Status Anxiety

Anxiously stable

Now, now Toby. Even though your Telegraph column did indeed attract an unusual amount of vitriol (even for you), the main complaint was that media personalities shouldn't whinge about the sheer hard graft it takes to be appear in a widely-ignored TV culinary challenge series.
There's quite a lot of us out here who do enjoy your work (not the TV stuff, obviously) but then we also thoroughly admire you're ability to get under the skin of the vast majority of literate Englishmen. Keep it up!

ian skidmore

A real nwspaperman would be relieved that anyone had read his piece and that anyone who did not like it ws wrong.

Rory

Know thyself! Journalists are perhaps on a macro scale precisely the commentators you describe, the eunuchs in a brothel, standing on the sidelines of life shouting and raving, issuing bold opinions on the health service but not having the dedication to become doctors; holding forth on matters of law but without the necessary degrees; issuing tomes on the advancement of science with, at best, Cs in GCSE maths; but perhaps most sinister of all: influencing the course of nations without the authority of the people. Back seat drivers cannot drive!

Any chance of a job?

Canon Alberic

Actually the vast majority of comments on the sites I visit are complimentary about the original writers and engage in thoughtful debate rather than abuse. The Guardian is, of course, produced by and for students so its no surprise that CIF is full of juvenile abuse.

Do you think perhaps that its just that Toby is'nt very good at what he does? I would also have thought that using your column to attack and patronise those who do actually read your prose is not going to help.

Austin Barry

Message from Austin Barry:

It is churlish to suggest that we make comments just to see our names, like mine, Austin Barry, in print.
Sincerely

Austin Barry

James Allen

They're probably right though. Most of the stuff written in newspapers / magazines is pretty worthless in the long-run. Journos simply don't have the time to do enough research or the perspective to sit back and observe things as they really are. Just take Fraser Nelson's column today...

cats whispers

I always suspect journos secretly comment on their own articles to make themselves look like a hub of national debate..!

E J Taylor

Up yours baldy.

Andy H

If you write something that is agreeable then no one notices. It is always controversial content that will provoke people to comment. And therein lays the problem. The author’s ego wants them to be noticed as it is better to be disagreed with then ignored.

Matthew Blott

@ Canon Alberic

To be fair to Cif, unlike other sites, it allows all posts to be printed and only removes the most abusive after complaints. I've tried to post criticisms of writers on both the Daily Mail and Times Online sites and have had these rejected for no apparent reason (I am always curteous and do not engage in personal abuse). It seems you can post as long as it's what the editors agree with.

cat osb

I like your articles; they make me laugh.

cuffleyburgers

Agreed that the Grauniad's CIF pages attract the most yobbish borderline fascistic commenters.

I rarely stray much beyond the speckled 'tater nowadays, where a man of my temper finds imself in his element.

Ian London

Why don't you create an imaginary journalist who writes your pieces for you? Then you can distance yourself from the criticism in the knowledge that it is your alter-ego getting rubbished.

It worked for that woman in the Archers.

Fergus Pickering

No, no, young Toby. I don't want to be a hack. You're OK - for a hack. We read you with our toast and marmalade. Then we forget you. That's what you're FOR, don't you know. Disposable opinions. What you need to hone up on are your jokes. Look at Boris now. That man does jokes. Also runs London of course. I'll bet Ken Livingstone can write a neat column. You know the fellow. Used to run London. Now what exactly is it that YOU do. When you're not writing columns I mean. What's your SERIOUS occupation? Novels, is it? Are you as good as J.L. Carr? He was a primary school headmaster for twenty years. Pretty good, by all accounts. And wrote a mean novel. Six mean novels actually.

Ian C

There are two clear messages in this:

1) Alot of blog-posters are scribblers with nothing better to do so they abuse the commentariat and

2) The commentariat attract abuse.

If it is not funny and/or does not usefully add to the debate it needs leaving out, either by the site operator or the reader. A sensitive journo who reads all that is posted has not got a proper job.

Sean Gallagher

I have long enjoyed Toby Young's writing.His reportage of small children is real as opposed to idealised.I am as a result surprised at his sensitivity.Surely if you tell it as it is you can take it when others tell it as it may not be.

Paul B

‘What a load of self-interested tripe,;-)

Sarah

Hilarious! Sucked in EJ Taylor.

Philipa

Well now Mr Young, I just have to comment on this one whereas I normally wouldn't unless feeling very upset and wanting to register that opinion. I haven't read the articles you're on about but saw you on TV last night and was struck by how sweet you are with your family. It's always warming to see a happy family in action. There is something about that dynamic that can warm others lives a little like a neighbours fire at Xmas. And I have recorded praise when moved enough to do so. But the feelings caused by the piece have to be remarkable enough to make me bother.

If I was a journalist I would have Peter Hitchens' job thanks - he gets sent around the world on the MoS expense account, with staff. And lets face it - anyone who spends their life commenting on these things really should get out more ;-)

THX1138

Agreed but columnists can be very horrid about each other too.

In the last few weeks I have read Stephen Pollard wish death on Teddy Kennedy & George Monbiot & call India Knight & Yasmin Alibhai-Brown the most horrible names.

I thought the name of the game was to loose friends & alienate people otherwise why be a columnist.

After I have chucked away all those useless inserts, (I rip open the plastic over the bin) your the first thing I turn to when my Speccie comes through the letter box.

MD Atkinson

Toby, I like your stuff. Clearly, adverse comment doesn't spoil your lunch. Nor let it ruin your breakast.

steve edgar

i've never heard of toby young

Saif Rahman

I think most people wanted to point out that Toby Young is self-regarding, pompous and intellectually idle; but out of politeness avoided a direct ad hominem attack with a critique on his writing.

JohnA

Toby, your articles work when they do what it says on the tin: quirkily noting one's own quotidian urban angst. When you descend to genuine neurosis - as here - it's dead boring. Rise above it, ignore them: don't read any readers' comments if you want to stay sane.

Richard M

You have opinions and get paid to write about them. Your detractors have opinions but couldn't write to save their lives; their only recourse is to insult you in order to demonstrate to the rest of us how much better they would be if only they had an ounce (28.3 grams) of talent. Ignore them all and have a good breakfast.

Robert in Palm Harbor

Considering the alternatives, prosaic anger is not so bad. You could be suffering the fate of Charles I! Think how far we've come lad. Why only 'yesterday' Cromwell would have put you in jail for publishing anything.

Take the long view, two doses of humor and call me in the morning.

Paul Perry

Upsetting people isn't the problem. Everyone does that.
The question is, are you upsetting the RIGHT people?

Victoria

I really like your writing. Based on what you went through in New York, (and elsewhere) you must have very thick skin, so , surprised you take any criticisms seriously. I couldn't do it, but then I'm a delicate flower. Through you, I can enjoy vicariously the life of someone who isn't, someone who isn't afraid to get himself into, (and out of) what would be for me, terrible and messy situations (not to mention 4 children).

Alice

I take great pleasure from reading the readers' comments and think this is a very worthwhile addition to the press as we can gauge what our fellow Brits are feeling/thinking. I must say that over the past six months the comments have become more and more vitriolic and the air of frustration more and more palpable. I think this can be correlated with the Shakespearian tragedy that is unfolding before our eyes. So, don't take it too seriously Toby, it is a sign of the times. Just feel pleased you are not Gordon Brown. Imagine how he must feel if he ever gets to read the press.

M McGregor

I think the reason for so much vitriol amongst readers' comments is pretty obvious. Several decades ago
'differences of opinion' were rather mild. Apart from a tiny number of hardly noticed political and social revolutionaries and general outcasts, and the occasional old gentlemen who wrote furiously to The Times on a variety of issues, everyone was in basic accord about how life should be conducted.

We've progressed from disagreeing on how many times young adults should go out before holding hands, to considering an option of supplying 12-year-olds with contraceptives in case they feel like indulging; from doubtfully accepting the occasional rather dark (and probably Catholic !) Spaniard or Greek moving into our area, to being expected to approve as entire English cities are transformed into parts of Asia or Africa, and awaiting our fate as an Islamic Republic ; from frowning at the child who is slow to obey a parental command, to having to witness numerous adults ineffectually pleading with (or totally ignoring) kicking, screaming, swearing toddlers; from seriously believing that 'crime doesn't pay' and viewing the police as wholly admirable in their smartness, efficiency, and staunch solidatity with the decent citizen, to knowing that honesty doesn't pay, and the police are increasingly scruffy,
petty, incompetent, and utterly obsessed with 'political correctness'; from teaching our children to admire great explorers, soldiers, scientists and artists, to having the media champion ignorant, foul-mouthed, petulent, drunken, drug-sodden entertainers to the top of the list of suitable role-models; from having marriage, fidelity, and the family as the core of our society, to having that institution equated with people casually producing illegitimate children, and now co-habiting homosexuals; from being shocked at a bank robbery to being entirely unmoved by a constant flood of the most hideous murders.

Add to that the pressures & frustrations of our modern world, and how can anyone be surprised that disagreements are often so bitter, and so ill-mannered ?

Philipa

PS: I'd just like to add that I don't normally watch such stuff on TV. I sat through 'Richard and Judy' to see what Boris had to say and the entire programe was torture. But I will now read your work, Mr Young: "Clarkson and Monbiot are the same"? Hmm, thrilling. They both pale in comparison to Christopher Hitchens. CH has written really excellent articles about fellatio and getting his sack waxed. Could you?

Ben

People write abusively on the net (emails too) as a first, ill considered, partly anonymous reaction. It is one downside of the otherwise amazing internet. We should all take more care!

David Horton-Smith

If you want to see really barmy comments look at the response to some Daily Telegrah articles; anti-Semitism is the least of it. I gave up the DT because I did not want anyone to think that I was another headbanger! And many are totally illiterate.

Harold Helbock

The problem is that you are writing for the chronically appalled of the nutty left. Try a more sane group.

Robert Brokenmouth

C'mon, either enjoy your job or quit. Toby, just because we who love your work (apart from the TV, but please persevere) don't write to tell you, it doesn't mean we don't love you. Like a big family, we'd only realise how much we'd miss you if you stopped...mind you, we'd only realise it about 5 months later - 'Whatever happened to that bald bloke?' 'What bald bloke? Clive James?' 'No, the other one. Toby something.' 'You can get a Toby Jug at the market, I saw one the other day...'
So you see, Toby, you simply must continue. Stiff upper lip, old crumpet.
By the by, if you were to chart the negative commenters, I reckon you'd find a large percentage are serial complainers; without an organ to bang on to, there's not a lot of purpose to them. 'I am what I am not', yeah? It's only when the complainer is someone who doesn't usually complain that you really have to think about it.
But only until lunch.

Deipnosophist

Well, I think what is frightening is how angry and abusive people become immediately they can do it anonymously - as if all the burden of being polite to people in real life has left a desperate need to lash out at any innocent victim once they get a chance. The level of abuse and smug superiority you see on ANY internet forum, comments on articles, etc, often makes me wonder whether I want to share a planet with these people. But, I'm a historian, so seeing the true nature of human beings is always useful.

Anthony

It is surely only human-nature to want to comment on ideas? - even by those who journalists would regard with contempt. The internet offers a much easier and greater scope for 'head-butting' - and believe me it does feel like that at times when you are trying to politely challange a journalist on his or her views. The Internet offers a less laborious and much more immediate means of response than the business of letter writing.

The difference between journalists and the mass of readers/listeners etc is that the former are privileged enough to get get their opinions and ideas into print and as a result have a huge impact. They can talk to millions wheras each one of 'us millions' can only respond each in our individual way - even those without the privilege of a good edxucation.

Julian Stein

I couldn't agree with you more. I vowed never to comment ever again after my first comment to the Spectator resulted in an incredibly vitriolic response from another commenter. I could not understand how someone could be so angry just because I had stated my opinion.

J.J.

Hmmm, and I always admired you for not giving a shizzle - and letting the flak bounce off your bald head.

Cosmo

Can't believe someone as great as Julie Burchill used to like you.

Robert Morgan

Right, I am writing this without having read any of the previous comments, so if I mirror anybody else's comments then that is a coincidence!
I smells a bit like you are fishing for compliments, Toby old chum. And quite rightly so.
I enjoy your column and understand that journalism can be a fairly thankless job, not to mention quite frustrating too, seeing as everybody seems to have a bloody opinion on everything these days.
But do not despair, so long as you are being read and being published you are half-way there, it's when you can no longer think of anything worth writing about that you need to really start worrying!

WJ Mitchell

This article highlights an important problem that I have long dwelt on - the quality of our online 'debates' is degraded by the anonymity the internet affords. The principle of free speech was intended to protect those who were willing to put their names (and hence reputations) behind their words - like columnists. Pseudonymous and anonymous arrangements encourage lazy, one-sided and ad hominem attacks, as evidenced by the feeling of being soiled that is inspired in one after trawling through a typical comments board.

How courageous do we expect journalists to be? Most of us would be collapse in a nervous heap if we daily had to endure a tirade of professional (not to mention personal) abuse from complete strangers.

Peter Hirsch

Mr Young, your theory is correct. The motivation for vitriol is envy: envy of your fees, envy of your exposure, envy of your fame; envy, even, of the cartoon of you, unshaven and toad-like.

I am surprised you put up with it!

Er, good article. Enjoyed it; and looking forward to your next one.

Happy now?

Smugly

Or could the reader genuinely be insulted by the lame opinions of 'opinion makers'? Your theory - a lot of them are frustrated journalists and, as such, they are angry about the fact that it is you who is being paid to air your opinions and not them - is, how can I put it, poor at best. I get paid for writing, too, and find that substance comes before style. Not that I'm accusing you of that, either.

mike19

I think you may be a little out of touch. It just may be to do with the 'democratic deficit' in this country, the stifling dishonest political/ msm establishment scam that perpetuates an increasingly corrupt and totalitarian state. The deconstruction of our identity our nation our people, and no sign of anyone with common sense or the wish to represent the majority population.
Frustrated yes, angry yes, VERY, but a wanna-be journo? You must be joking.

John Leake

Quite honestly, Toby, I'm astonished - and pleased - you read the comments at all. I don't imagine most people moaning on comments pages actually expect to be read by the author of the article, and are more venting their spleen for the benefit of other onliners.

I'm sure columnists will always get more hostile responses as they are, after all, presenting their information as voiced opinions rather than employing a more apparently 'objective' discourse - and we all see ourselves as capable of voicing opinions...

Don't let 'em get you down!

Alide Kohlhaas

You shouldn't let negative comments bother you. Journalists have been getting those ever since newspapers existed. It goes with the territory.

Cheer up. If you want to write and be read, then take the nasty notes with a pinch of salt and a spoonful of honey. It's better that way. Smile!!!

Philipa

Half the time we're just having a laugh or bored stiff.

Like now.
And then..

Ariel

Never mind, Tobes, old son ; some of us still love yer!
And we actually enjoy reading your pieces. So there!

Stephen Schwartz

I fully sympathize with the complaint of Toby Young about the gross rudeness and self-importance of people who write in the comment sections of online columns. Several respectable journals decline to include such spaces, which some of us refer to us as 'comment sewers.'

Newspaper letters columns were traditionally edited, unlike many of the 'sewers.'

The insults that proliferate online I blame, in large part, on a certain Jeff Bezos, creator of the Amazon online book retailing business, who was inspired to offer an opportunity for anybody who bought a copy of a book to write and post a review of it, regardless of qualifications. The entire problem is an expression of the fallacy created by computer ownership, by which purchase of an item of technology is considered to equal possession of intelligence and education. The supposed democratisation of opinion has led to nothing more than its degradation. This phenomenon is, I regret to say, especially visible in Western discussion of Islam.