Public bodies have no role in historical disputes
Nearly all Turks would anyway dispute the notion of ‘genocide’. Ever since 1878 the Armenians had become more and more restive and the nationalists started to make the running — even murdering prominent Armenians who dissented and who said (as did the Patriarch in 1890) that it would all end in disaster. In the spring of 1915, just as the Russian army (with an Armenian division in tow) came over the border, there was a revolt, encouraged by the Russians and the Armenians who lived under the Tsar. Many prominent Armenians in Turkey also encouraged or organised rebellions because, with the British about to land at Gallipoli and the French training an Armenian legion on Cyprus, they expected the Turks to collapse. In the eastern city of Van the Muslim quarter was smashed, and many inhabitants were killed. The Ottoman government then decreed that Armenians — with many exceptions — should be deported out of areas where they could damage the defences, or sabotage the telegraph lines and railways. The deportees were sent to northern Syria, but on the way they were sometimes attacked by wild tribes, in some cases with the connivance of officials. In 1916 — and this surely tells against ‘genocide’ — the Ottomans tried 1,300 of these men and even executed a governor. About half a million Armenians arrived in the south-east and a very great number then died of the disease and starvation that were so prevalent at the time. Muslims also died in droves. In addition, the figure given for overall losses by the Armenian representative at the Paris peace treaties was 700,000 — not 1.5 million as has been widely claimed.
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Chuck Chambers
October 18th, 2007 7:31amAfter working though Mr. Stone's rambling apologia for the Turks, one is still left with the question with which he chose never to address: "What is modern Turkey?" . If it's a Moslem state, then there was never going to be room for a large Armenian Christian minority with equal citizenship rights. . If it's an ethnic Turkish country, then there was never going to be room for either the Armenians or a large Kurdish Islamic minority. Ethnic Turks have made it a crime even to discuss their 1915 massacre, much of which was personal and grizzly, more like Rwanda than Auschwitz. They don’t enjoy discussing their sustained attempt to wipe out Kurdish culture, a national policy that gave rise to the current mess, either. However much Mr. Stone doesn't like it, the US Congress, whatever their motives, and however indirectly broached, has a legitimate, long term duty to understand what kind of country the modern Turks want their country to be. This responsibility goes "in spades" for the legislatures of the European Union. . Now may not the best time to force the issue, but at some point the ethnic Turks will need to make the existential decision of whether they want to live in the multi-ethnic, multi-religious tent of the EU or in a mono-cultural Turkish state of reduced population and area.
ed hooper
October 18th, 2007 10:25amI don't know how the Article 301 rules apply to resident foreigners such as Mr. Stone but he is nonetheless playing it safe by shilling for Turkey, as he has done on many occasions.
TDK
October 19th, 2007 11:20am"In addition, the figure given for overall losses by the Armenian representative at the Paris peace treaties was 700,000 — not 1.5 million" Oh, that's all right then! Even if you strip away all the debate about intentionality, you are still faced with a situation where the Ottomans instigated and pursued a policy that resulted in a horrific death toll. The Turks then compound this by refusing to countenance any discussion. In contrast I agree with the point that Politicians should not enter such a debate. We've seen the lionization of David Irving after his incarceration; an outcome that results from the political desire to publicly declaim opposition to genocide. That outcome contrasts with his being totally discredited after failing in his libel action. Mixing politics and scholarship never ends happily.
Marc Silver
October 23rd, 2007 4:53am"What's The 'Genocide' To Do With Congress? remainds me of that moronic 1960s protest, "What Sex Got To Do With Love?" As a non-US citizen, how can the author possibly know what is the business of the US Congress? Is he by chance assuming that America has the principles, ethics and obligations of an Old World nation, and Congress is simply doing a terrible job of fulfilling them? America is not essentially a nation or even a country. America is a humanist religion whose founding principle is that ALL HUMAN BEINGS, not only Americans, are created equal and are entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. When Scrooge tried to mollify Marley's ghost by saying, "You were always a good man of business, Jacob," Marley exploded, "Business? MANKIND WAS OUR BUSINESS!" How does the post-Churchillian British public feel about Charles Dicken's conviction? Mankind is the business of the American Congress. Whether certain actions taken against other humans in the Brotherhood of Man is genocide is, and always will be, Americas responsibility. Millions of foreign immigrants seeking a new life in the New World know of this bedrock humanist ideal, and sacrifice everything they have to join it. Norman Stone's intellectual pettifogging will not alter the visceral power of the American ideal.