What is Cameron thinking?

David

Er, way to miss the point. It's about Brown announcing a headline stealer, and then not following through. Which is the common theme running through the whole list.

davidm

(I realise that the document points to the fact that schools will have find £100 a pupil for the scheme.) . . . Explain yourself, Mr Cameron. I think you did that for him, stephen

Mike Wood

What's needed is for all schoolchidren to be educated about Auschwitz and other extermination camps as part of an understanding of the true significance of the holocaust. Sending a couple of pupils from each school to Auschwitz is just a gimmick. The ones who go will almost certainly be the ones who already understand this point. The Government, like so often, has chosen the headline grabbing measure as a substitute for taking real action to tackle an issue.

Herod

Cameron is useless. One amongst many useless members of the conservative parliamentry party. However even the most useless conservative can be right on occasion, and he is right about encouraging visits of school children to Auschwitz, a preposterous thing for Balls to spend money on. Will he now arrange trips to Rawanda, or perhaps some camps in Siberia (always supposing Putin will allow), Stalin did a much larger genocide, several times, or perhaps a visit to China where Mao outdid them all. The choice is enormous so why pick Auschwicz? Far better to stay home and settle down to study the present government's building of a new surveillance state and the abolition of democracy.

David

Although I see Labour have lept on the point. According to Lord Janner, the Jewish community is very hurt. No, it isn't. We aren't idiots.

Danielle

You have missed the point. The 'gimmick' is that the government were promising something they have not allocated enough funding for something they constantly accuse the conservatives of doing. Of course a trip to Auschwitz would be worthwhile for (in my view all) school kids and I honestly think you have taken this completely out of context and quite frankly need to get a grip.

Verity

I must say I also don't think this should be any part of a school curriculum, and certainly not be funded by schools. When they go on to university and if they are studying the history of the 20th Century, then yes, I would think a visit to Auschwitz might be very appropriate. But foisting these terrors and abnormalities on schoolchildren? It's too big a burden. And there are other genocides to consider, among them the slaughter that Pol Pot inflicted - the estimate is 12m. Admittedly, we in the West feel that what the Nazis perpetrated on the Jews is especially shocking because we all have Jewish friends and colleagues, and we are aware of the contribution the Jews have made to our civilisation. But I truly do not like this idea and think it's a continuation of Cameron's vapid, facile "hug a victim" mentality. I find Cameron as alarming as Brown. Different reasons, but the alarm bells ring at the same volume.

Mike Wood

I think Verity might have misread the post

Verity

I see now that it was Cameron who said it was a "gimmick" and I must say I agree - and this is no way to try to diminish the sheer scale of horror of what the Nazis perpetrated on the Jews. But it's a blatant bid for the Jewish vote, and I don't like this kind of politics. It's dishonest. (Now there's a surprise!) Apart from any other objections, Stephen, Auschwitz is not part of our history. It is German history. British children, until they are at least settled into a discipline at university, should be going on trips,if any, to Waterloo and other places where we have left our footprint. Please believe me - this is not a puerile attempt to be dismissive of the horrors of what the Nazis did. But paying for British schoolchildren to take trips to Auschwitz is, indeed, gimmicky and not at all appropriate and is an attempt to use the suffering of those poor people as a vote-getter. The more I think about it, the more disgusting it feels.

Tiberius

I agreed with you over the Archbishop, Stephen, but I think you need to draw breath over this one. You should not allow yourself a conclusion which the statement doesn't make.

Joshua

"Admittedly, we in the West feel that what the Nazis perpetrated on the Jews is especially shocking because we all have Jewish friends and colleagues" -- It is shocking for all kinds of reasons. It is shocking because the Nazis couldn't have achieved what they did without the almost total and willing collaboration not just of Germany and Austria but also virtually all of occupied Europe and the so-called neutral nations. It is shocking because both the UK and the US raised barely a finger to help the drowning Jews of Europe and in many ways actually prevented their escape. It is shocking because it happened in the heart of Europe. It is shocking because it was the culmination of many hundreds of years of hatred directed against the Jews by the gentiles of Europe. It is shocking because it was in many places almost as a complete a genocide as is possible. It is shocking because it was a large-scale industrialised slaughter. It is shocking because Europeans actively protected most of the murderers for many decades. It is shocking because virtually none of the vast amount of property that was stolen from the Jews who were murdered has been returned. It is shocking because few in Europe were or are truly sorry for what had happened. It is shocking because today anti-Semitism is still rampant in Europe and so many in America question the loyalty of Jews. It is shocking because the gentile world has learned almost nothing from its participation in what was in very many ways the worst genocide in history. It is shocking because the gentile world has averted its gaze even as a new Hitler has arisen to advocate the complete destruction of the Jewish state.

jonathan

"I realise that the document points to the fact that schools will have find £100 a pupil for the scheme. But anyone with half a brain would realise that an item with the headline 'Trips to Auschwitz' in amongst such other obvious headline gimmicks will - can - only be read as arguing that the trips themselves are a gimmick" Really? You really think that the only way this can be read is that the trips are gimmicks? How extraordinary.

Hamster

What's going on? The document is structured: 'promise' followed by 'reality'. For example, the first point is about community kitties - promise. They didn't happen - reality. Second point: funding for flooding. Again, it was promised. Reality - didn't happen as promsed. So when we get to Auschwitz the Conservative criticism comes in the line: • In fact schools would have to find £100 to fund every sixth-former’s trip (Times, 4 February 2008. Wake up, Stephen. According to the logic of yours and others criticism, funding for flooding is also being criticised as a bad idea in and of itself, not for the way it was delivered. The list quite clearly doesn't read that way.

Sharon

The gimmick is that Mr Brown is using this to gain some credibility amongst the electorate - where has he been for the rest of his life on this - probably didn't even know where Auschwitz was until yesterday - to that extent it is a gimmick, much like New Labour's perpetual phoney targets and its pretence at democracy when in fact it is becoming more and more dictatorial by the second - how many cameras did I hear watch our every move every second of the day? Ring any bells? There is much he can spend education money on to educate our children as to evils of history without yet another soundbite aim to attract attention away from his failures and sneaky policies to redistribute wealth and renationalisation!

Steve Andrew

I am not Tory sympathiser; actually I dislike many of their policies. However, here some people have miss the point as “David” said. David said that regardless of what Lord Janner said, Jewish community hasn’t hurt, “They are not idiots”. Even though I am not a Jew, I believe that. What’s wrong with some oversensitive Jews such as Stephen? At any political commend like Cameron’s or Ken Livingstone’s in the past, have to raise an anti-Semitism concern?

Jamie Dowling

Boy have you missed the point here. Big time. The point is that this Labour government has come out (again) with headline grabbing "promises" and failed to honour them. In other words, gimmicks. It's unparliamentary to say lies, so gimmicks seems to be a more acceptable word. Typical Labour fare to be honest. As has their reaction been - to avoid the issue completely and try to cover it up with spin and bluster. I see rent-a-quote Greville Janner has again leapt forward saying someone somewhere is offended that something about the Nazi regime has been mentioned. Come on Grev, I've been to Auschwitz. It's a deeply moving, often horrifying and very educational place but sending just two kids there doesn't really achieve that much: it's gesture politics of the worst sort. Stephen - try focusing your efforts on highlighting the surveillance society we are now in and getting more deeply mired in day by day rather than digging up semantic issues.

Huw Thornton

I have to say that this reminds me of the storm about the Archbishop's lecture. There's a statement on an emotive subject, furious condemnations, supporters referring back to the actual text, demands for apologies etc etc. Of course the storm is not justified by what the original statement says, but someone seeking to use publicity should be aware of how it can be twisted by opponents. .......but the good news is that if DC continues to be damaged by open goals which he creates, a golden future awaits him should he wish to take holy orders.

Huw Thornton

I have to say that this reminds me of the storm about the Archbishop's lecture. There's a statement on an emotive subject, furious condemnations, supporters referring back to the actual text, demands for apologies etc etc. Of course the storm is not justified by what the original statement says, but someone seeking to use publicity should be aware of how it can be twisted by opponents. .......but the good news is that if DC continues to be damaged by open goals which he creates, a golden future awaits him should he wish to take holy orders.

Lee Jakeman

Well, it IS a gimmick. The children are being sent to Auschwitz for the wrong reasons - i.e. political rather than educational or humanitarian.

Verity

Those children would be better employed studying British history, not German history. When they are adults, they may choose to visit Auschwitz and Dachau and Belsen - but this is not an apt outing for British schoolchildren. It is too agenda-laden, which is not what education is about. And as someone asked on another blog, "Do the Germans send school trips to Auschwitz?"

Max Kaye

I agree with Cameron that setting up a policy (like announcing school trips to Auschwitz (or, conversely, Disneyland) without providing the funding IS a gimmick.

I also agree with with Verity that school trips by British children to Auschwitz is not appropriate.

I say this as someone with a vested interest in ensuring that anti-semitism is eradicated whenever and wherever it is found. And, no, that prat Janner does not speak for me).

Verity

Lee Jakeman Well, it IS a gimmick. The children would have a "trip" to Auschwitz for the wrong reasons - i.e. political rather than educational or humanitarian. Also, Lee Jakeman, let's hammer this into the ground, there is no excuse for trying to nail this into the school programmes of the country that made incredible sacrifices to defeat the Nazis. Yes, the Americans were wealthy and wonderful, but we were right there on the doorstep. This is a strange new priority, to be sure. We were fighting Nazism, and made sacrifices for our own country. It was the insanity of Nazism that promoted hatred of the Jews on the European continent, and committed these horrendous crimes against them. God rest their souls. Few people have clear insights during adolescence, and the notion of sending emotionally developing young people to a scene of horrendous, unthinkable crimes against our fellow humans as a "school trip" is raving. Or so manipulative it makes the mind reel. As I said, people in university who are pursuing European History may want to go through this ghastly experience. But people bent on art? Medicine? Being an airline mechanic? A forced school trip? Why? To promote the new idea that we were "all guilty" in a pan-European socialist Valhalla. They creep ever closer. No. thanks.

Miv Tucker

Lord Janner can speak for himself, if he wishes (although I wish he would just shut up - his intellectual vacuity is simply embarrassing), but he emphatically does not speak for this Jew. I fully agree with Cameron - Brown's announcement reeks of gimmickry; and I fully agree with the other commenters here who say that these visits are not something that really belongs in the secondary school curriculum. I'm usually with you, Stephen, but I do think you're quite wrong this time.

Ian C

You are diplaying signs of unnecessary sensitivity rtaher than trying to understand the point Cameron was making. Janner, a political Jew, was bound to delibertaely misinterpret. You, an intelligent journalist who happens to be a Jew, should engage brain before typing and set emotion aside.

Michael Rosen

I am an educator on these trips and am actually going on one such trip to Auschwitz tomorrow with 200 students.

Insaying that this is indeed a gimmick becuase the school nsare being asked for £100 towards the cost, I am afraid that many of you miss the point.

These trips have been running for 9 years and until two years ago the Holocaust Educational Trust was only able to afford to organise two trips a year - base in London. Thanks to the Government, there were 9 trips last year and will be 15 this year - departing from all over the country. With the Government's help, over 2000 more students are able to go each year than previously.

Of course, there are a range of views on the educational value of a day visit to Auschwitz. Howevere, what is undeniable is the impact it makes on these studnets, and the follow up work that they do n their schools and communities to educate about the evils of xenophobia, racism and prejudice.

I am a Tory voter , and Lord knows there is much to criticise this government for. But this is something they have got right, and David Cameron has got very wrong. His attack is simply ignorant and makes me look at him in a very different light.