On its way

Richard

And the difference between Apple and Microsoft is...what?
The elitist snobs seem to think that paying through the nose for Apple products somehow makes them more "progressive"...

Derah Yasque

Richard.

There is nothing at all elitist in the desire to use equipment which gets a job done with the most effieciency.

Keep up the frugal struggle if that's what you're into.

The Chocolate Orange Inspector

Derah Yasque - What an extremely rude way to treat a fellow poster, given that he had said nothing hostile to you.

Derah Yasque

The Chocolate Orange Inspector.

'elitist snobs'?
Just a little undercurrent there maybe? Not inordinately offensive but I can't see as I upped things any.

And besides, my point remains: Apple machines work without having to cobble things together, and they keep on doing so for years. My mates go through about 3 unruly PCs for every one of my Macs.

Each breakdown time, they come round asking questions, making impressed noises, noting telephone numbers; then nip down to PC World and give Darren the commission he needs for his Shagaluf experience.

Chimps.

I'll stop there before I get truly waspish.

The Chocolate Orange Inspector

Derah Yasque - What is it about Apple fans that makes them such vicious bores?

Why do you people feel elevated because you bought a Mac?
You are not repositories of received wisdom. You are just people who made a consumer choice.

My vet inFrance had an Apple, but he seemed to think it was just a computer, not an object of worship. It seems to be Anglo men who have this needy obsession.

YOu snapped angrily and derisively at Richard, who had caused you no offence, because he does not share your taste in computers, for God's sake! Do you have any idea how infantile you people,in your clouds of self-generated glory, look to the rest of us?

Derah Yasque

The Chocolate Orange Inspector.

Let's do a deal: I'll promise actually to read what you write, and you do likewise?

Firstly, you assume I am male and that I am 'Anglo', and you let that form your picture of me. The relevance of either of which, I am struggling to fathom, but one of these assumptions, I assure you is in error.

I can snap angrily, but not over the choice of a computer. I agree, a computer is just a machine. But it must work very, very well is the thing. I just fail to see how it is snobbish and elitist to make sure I buy the best for my needs, and my exasperation at those who repeatedly shell out for rubbish is perfectly valid.

I can't understand the emotive way you're going on this.

I've got it. Inbetween tapping and unwrapping, you work at PC World don't you?

The Chocolate Orange Inspector

Derah Yasque writes: " I've got it. Inbetween tapping and unwrapping, you work at PC World don't you?"

These assumptions are erroneous. First, I have absolutely no idea what PC World is, although the way you refer to it, expecting to make a connection, it's clearly well-known; so I deduce it's a national chain of computer shops.

You must have made the unwarranted assumption that I live in Britain and am familiar with your shops.

John Swaine

I enjoy a good FlameWar as much as the next person but I think this one ought to cease.

Richard made a comment intimating that people buy Apple products to feel superior.

Derah noted that it was more out of a desire to use a well designed product and then suggested that not paying for that design was akin to frugality.

Then TCOI stepped in with an oddly sharp (and I feel somewhat unwarranted) upbraiding of Derah. I don't think Derah's comment re: frugality was accurate but I can't say it was extremely rude.

I can understand where you're coming from TCOI because whenever (as is the nature of forum-based communication) someone starts a post with "NAME." it can only be read as being astonishingly condescending. Like an adult trying to capture a child's attention before a stern talking to.

That said I'm not sure Derah deserved your censure in the first place.

John Backhouse

I design and sell software for the web, which is in heavy commercial use by several thousands of users the world over.
Without exception, for me, the biggest problems occur with Macs. Not because I don't understand them, nor because other people have "proprietary operating systems" (as though Mac were not proprietary) but because they do not quickly adapt to the ever-changing world of commerce and interoparability.
Sure, if you want to make designs and send 'em to people, I have no doubt the Mac is superior. (The hundreds of Mac users I deal with do just this thing.) The problem comes when Mac tries to talk to UNIX, Linux & Windows. This is all the more astonishing considering the parentage of the current Mac operating systems but we'll let that past, shall we?

Verity

Well, John Swaine, now that you've stepped into the ring,I will point out that mine was actually a blanket condemnation of Apple bores - not Derah in particular. Not only do they think they're an elevated form of life, but they think up picky little put-downs for people not on their level of sainthood. As in the suggestion that I work in Computer World - evidently, since he seemed confident that I would recognise it and be insulted, a downmarket chain of computer shops in Britain. So his little moment of triumph fell flat. Also, it was quite unfair to any bloggers who do actually work in Computer World. At least they're earning a living and paying their way. (I am not suggesting that Derah is not. I just think it is unfair to mock someone for being employed in a less than grandiose retail establishment.)

Derah Yasque

John Swaine.

(No condescension intended here BTW, it's just handy as a label for responding I find)

Anyway, now see what you've done! Thanks for the peacemaking attempt though. I just can't believe how a little flippancy has managed to cause so much of a thrombie.

Verity.

Do I take it you are TCOI? No probs for me that. I use whatever daft name takes my fancy. 'Derah Yasque' is merely this week's silly nom de blog.

What's up with you going all PC on this PC World thing though? Hell mockery? I'm a council worker, that's way down there with estate agents, double glazing salesmen and the PM. I should have been reduced to the foetal position by now if we are all going to get sensitive about such remarks.

It's called banter, craic, cajolery, and it's not always appropriate but here we are mulling the efficacy of brands of plastic machines.

Richard.

Did you take offence?

Derah Yasque

John Backhouse.

Firstly, I won't pretend to have anything like your knowledge of computers.

I started using Macs in '88 in desperation at being forced to learn all sorts of cumbersome operating routines by the system which was at the time considered 'mainstream'.

Over the years, especially with the advent of the GUI of MS, I have looked at that system and found it each time to be, although improved, still trailing in its attempts to do what Macs do, namely, provide techno dullards with the ergonomic means to access and apply the power of the computer in order to get stuff done.

My 'stuff' is the stuff done on the vast majority of machines. The Mac sits on the landing and does basics like blogging, emails, scanning and tarting up photo's, writing letters and forms, a little low level calculation and, most importantly, saving me from having to visit supermarkets.

Never, ever does it crash whereas the PCs of friends are always playing up.

UNIX Linux windows etc it's all I'm sure very high-end relevant but way out beyond what I need to get involved with, and my needs are very typical. Why would I need to talk with these systems? The only requirement in that way is to send/receive email from windows users, and that works with never a problem.

I'm not up with events in the field, never was, but I find it difficult to believe that Macs are still to be considered as mere woofter design/graphics handling machines?