Why has the word ‘grandmother’ been banned by the Guardian?

Anon

Any chance the Marxists are deconstructing the English language, as well as the rest of our culture? Why else: declare much of vocabulary obsolete; render large portions meaningless; and regulate the thought process so as to exclude any freedom of expression or interpretation! I wonder if they have a new word for euphemism - though maybe not: it's not English based.

I'm sure all the french phrases you use are eminently better than anything English, though, Rod - they're bound to approve of that.

Of course, analysis of the texts that transmit their theory - presumably in translation - reveals a preponderance of style over substance: of claptrap, in fact. Whether it's that bad in the original languages is something I'm not prepared to explore!

I don't know what I'm supposed to call Calcutta, now...but again, don't tell me. I rather like my ignorance: that way I can remember the place I visited in the past. Mind you, it was all cracked marble splendour; piles of sacks on the pavements that, when you fell over them, turned out to be covering people; and rioters running through hotels. However, maybe I shouldn't express that truth about free and independent Calcutta!

Austin Barry

I'm surprised that they haven't proscribed "The Guardian" given its unfortunate connotations of abject idiocy - er, sorry, profound mental health issues.

Kim Plumtree

Social workers are not meiocre and useless, OK?

Dave Burns

Ministry of Truth (Newspeak: Minitrue)
The propaganda arm of Oceania's regime, controlling information: news, entertainment, education, and the fine arts. Winston Smith works for the Records Department (RecDep) of Minitrue, "rectifying" historical records and newspaper articles to make them conform to Big Brother's most recent pronouncements, thus making everything that the Party says true.
1984.

Is the use "Oceania" a subtle hint that the Guardian would like to be the Ministry of Truth?

Ken Bishop

You get a bit carried away here, Rod. Describing Poland as "central" Europe is nothing to do with political correctness, but with geographical correctness. Look at a map. You could even make a reasonable argument for allocating Poland to western Europe.

George

They've deconstructed the country so why would they stop at the language?

It's all about mind control. The paper is full of rants at the word 'chav', saying it is about class. But it's not, it's just that The Guardian wants a class war, otherwise it's lost another reason to moan. Chavness is to do with vulgarity and show-offishness, and you can do that no matter what your income.

All that, Rod, and you didn't even get to them banning the word 'actress', which led to this confusion in an obituary:

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/004177.html

The truth is, of course, that this newspaper's influence punches well above its weight. How so? The ad pages.

If you want to know why your taxes are so high - and David Cameron made the point about how much the government spends on advertising - an awful lot of taxpayer money ends up in the hands of The Guardigroan via all the public sector job ads it carries.

So you can add that to the Home Office's lunacy of 'How do we stop kids knifing each other?' 'We'll make an ad about it.' That'll work.

There is simply no reason to use taxpayers' money spent on page after page of public sector job ads to fill the coffers of a newspaper that made a loss last year of circa £24 million.

All those job ads belong on the websites of the councils and quangos and other public sector organisations they are for, where they wouldn't cost the taxpayer a penny.

The government, though, wants to have a media tool with which to assist its politically correct agenda and so has always smiled on this cosy boosting of revenue for The Guardian and the effect it also inevitably has on its circulation. None of this is accidental.

Here we are with the public finances a shambles, but why aren't all these public sector job ads pulled instantly and pooled on a central government-owned internet site (or sites), or just advertised on the site of the organisation in question at a fraction of the cost?

Because this has nothing to do about value for money for the taxpayer and everything to do with using circulation based on people reading ads to get the maggoty editorial ideas into more people's heads.

David Short

I wonder what the junior adults produced by the people who came out of her womb, in association with their partners, 'address' Polly Toynbee?

David Short

The best way to learn how to pronounce the English language 'as she is spoke' is to listen to the Today programme, and opt for the alternative pronunciation.

eunice

u r all toffs, as a Black woman & Social Worker u dont understand a thing, the guardian is a good paper,just because ur posh Henry's and Caroline's cant get social work jobs does'nt mean we dont do a good job, who else would take children from thier homes and fathers (rapists),just think what it would bike like without us

Abdul Alhazred

I must take issue with Rod Liddle on the Mexico question.

Mexico has been considered part of North Amenrica all along, at least in the USA. Not part of Central America (which is a region of North America), and certainly never part of South America.

Maybe the expression you are looking for is "Latin America"?

Kram Ekosum

Rod, brilliant as ever. I consider myself libertarian but Orwell is the only author who should be forced down kids throats! Ken Bishop - I think you have missed the point here....

James Currin

Wasn't it your excellent poet, Housman, who wrote:

With rue my heart is laden,
for all the friends I had.
For many a hare-lipt maiden
and many a club-foot lad.

rod liddle

Umm............is Eunice for real, or is it a joke?

robert

If the Guardian wants to carry out thought-control experiments, fine. But as george comments, why should WE have to fund it?

David Short

I think Eunice is taking the p**s but Guardian readers are so stupid and blinkered, it could be for real.

Forlornehope

There is a long history of pejorative words being replaced by a "correct" alternative for a group of low social status. The new word inevitably, then, becomes a pejorative; it is the social status of the group that is the issue not the word itself. The simplest example is the word "Negro". Attempting to eliminate these is likely to be a Sisyphian task, though in some cases, perhaps, a worthy one?

Andrew

The Style Guide's actually quite sensible. The word "grandmother" hasn't been "banned"; it's just discouraged unless relevant.

The point being to avoid sentences like "How this 55-year-old granny came to earn $25m a year", which implies that being female, and having had children who themselves have gone on to give birth, should automatically make you less likely to be rich.

It's worth a read.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide/page/0,,184844,00.html

Not Even Likely

Have to agree with Abdul about Mexico being considered part of North America. The US considers it to be part of North America - basically you have North America and you have South America. Continentally speaking, you have to pick one, and since they are above the Panama Canal, they are North.

The US is touting its new scheme for travel "within North America" - which to them means Mexico, Canada, and the Caribbean. The requirement for US travelers to these areas to have (for the first time ever) passports, has been so onerous, they are coming out with an ID card good for travel in just those neighboring areas. Which, er, getting back to the point, is considered North America.

DJT

i'm a bachelor living in the province of northern ireland (tho must say i prefer women, career or otherwise to active homosexuals...) so there!

Danielle

I was born in Belfast, so if I'm not from "the province of Northern Ireland", where exactly am I from? Ulster? Too politically loaded. The 'other' Ireland? No. Eire? Um, no. I guess I'll just be British for now then. *rolls eyes at Guardianista idiocy*

C.M. Pickett.

It took me a while to accept the title "grandmother" inferring,I thought, the banana skin descent,extreme decrepitude and mauve.Eventually the realisation came upon me that it actually had nothing to do with my wishes and a lot more to do with what my children were doing.I am still vertical,and as wise as all get outand I'm not going to go through it all again!
I object to "Oceania"which is my place of happy habitation ,sounding as it does,like blobs in the surf.Guardian journalists pride themselves on correct word usage or political correctness in which order?
Long live Liddle !

Roger Carr

"The Style Guide's actually quite sensible."
Nice point, Andrew... although it has not spoiled my enjoyment of Rod's story.

Patrick Dowd

Apropos to the grandmothers, daughters comments. Although I am pro-choice on the abortion issue, I detect much resentment (envy?) on the part of women that have opted for the childless life style. Referring in some cases to the mothers, grandmothers’ etc as "breeders", very nice. This seems to have been exemplified by the Sarah Palin nomination in the states.
I fear our education system (US anyway) has completely let us down, something as simple as the concept behind “a rose by any other name” has been lost in a sea of newspeak.

Richard L. Kent, Esq.

"It is a beautiful thing, the destruction of words." - 1984

Patrick

The book that came with the Guardian said:
"grandparent
Mention this status only when relevant: leave "battling grannies" and similar examples of ageism and sexism to the tabloids; in particular we should avoid such patronising drivel as "How this 55-year-old granny came to earn $25m a year" "
It does not ban the use of the word grandmother as suggested by the headline.

Redman

I for one am offended by the UK pronunciation of tomato (tah MAH toe). The tomato plant is native to the Americas, and the UK pronunciation is an offensive reminder of their former colonization. In the future please use the indigenous pronunciation (toe MAY toe) in all communication and broadcasts.

Brita

Actually Redman, many Americans are aware that English is the language of the Brits, and those US Citizens agree that we should speak it as we please.

Just because even Britain no longer belongs to us is no reason why foreigners should tell us how to speak our own tongue.

Furthermore, there's also an argument, somewhere, that those of you who remained in the US are the colonists. Present-day Brits descended from the ones who came home and left you to it.
Subsequent immigrants have just climbed in on the backs of the colonists.

So: if, as your name might suggest, you have Native American genes - then kindly remember that you speak the language of the colonists and their add-ons, not that of the indigenous British.

Finally, you have my word that I will never knowingly commit the ugly mish-mash of noises that Americans presume to call English.

Anon 2

I logged into the Guardian thing and hadn't the patience to go beyond "a."

What's the Guardian reckon it's guarding, anyway? Why do they force us to read and write in disgusting euSSR measurements instead of ACRES?

If the publishers and newspapers would stand up with us, then maybe we could all start to ignore the toads over the water.

Roger Mortimer

And where does it end? This is like any other cultural revolution - whatever terms are PC now Guardianistas will consider beyond the pale (if we can still say that...) in a few years timew and replaced by something even sillier. "Half caste" becomes "mixed race" becomes "dual heritage" and probably by now something else.

Oh, and Kim Plumtree, I object to the term "social worker" because it implies that people in other jobs are less social...

http://www.brusselswatch.org

Roger Mortimer

Eunice's comment is an absolute gem, but I wish I could be certain it was a parody - I think all too many people with Guardianista jobs think exactly that way (and express themselves that inarticulately). "Who else would take children from their homes..." Well, what a sense of satisfaction that must give you at the end of a tough day! And why are comments about fathers being rapists acceptable, when you can't even mention someone being a grandmother?

"Think what it would be like without us..." Hmm, let's see - we'd have a lot more money because taxes wouldn't be wasted on meaningless public sector jobs, and we wouldn't have to worry about our children being prised from their families in Khmer Rouge style social experiments... am I close?

A. MacAulay

A quick Social Worker joke which is patently unfair, rude and lacking in kindness and understanding, probably panders to right-wing susceptibilties, is in no way pc and actually quite funny.

2 Social Workers go for a stroll and find a bloody and bruised victim of senseless street violence lying whimpering in the gutter. Says SW 1, "Look at that, that's terrible!" SW 2 answers, "Yes, whoever did that deperately needs our help."

bill40

Tom-Art-O. case closed.

Kim Plumtree

To Roger Mortimer: well, at least my Christian name - sorry, first name - is nice and sexless - sorry, genderless - unlike YOURS with its connotations of male (boo, hiss) power - sorry, empowerment....

http://www.therockalltimes.co.uk/2004/07/12/dull-uk.html

eunice

to Roger mortimer fathers are rapists not mothers and i never said you cant say grandmother, there no need being sarcastic about the kehmr rouge

Kim

Sorry to disappoint all you people getting over-excited about "guardianistas" and "political correctness" but here's a perfectly sensible reply to Liddle's column - which points out, inter alia, that The Guardian hasn't banned the word "grandmother":

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/06/pressandpublishing1

David Short

kim, what a spoilsport you are....

We still don't like Guardianistas, though...

Bill

Is 'hare lip' verboten because it is offensive to hares? And what about 'hare brained', which seems to describe the Guardian's usage rules quite well?

Ken Bishop

Goodness me, how angry Spectator readers get. And we clearly enjoy our recreational outrage every bit as much as lefties do. Have we really got it into our heads that words are being banned? (They aren't, Anon. We can all say whatever we like; but the Guardian, like most publications, has a style guide for its own writers) How can Brita allege that foreigners are telling us how to speak our language? (They aren't, although it's striking how many British people freely choose to imitate the Americanisms that Brita so pointlessly insults). Rod got a bit carried away in objecting to Poland being described as "central Europe" (that's where it is), but such overenthusiasm is pardonable. And then "Anon 2" chimes in with a totally irrelevant (and obviously untrue) whinge about metrication. Champagne for the brain, like real champagne, might seem to be impeding rational thought.

Kim

Well, quite, Ken. And if people read the piece I linked to, with the subsequent comments, they'll discover that the reason terms like "hare lip" and "Siamese twins" aren't recommended in the style guide is because they aren't the terms used by the medical profession, which has long preferred "cleft lip" and "conjoined twins". I'm afraid the truth is much duller than you'd like it to be.

Stephen Jones

This is my favourite entry from the Guardian Style Book
sponsorship
try to avoid: we are under no obligation to carry sponsors' names. So London Marathon, not Flora London Marathon, etc. When a competition is named after a sponsor, it is unavoidable: C&G Trophy, etc; however, if the Guardian sponsors an event, we should say so

Robert

Blimey, Rod, this is pretty limp stuff.

It's an extract from the Guardian's style guide, which exists mainly to ensure consistency in the terms used. Every newspaper has one. I'm sure the Speccie does, too.

Your fake outrage, Nationwide League-Littlejohn act is a bit tiresome.

Giles Morris

The geographical centre of Europe is actually located in a small Polish town on the border with Belorus - a place called Suchowola.

Robert Frosch

Don't worry Rod - at the rate that slow rate are reproducing these days, there won't been any grandmothers left to be offended.

Multon

I have reservations about being referred to as a cripple (though I am one), just as, I imagine, Rod Liddle might have reservations about being referred to as a prat (though he is one).

Rhory Fraser

Liddle pays lip service to the idea of being non-PC but in reality, he toes the line obediently. Remember his classic article on knife crime, blaming it on drunken white youth!! It took a state funded black quangocrat - Trevor Phillips - to admit this week that, surprise, surprise, knife crime is almost exclusively perpetrated by blacks - misunderstood, refugee blacks though natch. Be brave, Rod, really tell it like it is