I am angrier with the government about the smoking ban than the Iraq war

Lucan C. Heraclitus

too right, young Rod...and, to add a footnote, the government sets even more schemes to finagle new taxes on us to make up for the shortfall in taxable spending. How about a Home Socialization Tax to net those middle-class twerps who are always inviting friends around?

james

Your completely right. Since the ban I dont even bother to go to the pub anymore. An "enjoyable" quick pint is a thing of the past now, you can sit inside and have a cig with it, instead you must stand outside in the rain, in the cold. Not just that, concentrated smokers when out clubbing has led to many many more fights breaking out. Its my right to smoke, its not theirs to stop me.

TDK

It is a pity that an article complaining about misuse of statistics should commence with the uncritical repetition of the Iraqi death toll in the region of that claimed by the much criticised Lancet report. Someone who claims to understand how and why interest groups publish dodgy stats concerning smoking ought to be sceptical about the Iraqi statistics too, or at least acknowledge there is some doubt. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119984087808076475.html

andy

Its nice to see some sense talked on this subject in the National media. Rod there are alternatives to the ban that would even appease people who dont like smoke. This is of course ventilation. These days 99.97% of toxins can be removed from the air, meaning a bar allowing smoking would be far healthier than outside. For info on the campaign to amend the ban logon to freedom2choose.info You will be amazed at the spin and untruths behind the ban.

George Speller

Ron - you've said it all - I've already switched form Guardian to telegraph - maybe I'll start reading the SPECTATOR now.

mandyv

Very well written Rod. I have never been so angry in my life, I cannot get to grips with the baltant lying and the damage to the hospitality industry. Criminals definetly have more rights now. They are cutting services from the elderly,they cannot afford to look after the pensioners now. Why the hell do they want us to live another 10 years? well that is if that piece of information is right anyway. The oldest people ever lived were SMOKERS, they should ask what they didn't do. I also assume from the figures of the death rates from the NHS that if you smoked, but got MRSA or some other problem that you never had when you entered the hospital, it would be put down to a smoking related diesese. I will never give to cancer research or the british heart foundation again, they have become to politcal. If they do not want to treat me in hospital while I am alive, they needn't bother plundering my organs when I am dead either. Not that they should be any good according to the Antis. Thank you for your great article

jon

Spot on Rod. Why don't we see more of this type of story in the national press? You only have to look with your own eyes to see that the pubs are dying. And all because of a stupid law based on lies. This is a miserable country now.

Chris F J Cyrnik

Thanks Ron for your comments about this pernicious smoking ban. With your contacts Ron, will it ever be possible to make a programme concerning this rotten legislation, and shown in the main stream media. Unless we can do this...then we are simply peeing into a very strong wind!

Austin Barry

I usually agree with Rod on most things, and indeed I agree that Ms Primarolo is shovel-faced. but why should I come back from a pub smelling like an ashtray just because smokers don't give a toss about discomforting other people? Smokers are, above all, discourteous and that's enough to prohibit them from any communal space where courtesy should be a given.

chas

Well said Rod. I believe that the Government should mind its own business how people in Iraq live their lives and how people here live their lives.

Richard Bassett

Even though I have never smoked, I agree that the non-smoking ban is ridiculous. However, Mr. Liddle also reveals his own ridiculous side with the assertion that people have died in Iraq.

Sean Dunne

Ron might also have mentioned the Japanese, the world’s longest living (sizable) peoples and also amongst the world’s heaviest smokers. The British are not a nation of heavy smokers these days - but they appear to be amongst the least healthy nations in Europe. I notice the oldest man that ever lived actually started smoking when he was seventy - and the oldest relative in my family was still (secretly) smoking when she died at 106. But even if all the scare stories are to be believed - smokers must be the most civic minded people around. Not only do they pour billions into the Exchequer, they presumably do society a great favour by dying earlier, so saving the country many more billions in pension payouts! To survive economically in the future, we really should be encouraging the whole of the public sector workforce to smoke as much as possible! Just compare the nauseating, repellent, totally inept and useless likes of the Dawn Primarolo’s and the Pat Hewitt’s and all their co-conspirators of this world and then the historical list of the most eminent, celebrated, renowned and legendary figures who were also smokers. Makes you want to puke

Watervole

Hear, hear - I couldn't have said it better and at long last someone has dared to talk about the elephant in the room. Pubs are going out of business; they are empty; people are voting with their feet; it is destroying the very fabric of british society where the pub was a focal point of contact; and it will probably lead to more suicides and stress related illnesses as those who could at least have gone to the pub and drowned their sorrows with a fag and a pint, have nowhere to go. Why go to a pub now where the price of beer has gone up and you get less service. Most of the pubs I know are now restaurants and struggling at that. One local in the Midlands (a fine, tru real ale house called the Nelson Inn in Ludlow) built a special gazebo outside which resulted in the ridiculous situation of all the punters, even the non-smokers being outside in the gazebo while the pub was empty!

John Livesey - Heytesbury

Rod, me old mucker... Well said! I especially agree with your summation of that Bristolian Trout face Ms. Prima Roll Up. Can't imagine a quiz night in 'Lion without a fag to aid concentration. We'd never have won the league had the ban been in place. Johnny L.

PaulD

Rod, that is a corker, spoilt by only one thing - the post from Austin Barry... "but why should I come back from a pub smelling like an ashtray just because smokers don't give a toss about discomforting other people?" Listen, Austin mate, most smokers would be quite happy with a room at the side where you need not tread. Nicely ventilated so this deadly substance, which whole generations have survived through near-permanent immersion, does not creep your way. You will be happy, we will be happy. OK? I am now a Spectator reader.

Paddy Briggs

Rod Love your polemical style – hate your views on this one. Why cannot those who suggest that the smoking ban in public places was an infringement of freedoms see it from the perspective of the (majority) non-smokers - and employees? In the last six months pubs and restaurants that I wanted to go to, but wouldn’t because of the vile and smoky atmosphere have change beyond recognition – and positively so. One of my favourite pubs is now one near Richmond Theatre which used to be a no-no because of the foul atmosphere. This pub (The Duke) closed for a while after the ban to clean itself up. Now, re-opened and always busy, it serves great food, real ale, good wine and it ain’t just me who is enjoying it. There are many other examples I could cite. Whilst the pubs/restaurants that focus on customer needs are booming it is not just we consumers who are benefiting. Suddenly the workers in these places can go to work without worrying that their lungs would be wrecked and their clothes polluted by the fagheads at and around the bar. It’s about PUBLIC PLACES. I welcome a law that says that violence against innocents in public places is against the law. Smokers who polluted my space in these places were committing acts of violence against me. Thank heavens it’s gone for good. And, Rod, accept it mate. You may not like it and like your soulmate the inane Mr Clarkson (who wants to drive without speed limits or cameras) you may feel it infringes your liberty. And so it does. And so it should. End of story!

karen.boyd

Great article and sums up exactly how I feel. I've come to the conclusion that this country is a pretty miserable place to live now and I'd be better off and happier abroad....as a smoker going out to pubs and restaurants is just not the same and I look forward to getting home, kicking back and smoking and drinking together AT THE SAME TIME. PS Why are the papers not reporting on all this - its like a conspiracy

Kevyn Bodman

Apart from the lies and the interfering in our lives, both of which are serious, the government missed an easy opprtunity to deal with the matter of smoking in pubs.Simply, allow landlords to have any policy they like on smoking and then put a sign up outside to say what that pub's policy is. A simple set of 3 symbols: smoke anywhere, smoke nowhere or smoke in designated areas.Then the market could decide.If you want to go out for a drink but don't want to go home smelling like an ashtray then go to a non-smoking pub. Easy. I predict, in all seriousness, that if ID cards come in then sooner or later there'll be attempts to make purchasers of cigarettes have their ID cards swiped and the sale will be recorded. The'll do the same at off-licences too.

PaulD

Paddy Briggs, I'm glad you like the smoke-free atmosphere of your pub in Richmond. If you had read other posts you would have seen there always were perfectly workable compromises available. But compromise doesn't enter the collective head of this control-mad government, who were actually elected on the promise of a partial ban only. As a townie, you seem not to care about the hundreds of village pubs which relied on the beer-and-fags trade before going bust. This, of course, is part of the trouble with our current ruling class; they are completely out of touch with the "other half". Oh, and please don't use expressions like "accept it" and "end of story". We may start to think you're as bad as they are.

Desmond Dale

Thank you Rod Liddle for a fantastic article, very well said, however, in my opinion the most important fact has been left out. The government is indeed a nannying, bullying one, but in the case of smoking bans, ther claim is that things like civil rights, property rights, freedom of choice and tolerance, all have to be "shelved" in order to deal with a terrifying menace to society; i.e. "secondhand smoke". The point which needs to be made over and over again is that if you really look at the evidence on this, and you know how the studies have been done, what the statistics really mean, how the antismoking lobby cherry-picks flimsy evidence and then uses it to make hypothetical computer projections, etc etc - then you will find that it's complete and utter nonsense. There simply is no proof that SHS has ever actually killed anyone - and they've been trying for 40 years. If SHS was really that dangerous then there might be some justification for a ban - but of course, then tobacco should be completely illegal, shouldn't it? As long is it's legal and the government makes billions of pounds from taxing it, then people should have somewhere they can smoke. That's a reasonable libertarian argument, but it's the lies and the distortion of science which need to be addressed, otherwise there will be no end to it. We need to hear from more doctors, scientists and academics who care more about science and truth than the antismoking agenda. They are most definitely out there, but mostly are either denied publicity, or are afraid of losing their funding or their jobs - the antismoking movement is like the Spanish Inquisition - they should be ashamed of themselves!

Frances Huggett

trouble is there's not even a glimmer of hope from the other lot. Emailed Dave as alternative to thinking up ever more virulent anti-Hewitt curses and got this nulabour clone reply On the issue of smoking, Conservatives have expressed some reservations about the ban, for example about smoking in prisons and mental health units, and about the requirement on all public places and businesses to display no smoking signs. The Government Minister previously responsible for the smoking ban, Caroline Flint, has assured us that the Government are committed to a review of the legislation, so if any problems occur which were not expected while the legislation was being formulated, the legislation may be reconsidered. We hope that the new measures will play a positive role in reducing exposure to second-hand smoke and, in turn, help to improve public health.

Brian Birdnow

Rod, You are right on the mark with your criticisms and, might I add, you would not be happy on this side of the pond today. The smoking ban folks are everywhere and they are not confined to a political party, a philosophy of government, or a cultural persuasion. I managed, along with about ten thousand friends, to fight this thing off in St. Louis, Missouri a few years ago, but I'm sure it will be back again like the many-headed hydra that it certainly is!

Tim Jenkins

Who is this Ron Liddle bloke so many people are referring to? Should I be reading him instead of Rod Liddle? What do you say, Rob?

Lee Magnusson

It's not the fags that cause cancer it's the chemtrails in the sky. The military aircraft create them to facilitate all of the money making ventures that rely on sick people

Wendy

I epect the air quality in Austria is a lot better than here in the uk. I'm sure polution from traffic etc is far worse for us than Smoking, after all if statistics are right, Thousands of people have given up smoking and yet Asthma is on the increace!

Wendy(another one)

Rod -would love to see the facts and figures regarding spending of every County Council regarding enforcement officers since this ban. Our local officer spends his days going round shops looking for No Smoking signs in windows (I have been threatened and harrassed) climbing into vans to make sure there is a notice in the back as well as the cab, and closing down outdoor smoking areas of pubs which in HIS opinion do not conform strictly to the guidelines. I am sure we all have an opinion of how the money could be better spent.

sebastian

I halted smoking in my late teens and never returned to it. I'm convinced my health benefited and I had extra cash to spend on other vices. But not on drinks in my local, opposite the house. At least, not during Winter lunch-times and evenings when pub doors and windows were firmly shut and fresh air and ventilation absent. Then, the pre-smoking ban atmosphere was choking. It was me and other non-smokers who froze outside doing what a pub was designed for: having a convivial sherbert. But not in comfort. Furthermore, I did rather resent having tobacco smoke seep into my laundered clothes. The unpleasant odour lingered. So banning smoking in pubs isn't all bad news. I suppose, though, there's a case for smoking rooms - as in many airports - instead of a total prohibition. There, addicts may have their gaspers in relative isolation and we need not have secondary smoking and sickly odours inflicted on us. I well recall the problem of smokers and non-smokers when helping to supervise a Residents Committee bar on a compound in a certain, highly medieval Islamic State. Our solution was to set a non-smoking room aside (priority went to our main customers, who were largely smokers) but with powerful extractor fans throughout the premises. Smoke never lingered anywhere; it was promptly removed to the general satisfaction of all. As for Dawn Primorolo, in whose constituency I once lived before legging it overseas, I can only agree with Rod's description. My question is, though, "What kind of shovel?" Whichever it turns out to be, the smug arrogance stamped on its tin face would still raise an ironmonger's eyebrows, well known trademark though it is.

Michael J. McFadden

The smoking ban is a bad law based upon lies. For a clear, brief, but thorough summary of the lies about the health effects of wisps of secondary smoke and the lies about the economic effects of bans, read the .pdf version of the Day Of Defiance! at: - = - http://www.smokersclubinc.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4472 - = - Better yet, print out and bind a copy in a student report cover and bring it in to leave on the bar of your local pub! - = - Michael J. McFadden - = - Author of "Dissecting Antismokers' Brains" - = - http://pasan.TheTruthIsALie.com

Dan

So, let me get this straight - you are angrier about the smoking ban than an illegal war that is killing tens if not hundreds of thousands of innocent people and has dragged Britain's good name through the mud? Really? If that's true, you're a idiot.

R.France

What a sad pathetic country this has now become thanks to New Labour. It has been responsible for setting our once tolerent society against each other,non smokers being the main instigators.In fact,I was standing outside a shop yesterday enjoying a cigarette when this elderly chap with his wife began flapping his arm up and down resembling a one winged penguin trying to take off and carried on looking in the shop window pinching his nose !He succeeded in making me feel ashamed alright,but not from my smoking.I felt ashamed that here was another brainwashed member of the great British public who had succumbed to the mass hysteria brought on by this mind controling government who would be more akin to wearing jackboots.I,along with the majority of smokers respect non smokers wishes not to inhale others smoke,but there must be CHOICE.The sooner this draconian law is ammended to allow consenting adults to partake in the smoking of a legal substance without becoming a criminal the better. Our smug non smoking friends may be laughing now,but it is only a matter of time before this power crazed administration will ban one of their pastimes...Only last week there was a proposal made to ban salt on restaurant tables !! Remember,smoking is healthier than fascism