Russia’s aggression in Georgia is a portent of perils to come

Leah Owens

And what is wrong with nation states Bobbit? The 'world order' that you so blithely talk about is all about watering down nations and remaking them as purely economic entities - the playthings of the rich and powerful. 'Democratic' governments all over the world are waving the flag for 'diversity' and cultural identification of minority groups, whilst they are busy dismantling their indigenous majorities. After all, if no one feels attached to the country they live in (particularly if they have moved there for work) they don't care what happens to it. This is the whole point of immigration - why do you think it's happening on a global scale?

Voice

Goodness me! You don't have to look back to WWII to find a comparable situation. You dismiss the events in Yugoslavia but the comparison lies there, absolutely.

The US trained and armed the Croatian army during Operation Storm. Over 250,000 Serb civilians were ethnically cleansed from their ancestral homes by the thuggish Croats. This is where the term ethnic cleansing originated although the West would have us believe otherwise. The US was the support army there, in Bosnia and as part of NATO in Kosovo, when it bombed Serbian civilian infrastructure (primarily) for 78 days and nights.

Russia is simply defending it's interests in it's sphere of influence. When they do it, it's bad, when NATO countries do the same thing, it's good. Simple isn't it?

George Steiner

"old fashioned nation state" eh?
The most important nations for the forseable future will remain nation states. China, India, USA, Russia, Iran, Israel, Brasil, Canada, just to mention a few. It will be so because their populations want it like that.

The EU, cobled together against the wish of the people, as an intellectual construct will ammount to nothging. Untill Islam takes it over.

The people are not stupid. But the bien pansants increasingly are.

CharlieRay15

Shame this article had to blithely repeat the casualty figures for South Ossetia given by the Russians. So far Human Rgiths Watch is struggling to count more than 100. Not a very good start Mr Bobbit, swallowing unverified Russian propaganda whole...

JC

India is a nation state? The USA? Brazil? Canada? These are incredibly diverse states. Surely you are not that ignorant, Mr Steiner?

Lance Grundy

"How could a defeated and demoralised ex-superpower face down the world’s greatest states over a principle…?”

Easy Mr Bobbitt. It all comes down to military power. A cursory glance at the Arms Control Association’s website will tell you how. With 4,237 strategic warheads, approximately 2,000-3,000 operational tactical warheads, and approximately 8,000-10,000 stockpiled strategic and tactical warheads the “defeated and demoralised ex-superpower” seems remarkably well equipped to “face down” anyone it chooses.

As for the “greatest states” - who are they? Surely greatness comes from power, and, more importantly, the ability to project that power. The only Western state capable of projecting power on a similar scale to Russia is the US, so “greatest state” might have been more accurate. When it comes to fighting wars against ‘worthy’ adversaries, noisy - but ultimately pacifistic, windbags like the EU are, as Putin clearly understands, simply irrelevant and are best ignored.

madasafish

I'm sorry but this article is written assuming that the US is 100% perfect.. No-one is..
And the US -more than anyone else - has played the nation state game in th past 8 years.
Sod the UN, sod what anyone thinks etc.

And of course they are perfectly entitled to do so.

But then for someone to suggest another international body ...
I'm sorry. Which part of the Real World does the writer live in?
None as far as I can see.
Turgid illogical rubbish.

mike

Another propaganda piece for the NWO and one world government. The Speccie really is revealing its true allegiance.

Jason

I am no supporter of an Bullying Russia, but the coverage is impartial. Those who have see the Georgia interview onBBC Hardtalk can plainly see that the `democracy’ being praised by the West, does not tolerate dissent in the regular political arena. Separatist movements are dealt with a iron hand. The West turned a blind eye to gain a geo-political foothold in a corridor holding high military and economic significance.
If Georgia itself is a breakaway satellite of the former Soviet Union, the rebellious provinces were never keen on being part of Georgia at the outset. The news is slanted and far from unbiased. Far from embarrassing Russia, a skewed policy will revive dormant (but not dead) suspicions of NATO members.
Missteps could erase the progress made since the end of the Cold War and make combating global terror all the more difficult, if co-operation between nations break down.

JONNY

Can someone come clean from the USA and tells us straight and true what is the present point and purpose of NATO.
We all know what it was in 1948 when a huge Red Army threatened to reach the Channel ports in a few days.
Is that the worry now?

Ian C

I am curious to understand why two small 'counties' of the former USSR can be causing so much trouble. They do not appear to have anything anyone else wants, are subsistent economies and for some reason they don't want to be Georgian, so presumably prefer to be Russian who are paying for their upkeep anyway.

I take the geo-startegic implcations in the behaviour here but, for example, if Cumberland wanted independence we would all laugh and the world would not even hear about it.

john Walter

Amazing how the British media wishing to bash the Russians comes up with a slew of Yankie 'wannabes' about to be dumped in the trash can at the Presidential election. In other words folk with no further influence on world affairs. Bobbit omits to tell us that the elections from Georgia to the Ukraine were engineered with US Dollars, US promises of more dosh and membership of clubs that guaranteed inward investment. As 'Jason' here points out these are hardly democracies, not even the Ukraine - a corrupt and lawless country. Neither America nor Britain have any trade links with these ex-satellite nations worth talking about. Which means they can strut their stuff like a couple of hard-ons. The country that matters here is Germany. As it did in the 19th Century. Germany has more to lose than anyone in terms of trade. Germany therefore has a more common sense approach as it is not intent on buying up tinpot republics for ideological reasons. The Americans and Brits are willing to jump into bed with Georgia, run by a loose cannon if ever there was one, and Poland run by a social psycopath. If Bobbit doesn't know this then he should spend more time on the streets.

alcook54

"The search for historical analogies...it is the suppression of the Hungarian revolt in 1956 that offers an instructive parallel."
How about the US invasion of Grenada in 1983? Aren't the Russians (in a small way) emulating Ronald Reagan's 'restoration of status' attitude: We're a world power and we are not going to take this anymore ?

Alexander

Serbias territorial integrity was not upheld by the US or EU and Kosovo was forcibly wrenched from Serbia, meanwhile bombing the crap out of Serbia.
Then there is the invasion and conquest of Iraq, on a pretext that did not even exist. And hanging the Iraqi president to boot.
After such glittering examples of Western Statesmanship, why should the Russkies feel any restraints to achieve their geopolitical goals. To say that the cases of Kosovo and Georgia are not the same is mere bull...the differences are cosmetic.
On the other hand, Georgia has plenty US advisors on hand, everyone there knew what the situation was...so why did Georgia attack Ossetia. To test the Russian resolve. Or were the Russian's deliberately suckered into this rather malodorous adventure.

Lord Baltimore

"The country that matters here is Germany"...
Funny you should mention that. Their foreign minister has now come out in favor of accelerated track for NATO membership of Ukraine and Georgia. A "more common sense" approach?

David Short

This piece belongs in an academic journal.

Can't really make head nor tail of it. The purpose of journalism is to get a clear message across quickly.

This article does not do that.

James Canning

Russia sought a UN Security Council emergency resolution condemning any use of force to resolve the situation in South Ossetia, but the US blocked it. Russia also sought a resolution, after Georgia initiated its surprise attack, ordering an immediate cease-fire. Again, the US blocked it.

Recklessness on the part of the Georgian president, encouraged by John McCain apparently, caused this completely unnecessary disaster.

Exile

This is tosh. In fact, it is such utter and complete tosh that is is good in its way. As tosh goes that is.

Look, exactly a week ago Georgia and S. Ossetia signed a ceasefire that came into effect at 6.00pm local time. Four hours later Georgia mounted her surprise attack.

How anyone other than a propagandist for globalist expansionism could describe Russia's actions as aggression is beyond my understanding. Then again, I'm not trying to create the myth of heroic little Georgia, am I?

This heroic myth would play a lot better if the country had a president who didn't look on TV as is he was having one of those bowel movement moments just at the thought of the Russian air-force. In that he is like his army who ran like gutless curs from Gori when the Russian forces where nowhere near.

I have been blogging this since it began. If anyone wants a more sensible view, let them visit:

http://www.the-exile.info

Kevin

Leah Owens said -

"The 'world order' that you so blithely talk about is all about watering down nations and remaking them as purely economic entities - the playthings of the rich and powerful."

That is so obviously correct. It is something you can observe in your daily life. For example, the decline in our education standards is not met with a response that shows a cultural concern for the young of our British family: the solution is to avoid that hard work and sacrifice and, instead, to pay for immigrants to come in and fill the gap. (The same goes for the birth rate.)

Like the mortgage crisis, it's all about the quick sale and instant gratification.

I have no doubt that, were Britian to be attacked by a powerful nation, our politicians would pack their bags full of our money and clear out faster than you could say, "Spirit of the Blitz".

Nick

Crikey. So who decided to abolish the nation state, and why did nobody inform the hoi polloi that this was being done?
People actually like to belong to their own country, you know?
We're a bit sick of being viewed as economic units.

Nick

Oh, btw leah, your post is spot on.

David Nilsson

"Another propaganda piece for the NWO and one world government. The Speccie really is revealing its true allegiance."

Yes- I fondly remember when the Spectator was for cool, cynical, conservative gentlefolk who put the British national interest first and last and did not object to other countries doing likewise.

Nowadays it is a mouthpiece for globalised finance and big business, endlessly prating a version of World State ideallism and America-worship, even as it becomes more and more obvious-- with 200 sovereignties and counting-- that real people want to live in geographically, ethnically, religiously and culturally coherent entities.

Presumably it will need another change of owebership to stop the Spectator grovelling to the outdated 1945-era model of ever closer political convergence between peoples, which is against evolutionary theory as well as against what human beings, who will always be tribal animals, signal they actually want.

Good luck to the Ossetians and all the other little platoons!

appleman

Interesting article. Even more interesting comments. I felt quite at ease with the Russian-Georgian situation and couldn't understand why. Then I came across a comment about shaking up the complacency of EU diplomats and the pieces fell into place. Churchill is quoted as saying something like "In Victory, Magnanimity" That is one thing we did not show the ex-Soviet Union. Russia is a proud nation (state) and we just crowed. Maybe if we had treated Russia as we did Germany and Japan after WW2, the outcome might have been different. And as for the naivety of Western leaders. WW1 was triggered as much as anything by Russia's support for Serbia. We have allowed Kosova to secede - that is after allowing the dismemberment of the former Yugoslavia. Do we really think Russia is going to take any notice of our hypocritical protestations.

But the problem goes far deeper than this. The liberal elites of the West are as much carriers of the White man's burden and neo-colonialists as any Rhodes. They think they know what's right and insist on spreading their gospel - essentially a liberal Christian theology - around the whole world. Well, surprise, surprise, not everyone wants to share our values, and the world is far more complicated than they thought. Maybe this is a wake-up call to their complacency.

Perhaps globalisation needs to go the same way as multi-culturalism is going in this country - into the history books. For the foreseeable future, there will not be one happy, liberal new world order. There will be power blocks vying for power as there always has been. Don't forget, the people who are now pressing for this NWO are the very ones who forecast peace in our time when the Berlin Wall fell. What ignorance of history. Then we had one major world threat. Now they are multiple.

About the only thing that would persuade me otherwise is if Iraq stayed democratic after the US leaves. We like instant results - other cultures are far more patient. It would not surprise me if the current trend to peace in that sad country is not a facade and once the US does leave, the old forces will arise again to ensure it becomes and remains an Islamic state. Wake up, and grow up, the West

Augustus

Bush may have said to the world that the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia must be respected, but that doesn't stop the Americans from giving the Georgian president a good talking to behind the scenes. After all, Rice had warned Georgia about using arms a month ago.

gobear

Funny how when Israel launched a full-scale invasion of Lebanon recently in pursuit of three missing soldiers, the parrots of the rightwing press squawked them on, and bugger the body count. The nuclear-armed country was only ‘defending its national interest’ and so on. When Russia does something very similar, only more effectively, less bloodily and on a rather more substantial pretext, we get this chorus of garbage about Russian imperialism.
But the Russians can probably afford to ignore the hypocrisy of London and Washington. Modern Western democracies never pick fights with countries that can hit back.

David Hurley

Spiked-Online.com got it right. This crisis "started off as an opportunistic and misconceived local land-grab by a juvenile Georgian government", while the Russian "response to the invasion of South Ossetia by Georgia are no different to those that would have been undertaken by any regional power confronted by a similar challenge".

I wonder what the difference is between South Ossetia and Kosovo? Could it be that Serbia looks to Russia and Georgia looks to America?

Did Saakashvili think he was being clever waiting until Putin was on his way to the Beijing Olympics? He probably thought he was dealing with an EU junket-politician. The fool. Who would you rather have as your friend, Suckervili or Putin? Or your enemy?

Dennis Duggan

A good description of the situation but a wrong prescription. We don't need intellectual imagination as much as we need a Royal Navy and Army that the Russians would have to take seriously.

john Walter

@Lord Baltimore - read Steinemeir's latest comments, preferably the original German rather than the cherry-picked UK media ones. You will see that he is against closing the door to the Russians. Merkel has been doing on the ground shuttle mediating, which is a darn sight more use than Cameron's macho visit. You do have to wonder at the intelligence of this man.

Paskalis

Russia has completely encircled Britain and the US with military bases and Warsaw Pact allies. The threat is clear. The danger is obvious. The only answer is attack! Attack! Attack!

keeneye

When economically and militarily strong nations which are also members of the UN Security Council bully other nations or invade and occupy them, the world is helpless in restraining them. The dictum "Might is right" seems to have been passively accepted by the international community.

Jens Knocke

Brilliant! A pleasure to read - twice.