Europe returns to the Commons — and, this time, nobody is safe

Ray

The sad truth for the Conservative Party (as well as those Labour MPs who still value any semblance of national independence) is that, sooner or later, the EU steamroller will have to faced down. And if quitting (or being ejected from) this whole, misbegotten enterprise is the price we have to pay for standing up for our sovereign right to govern ourselves, then so be it. Otherwise the EU machine will chew Prime Minister Cameron up and spit him out, just like it did to your Thatcher and Major. After all, what's the worst Brussels can do - put tanks on the streets of London?

EyeSee

This 'problem' for politicians is a clear statement of how they have forgotten to serve the people in their clamour for personal reward and power. They so desperately want the perks of the Stalinist EU that they are blind to all else. And oh Fraser you comedian supreme; Brown will make Common Law superior to EU law. And how will he do that? He is currently engaged in turning us more fully into a State-first, Code Napoleon country, to fit into his precious EU. A politicians paradise. Having saved Europe (and paid for it!) so often in the past, it is truly disgusting that those courageous leaders of yore are today replaced by supine, weak-kneed ninnies. We should not only get out of the EU, we should save all of Europe again, by effecting it's overthrow.

Austin Barry

Excellent article, but perhaps it discounts the wider context: a bitter, generally Europhobe, electorate looking for any excuse to clobber Brown. The Treaty, on which they are being denied a referendum, is just another in the litany of gripes that the voters will bring home to Brown in a couple of years. Does Brown really think that people will forget his weasle-like flip-flop? Also, to complicate matters, I get the impression that Irish voters, disenchanted with Europe now that the handouts have stopped and for other, rather more fugitive and not very commendable reasons, will likely kick the Treaty into touch at their referendum later this year.

M. Penn

Regarding the vote on the EU treaty what is so appaling about this is that individual MP refuse to vote for the independence of the country. They would rather go along with their parties and whips. A plague on all of them say I.

Liberty Valence

The way to beat the EU at its own game is simple: UK REFERENDUMS & lots of them! The EU who originally trumpeted referendums are now clearly running very scared of them. So whenever, the EU & its Commission propose something that is contentious for the UK, there should be a UK referendum on it - soon after. As long as enough people take part, that referendum should be binding on Parliament & the government. And that should be the law. After all governments exist for their citizens' benefit. Not the other way round. And a wise government would let the British people get it off the hook if the EU was being particularly demanding. Frankly the outrageous current Lisbon EU Constitution/Reform treaty is so un-democratic & illiberal that it has put the EU in the 'last-chance saloon'. It's no longer worth negotiating with its hard-line members (eg France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Italy, Spain etc). If they don't bow to hard-line British will, the UK should LEAVE!

molly bennett

did you receive my previous comment on this? if not please advise?

David Lindsay

Let’s not have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. After all, that Treaty simply is not the rejected EU Constitution. And it was only on the Constitution that a referendum was promised. More importantly, calling for a referendum is David Cameron’s way of getting himself off the hook. Cameron’s Leadership drives the final nail into the coffin of Tory Euroscepticism, such as it ever was. The Tories gave us the Treaty of Rome, the Single European Act, and the Maastricht Treaty. With their record of camel-swallowing, it has been both hilarious and disgusting to observe their affected straining at gnats since 1997. But under Cameron, they have stopped pretending. The aristocratic Europhilia of the Fifties, Sixties and Seventies is restored. Yet Tory activists exhibit very strong Eurosceptical tendencies, which have never been party policy. So Cameron, knowing that Brown will refuse a referendum, is demanding one. He will soon stand up in the House of Commons and bang on about how, in the absence one, he and his party will be voting against the Treaty. But this is all completely beside the point. They should be voting against the Treaty anyway. All MPs should be, without even thinking about a referendum. Let Alex Salmond and Ian Paisley earn their MPs’ salaries. Let the anti-Treaty SNP and the anti-Treaty DUP put down an amendment which does not mention a referendum, but rejects the Treaty out of hand because it extends the legislative power of a body which meets in secret and publishes no Official Report, and because it fails to abolish the Common Fisheries Policy. How could the second part be opposed at least by any MP from Scotland, Northern Ireland, the West Country or the East Coast? And how could the first part be opposed by any MP at all?

MOLLY bENNETT

Here we go again the politicians and government playing 'ping pong' with the lives and the finances of the people of Britain,when will they all stop lying about the EU and its so called benefits, they are fooling no one anymore, I am ashamed of the way it has become the political football for the benefit of those with an urge to get to the trough no matter the cost, The people of this country deserve better and thank God I feel now the tide is turning as once again this fraudulent group of modern day pirates are being seen for what they truly are,The conservatives make promises they know they cannot keep, The Labour party has become a laughing stock, and the Lib dems play their usual games, sit on the fence like vultures, or 'bat both sides' While all this time the EU accounts have not been signed off for the last 13 years because of the skulduggery being practiced in the name of this unholy 21st century piracy. No sir the people will not walk blinfold into this cesspit of greed and corruption now the truth is finally coming out . It has taken a few honest people in the right place to persist in letting people know the real truth, but it has paid off , these politicians can no longer hide behind a mask of lies and platitudes, the truth is out and they are all trying to hide from it .....AT THEIR PERIL.

Dave

The politicians in power should all be locked up in the tower awaiting execution for treason as they would have been in years gone by.

John Acheson

An interesting and well argued article full of the shenanigans of insider political intrigue. However, the issue, lest we forget, concerns democracy and the ability of the Nation's electorate to be able to control the people who want to control us. Palpably this is now impossible under EU control. We MUST disengage from this undemocratic monolith and uphold the principle of government of the people, by the people, for the people and NOT of the elite, by the elite, for the elite. The old lags will say "'twas never thus", but the principle that we must be able to control our politicians has to be upheld or there is going to be societal break down and the potential for a big bust between electorate and elected of the most serious sort imaginable. This will become violent in the end. Whatever the outcome of this debate the issue of democracy remains paramount and unanswered and if politicians continue to refuse to listen they must be held responsible for the consequences NOT the people. This is a very serious debate and should be removed from the domain of political intrigue. MPs we ask you again - please don't vote for politics and politicians, vote for your constituents - the majority of whom already hold you in rising contempt. The next few weeks will test the political integrity of the nation. If the vote goes the wrong way and this ConstiTreaty is passed into UK law there is going to be hell to pay down the road - Thatcher's children and Generation X won't stand for it.

Robert

Well all politicians have one problem we will vote and when we vote, people will look and say , Brown has to be the worse leader in power so far good bye.

John Fleming

The sad truth is that no political party has either the skill or gumption to tackle this problem and they all rely on spin doctors who are so much out of touch with reality and live in their own dream worlds. This is not the only issue not being tackled by the three main parties but that is another story fortunately Labour will find out when they go to the polls. Perhaps it will make the other parties sit up and take note though I doubt it.

David Miers

Important date which has yet to have any media attention - 27th Feb: MASS ANTI EU LOBBY OF PARLIAMENT! There are free coaches being organised from all over the country. Go to iwantareferendum.com. Don't hold your breath for any media coverage though.