderful - why is he not remembered more? A mystery.

8th place for Churchill which is fair, he was fairly mediocre.

The EU Commission has found Neil Kinnock to be a model politician - independent and honest.

Perhaps these politicians could be good enough to form a Golden 10 - led by a Golden Chancellor and supporting a Golden generation of English footballers. lest we forget.

Lo Ma Sek to

This is the last time I will ever read Lidle. He has proven himself to be a complete sell-out or a complete idiot. Either way...

Robert Taggart

Maggie... yes, you know, THE Iron Lady.
If only she had employed moi to advise her post '87...
No Poll Tax, no "we are a grandmother" ! no ERM.
No one lasts forever, but, she saved this country from the ruin of socialism, therefore methinks she deserved better and longer. HONEST !
Oh, just for balance...
Philip Whitehead (labour).
David Laws (LibDem).
Dick Tavern(Independentish !).

Lungfish

Sorry about being so rude about Simon Hughes- Sorry Simon!, but stop being so daft.

DeeJay

Given that this is 'The Spectator' and I have never voted other than Conservative for the past 40 odd years I am slightly surprised at my own choice. But I have thought carefully and have concluded that its they who are in the wrong party:

i) Kate Hoey

ii) Frank Field

About Anglia

When I think back over my nearly 40 years of sentient life there is only one MP I feel well disposed to (apart from Maggie and Norman Tebbit but they go without saying) and that is Clement Freud.

So Clement Freud gets my vote.

Eddie

I think a problem with this poll (and the most irritable politician poll too) is that they predicatably and necessarily only mention those politicians in the media spotlight - the show-offs, dandies, loud mouths and crazies.

A good MP is surely just someone who actually sorts things out for the constituents he serves, even if that is at his own cost: he puts his role as loyal, honest and hardworking constituency MP above his ambition for high office.

How on earth can an MP who is also PM or in the cabinet be there for his constituents in any real way? I have never worked that one out.

So, I nominate all the hardworking MPs no-one has ever heard of as the best politicians ever. (E.g. Alan Williams of Swansea West, until recently Father of the House after being MP for over 50 years).

David

These are in no particular order, just those who have risen above the drab, thec anonymous and the mediocre or who have created a spark and earned their place in history.

1 Julian Critchley - self-deprecating, witty, slyly critical of his own party, also wrote a couple of wonderful volumes about life as a back-bencher.
2 Dave Nellist – Trotskyist loon, but unremittingly honest, showed Kinnock up to be a dreadful hypocrite.
3 Tam Dalyell – the sort of loose cannon that Parliament is currently sadly lacking.
4 Robin Cook – worth inclusion for his Iraq resignation speech alone.
5 Barbara Castle – fearless, fought her way to the top in a misogynist culture.
6 Roy Jenkins – an amazing life both inside and outside of politics, made his mark in lots of areas.
7 John Biffen – had the right mix: right-wing on the EU and the economy, left-wing on social policy, underated.
8 Norman Tebbit – took on and destroyed the trade union barons in the 80’s, one of the most important victories in British politics.
9 Betty Boothroyd – the best speaker since the war.
10 Denis Healey – a thug, but put country before party and career.

Kabt

No Rod, I wouldn't be adding Flint on the basis of her sex appeal but being a bloke you hold these things sacrosanct. My list would hold John Biffen and Dennis Skinner for having a little more integrity than most. Alas, for women, there aren't many Brad Pitt's in politics for us to lust after. We have to leave that to our Russian sisters who want a passport to this confused little nation of ours.

Noa enohes

Jez -August 6th, 2010 9:19pm
"...... wait a minute?
Seriously, you missed Enoch Powell".

That'll be because mentioning him could cause Irritable Powell syndrome.

Noa

Jez August 6th, 2010 9:19pm
".. wait a minute?
Seriously, you missed Enoch Powell..".

That is because including him might cause Irritable Powell Syndrome.

GaryO

John Major
A thoroughly good man undermined by his own party.

EyeSee

I would agree to all of those except Kinnock. This is the man who, a failure in British politics entered the Pit to enrich himself with EU cash, followed by the rest of his house. He probably got his cat a job, running the car pool or something similarly improbable. This is the man who was tasked with 'cleaning up corruption in the EU' and, being a good Eurocrat turned on the whistleblowers with a vengeance; no more corruption problems. Kinnock and his awful clan are certainly enemies of the people in the fullest and most true meaning of the phrase.

David Ossitt

EyeSee.

Kinnock and his awful clan are certainly enemies of the people in the fullest and most true meaning of the phrase.

Spot on.

Craig M

Why not Arthur Scargill? Without him, the British people would not have understood how dangerous the Left can be? And how necessary a politician like Maggie was.

Wilhelm

The best politician over the last 50 years is Enoch Powell, problem was he was honest and truthful which is not good if you want to be a politician, you have to be a hypocrite, lie and back stab like Tony Blair and Gordon Broon.

Secondly Powell was too clever, he spoke 12 languages, ( at the age 13 he wanted to be the
Viceroy of India ) and people dont like that. Prophets are never apreciated in their own countries.

What he warned about, the English cohesive monoculture has been fragmented by black knife street crime, burquas, honour killings, sharia law, mosques, islamic terrorism, London underground and Glasgow airport bombings.

Britain is now an importer and exporter of muslim terrorism, all thanks to mass immigration. This is the legacy the liberals back in the 1960s and 70s have left for us. Thanks a bunch.

CharlieRay15

I agree with GaryO. John Major kept Kinnock out of No. 10.

Ben

Jo Grimond believed that the Government was too powerful and that the State had too much authority.

Just for that he deserves to be in the top three.

David Ossitt

Wilhelm
August 9th, 2010 3:20pm

Sound very sound judgment.

S.Tarling

This is going to be difficult. I am all consumed with seething hatred for our "political class" but I try to keep it under control by living in the moment. Well here goes...
1. Estelle Morris for admitting she was out of her depth at the Education Dept.
Can't think of any others.

Eddie

I agree Wilhelm.

I used to think Enoch Powell was a racist bigot - because that is what the media ad the chatterati TELL everyone to think.

However, I now know that Powell was clearly a highly intelligent and well-read man, who grew up in South Asia and knew it well - and spoke fluent Urdu! (half our politicans can't even manage English!) - who was not at all 'racist' in any way I understand the word and concept, but knew, from the many examples in history including ethic violence and partition in India which he witnessed, that people who are extremely different from each simply cannot exist peaceably and never will. The ghettoisation of British society along ethnic/diversity/multisulti lines, and Islamic terrorism of course, seem to prove his point.

Enoch Powell proves that politics is no place for highly intelligent and well-read, cultured people. If you are mediocre, full of hypocritical hot air, have no prinicples or courage whatsoever and are willing to tell people what they want to hear whilst bribing them with policies that enrich them, you'll do well in politics. Just look at Obama or Blair. If you're highly brainy, educated, well-read, knowledgeable and have true vision, you won't - not in a 'democracy' anyway. Ho hum...

Richard of Moscow

I think Eddie has it right; how long could anyone with principles and intelligence last in the midst of our pinhead politicians?

Imagine having to agree with the imbecilic crap churned out by the likes of Blair, or Cameron, or even Obama, and do it not only at small public gatherings, but on TV, to be recorded and stored so that future historians and your own descendants will watch you making a complete and utter Berkeley Hunt of yourself.

I suspect politics is the middle class's version of the police force - only for those who can't hold down a proper job.

rod liddle

Eddie:

"According to the latest score/Mr Enoch Powell is a falling star/so in the future please bear in mind/don't see it clear, don't see it far."

- John Cale, from the song Graham Greene, 1973. I don't think he's right, though.

And yes, I agree with that Estelle Morris suggestion.

Lee Jakeman

You've lost it. Enoch Powell was the best.

John Thomas

Well, it's good to see Rod has risen to the challenge I set him, and his list does look interesting (but do ALL of them qualify to be there, really?). Maybe it would be harder if we restricted it to politicians of the last two or three decades. I think Rod's "FAIRLY honest" (Kinnock) could apply to most of them. Today, I bet more are pocket-liners, than are not. John Holland - I must say I don't read all Rod's blogs, and comment on less, but, yes, despite being broad-minded, I give it a go occasionally.

John Thomas

Thank you Frank P but I am NOT and never have been Rod Liddle (bet he gets paid a lot more than me, though ... mm ...). In the '90s I lived near Croydon, and discovered that the borough not only had a second John Thomas, but he, like me, was DOCTOR J T; so, lot of us about, it seems ... No, I'm really, really real (but like Rod, I also do some scribbling; check out www.twinbooks.co.uk).

Rob

Caroline Flint has an amazing arse and exudes raw sexuality.

Simon Stephenson

Although very late into the proceedings, I'd just like to say that the following paragraph, by Eddie on August 10th, is as good as anything I've read for a long time:-

"Enoch Powell proves that politics is no place for highly intelligent and well-read, cultured people. If you are mediocre, full of hypocritical hot air, have no prinicples or courage whatsoever and are willing to tell people what they want to hear whilst bribing them with policies that enrich them, you'll do well in politics. Just look at Obama or Blair. If you're highly brainy, educated, well-read, knowledgeable and have true vision, you won't - not in a 'democracy' anyway. Ho hum..."

And a plague on anyone who accuses me of not being optimistic enough about the future. What's there to be optimistic about?