Those who are left

jon dee

A sad and beautifully written piece which I feel sure mirrors the thoughts of many of us, whose only meeting with the Thorneloes was through the dignified stoicism of their televised image. A brave family indeed.

The drama of Wootton Bassett and it's kindly cast, deserves not only our thanks, but the highest possible recognition for the respect they show to the fallen. At a time when honours are dispersed like confetti, often for vain and dubious reasons, their form of service is obvious to all, and meaningful.

Perhaps when politicians realise that their war rhetoric is disbelieved widely by the electorate, they'll pack-up their posturing and see that Afghanistan follows Iraq along a misguided trail.

Beer Moth

Agree with almost all of this.

Unfortunately we have no choice about this war, and there is lots more to come. And when the European phase of that same war is opened, our wonder will be only that we didn't pursue our enemy more vigorously.

wrinkled weasel

It's a part of life that words barely do justice, but you did so, and thank you.

Austin Barry

"They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for ones country. But in modern war there is nothing sweet nor fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason."

Ernest Hemingway - Notes on the Next War

Augustus

"To die one's self is a thing that must be easy and light of consequence. But to lose a part of one's self - well, we know how deep that pang goes, we who have suffered that disaster, received that wound that cannot heal."

David Preiser

British troops have given their lives in Afghanistan in part because 30 people from my street were murdered on Sept. 11, 2001 by the people trying to regain control of that country. I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you, but my neighbors would beg to differ.

Anthony Lenaghan

A wonderful, moving piece. Thank you for reminding us that the stiff upper lip has not vanished beneath the sea of hysterical modern comment.

SUSAN HILL

David Preiser. I hear what you are saying but were those who murdered your neighbours confirmed as coming from Afghanistan ? The number of our military lost in that country far outnumbers those civilians and we seem no further forward, that is all. I am no pacifist and if I was confident the people our soldiers were fighting were those who had caused 9/11 it would be different - I am not and I wonder who is ?

Cuffleyburgers

Moving and beautifully written, this corner of the speccie at least will be forever England

oliver

Yes, Susan Hill. The 9/11 gang came mostly from Saudi Arabia, of course. Which is why I find the notion, parroted meaninglessly by Gordon Brown, that the Afghanistan campaign is somehow saving us from terrorism on our streets, to be awkward and tendentious. You get the feeling that he doesn't believe it, even as he says it.

Unfortunately, the question as to where the threat truly emanates is difficult to discuss, given that it is so awful and intractable. Yes, it is as likely to come from High Wycombe as from Helmland, from Luton rather than Kandahar - a road to hell that has been paved by the (one supposes) good intentions of the Labour government.

David Preiser

Susan Hill,

I see that I was careless with my words. Yes, it's true that nearly all the actual hijackers on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia and Egypt. They were merely the foot soldiers of jihad directed by, paid for, and trained by Al Qaeda, who were at the time based in Afghanistan and supported by the Taliban. All the mass murderers involved were trained in Afghanistan, under the protection of the Taliban.

The Taliban were asked to hand them over back then, but refused, and the US and UK invaded Afghanistan to remove Al Qaeda, especially the leaders. The Taliban protected them, and continue to do so under the aegis of defending their country. Which, you may recall, they ruled via a not exactly democratic takeover. It's also important to remember that originally they were basically one and the same, having fought together as one against the Soviets years before. It's easy to forget that these days.

As far as I can tell, your position is that the Taliban were and are not connected in any way to Al Qaeda, and allowing them to control much or all of Afghanistan will not lead to the restoration of an Al Qaeda's stronghold in Afghanistan. There is no logical reason for you to assume this, and history shows otherwise, as do current events in Pakistan. Nor is there any logical reason to assume that if there was no invasion back then that Al Qaeda would not have continued business as usual, encouraged by their success. But I respect your right to have that opinion, even as I would hope to change it.

However, it is also possible that you do not believe that Al Qaeda was responsible for 9/11. If that's the case, you must disagree with the invasion of Afghanistan, full stop, never mind the current military action there. This also begs the question of whom you do hold responsible for 9/11.

One hopes that you don't deny the existence of video - broadcast by the BBC, among other non-Fox News outlets - of Osama Bin Laden and his cohorts claiming responsibility for it, or the existence of the communications and personal belongings of the hijackers themselves which contain their own confessions and instructions to one another.

I can only ask: whom do you think we are fighting, and why do you think there is no connection to 9/11?

SUSAN HILL

I don`t honestly know enough about the whole Taliban/Al Qaeda/Bin Laden scenario - I don`t think I said there was no connection to 9/11 - if I implied that, it was my mistake. I just wonder why we are there fighting a war of attrition which, in terrain like that, we can probably never win. If the Soviets were defeated by it, I can`t see that we will succeed. But I bow to your much better knowledge of the whole situation.