Liddle Britain
It is true that ten years or so ago there was an opinion poll of European countries which asked the citizens of each nation to rank each country according to how much they liked it. Of course, we came last — with the almost-as-reviled Krauts finishing second bottom. Top spot was acquired by the cheerful, too-rye-aye Irish, who never hurt a soul, never started a war, victims of upprussion but nonetheless always happy etc, etc. Which seems to suggest that European people do vote in such pointless contests as the Eurovision Song Contest according to their prejudices: the UK joint bottom in 2008, remember — joint bottom with Germany. But in the year that poll was taken, the UK actually won the Eurovision Song Contest, with the vile and emetic ‘Love Shine a Light’ by Katrina and the bloody Waves. So the people of Europe may not simply vote for countries they like and ignore countries they abhor; there may be more to it than that.
The notion that countries vote for their friends seems to me way wide of the mark. Bosnia-Herzegovina gave its maximum marks to Serbia: if they are great friends, why did we waste all that money trying to bomb the hell out of Milosevic on their behalf? Similarly, Ukraine gave 12 points to Russia, which had, two years earlier, tried to kill its president with a singularly ineffective form of poison. Armenia and Turkey friends? I don’t think so, but they voted for each other quite happily, somehow forgetting all that genocide stuff. And what about those Baltic states, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia — suffering the yoke of Soviet oppression for so many years — who did they vote for? Russia, of course. Greece gave a few points to Turkey, too. And vice versa. And you begin to understand that this isn’t political — it’s something else.
Here’s my suggestion: the people of Europe voted, en masse, for the sorts of songs they liked best, precisely as they were meant to do. And the sorts of songs they liked best, with which they were most familiar, came from within their own cultures, or within cultures from which they had received, for good or bad reasons, perpetual exposure over a large number of years. That’s why everybody voted the way they did.
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Dave Bates
May 29th, 2008 11:32amI saw Rod Liddle on Through the Keyhole on Monday. What a piece of garbage and what a chav pretends to be posh house.
A music lover
May 29th, 2008 3:25pmWe do not on any account want to win the Eurovision song contest. It would mean having to host the sleazefest the following year. The horror of having to accommodate in the UK tens of thousands of brainless East European peasants would be too much to bear. It would be worse than the Olympics, Children in Need and Live Aid combined.
Cogito Ergosum
May 29th, 2008 3:58pmI am amazed that Rod Liddle praised the British entry - I thought it was rubbish. Why not give them earful of "Nice One, Cyril"? Perhaps with a verse in every different language.
T. J. K. Budgie
May 29th, 2008 5:57pmThat has to be the worst written article I have ever read in The Spectator.
I am shocked and dismayed that standards have fallen so low.
Ian C
May 29th, 2008 6:13pmI did not watch the contest and I think the last time I did was when Abba won with Waterloo.
But I love Rod's recommendation for a winner. I can't wait.
Steve Benson
May 29th, 2008 7:39pmI too saw Mr Liddle on Through the Keyhole. White-trash with cash is how his abode is best described.
David Short
May 29th, 2008 8:30pmIf the Spectator's standards have fallen, then the standard of reader has fallen with it.
How is it that even one reader, never mind at least two, watches 'Through the Keyhole'?
John Holmes
May 30th, 2008 9:14amI must have missed something. Someone please tell me what is the relevance of someone's taste in furniture to the merits of their argument (not an argument about furniture, I think).
Bob Tilley
May 30th, 2008 9:58amWonderful stuff, Liddle dear boy. Fortunately, we out here in the wastes of Asia, far beyond even the expanded borders of Europe, are spared the annual spectacle of hairy Balkan hags and blokes in tattered jeans competing for a trophy I wouldn't let through the back door.But here's an idea--bring the contest to somewhere like Luang Prabang and let the locals out this way strut their stuff. At least the gals are sleek and slim and the blokes wear tuxedos. Great ratings are guaranteed.
Bob Tilley, Chiang Mai
Lucan C. Heraclitus
May 30th, 2008 11:07amYou gottoo lerve a liddle
take a liddle
Letchore pore art brake a liddle
dat de storio
dat de glorio vidge
Ron's idea should be taken up for next year.Definitely.
BTW it's distressing to know that there are Spectator readers who watch 'Keyhole'.
Mike Brand
May 30th, 2008 11:43amLucan C. Heraclitus misses the point. The real horror is that the Spectator has writers who appear on that rubbish. Not only that but they go on looking like vagrants and have homes that look like they have been decorated by Barbara Windsor. This is the true price of Socialism.
Sally Rossi
May 30th, 2008 12:04pmMike Brand is spot on.
JLL
May 30th, 2008 12:24pmYou've missed the point. The reason why countries vote for their neighbours is not because they each other. It's because of ex-pats. For example, there are large numbers of ethnic Russians in places like Latvia, Lithuania and the Ukraine.
Lucan C. Heraclitus
May 30th, 2008 12:38pmMike Brand - you may be right but for me Mr. Liddle can do no wrong.
I have a heart-shaped tattoo with his name inside. (!)
But in view of his day-time TV cash for trash black mark I have emblazoned this with a banner bearing the motto "errare humanum est".
To this is superadded an early Zhou dynasty proverb - He who milks the old cow must set his stool with care.
Geoff Ellis
May 30th, 2008 12:48pmbeautifully put!! We watched from Australia on the multicultural channel, it is a party thing here where we roll around wetting ourselves at the whole shebang, we would never miss it, rejoicing in the togetherness that
'Europe" displays despite the odd non Euro ringin!! Loved the article. !!
Paddy
May 30th, 2008 2:20pmIn my opinion, the UK's entry was tuneless and deserved a low finish. (At least you could remember B&H's entry afterwards - even if the tune was repeated ad nauseam - as well as the quirky characters, which as a whole, in my opinion, actually worked quite well).
As JLL pointed out, countries do not vote for each other because they are neighbours or even for cultural similarities. The reason Belarus gives high marks to Russia is because of the Russians in Belarus, similarly with Moldova to Russia and to Romania etc... all the way to the Poles living in Ireland who vote for Poland...
Of course, if there is a spectacularly good song then people will vote for it regardless.
Ollie
May 30th, 2008 3:11pmWhereas in Britain the height of popular music achievement is considered to be the work of, say, Pink Floyd or The Beatles, in Ukraine they really, truly, honestly, and without shame, think it is the oeuvre of eighties German electro-pop outfit Modern Talking.
John Starbuck
May 30th, 2008 4:22pmDoing better at Eurovision is a great argument for splitting up the UK. Wait until we all start voting for each other!
rod liddle
May 30th, 2008 9:36pmOoh good, a write-in. Get a few more involved Sal and Mike and Brand et al. Good for the hit rate.
Andrew Oliver
May 31st, 2008 9:42amJohn Starbuck is assuming a great deal. I would sooner vote for the Russians or anyone else before I gave a vote to the Welsh or Scots. I find that the East Europeans are far more civilised than the Scots or Welsh and the French are cleaner. As for Liddle (on through the keyhole) his tastes are much as one would expect. p.s. I only watched it because it was a wet Bank Holiday.
david s
May 31st, 2008 10:34amwhat a sad man are you ROD LIDDLE. you really donk know anything.
At least Britan could send a good song next year.
Andy Gill
May 31st, 2008 12:26pmThe great news is that after Liddles appearance on TV all of his "mates" at the Spectator will be laughing at him behind his back.
Anon
May 31st, 2008 4:03pmA trivial subject, but an interesting general observation. What is the link between a culture and its music? Personally speaking, apart from the theme from "Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence", I do not find Asian music appealing (under which category I would include Greek music).
Jeremiah Wright recently made a famous comparison of white and black American marching band styles. He delivered it as an insult, but again, personally speaking, I thought he embarrassed himself.
My theory, at least as regards Western European tastes, is that we cannot escape our classical (Greek) heritage, and so are constantly looking for a point in music (as in "what is the point?", rather than "douze points"). Perhaps other cultures are not so bothered about that. In this case, I think I'm content to observe that it's all relative.
JimBob
May 31st, 2008 8:39pmIt would be better if the bottom 3 countries got 'relegated' out of the EU
Roger Inkpen
June 1st, 2008 3:11pmOf course most of what you hear on Eurovision is total dross, but even if you watch it you can console yourself that you’ll never hear any of the ‘songs’ again. As for the voting, I really don’t care who votes for what and why. The excitement of seeing how the individual countries vote is what makes the previous 2 hours worthwhile. Quite possibly the UK entry was played on the radio before the contest, but it was the first time I heard it, and although a passable song, was not performed well enough to get into the top half. So it came last, but so what?
It has been obvious for many years that strange voting patterns take place. For many years Germany consistently voted for Turkey. Neither country can vote for itself, but there are probably millions of ethnic Turks in Germany, who can vote for the mother country. Likewise with the former Soviet states and the Balkans. I still don’t see a problem with this. We know we have the biggest, most professional music industry in Europe. Our performers are known and loved throughout the continent. So the voting can’t just be down to political or cultural differences. There is the argument that we shouldn’t be footing the bill for this contest. Maybe now that Russia is filthy rich they should be added to the ‘big four’ whose financial contributions guarantee them a place.
What I find offensive was Wogan’s comments throughout the night. Not only did he talk as songs started, he told us what he thought of them, without letting us decide for ourselves. And he gave us no chance to judge the interval act, waffling endlessly about nothing in particular. How he can complain about racism towards our performer when he was dismissing Serbian culture is rank hypocrisy.
Jim Scott
June 2nd, 2008 2:58pmWell said Mr Liddle. As ever you can be relied on to write a truthful, humorous non PC version of life as it really is. More power to your pen and please continue to ignore those po-faced individuals who don't approve of your style or content.
Barry McGregor
June 2nd, 2008 5:14pmIs Jim Scott Mr Liddle in disguise or is he his interior decorator?
Peter Graves
June 7th, 2008 12:41pmStitches,..absolutely spot on my man Liddel...and don't listen to all those poppinjays without a shred of humour
O. Ine-Aethelberht
July 11th, 2008 11:51pmNow that's what I call an idea, JimBob!!!