Ding ding ding! Sparks were flying this morning on Sky News as host Wilfred Frost interviewed the rather combative Home Office minister Diana Johnson about last week’s Supreme Court judgment – which backed the biological definition of a woman. The duo entered into a tense back-and-forth on Sir Keir Starmer’s belated reaction to it all – six days after the ruling, as Mr S noted yesterday – with Johnson eventually admitting that the PM’s dithering on the definition of a woman had contributed to the ‘confusion’ around the trans debate. Better late than never, eh?
Today’s interview follows last Wednesday’s news that Supreme Court justices unanimously ruled that ‘woman’ and ‘sex’ in the Equality Act referred to biological sex, in a round victory for campaign group For Women Scotland. Yet despite the momentous judgment leading newspapers across the country last week, the PM was spotting keeping rather quiet on the whole issue, while Labour ministers Sir Chris Bryant and Angela Eagle attacked the supporters of the decision on WhatsApp. The PM finally admitted on Tuesday that he welcomed the judgment – but when Frost quizzed Johnson today on whether Sir Keir should apologise for the damage his previous oscillating on the issue has done, he got a little more than he bargained for.
Attempting to shut down Frost’s line of questioning, Johnson stated shortly: ‘I think as a woman, I’m not particularly interested in what men think or feel about issues around women’s rights.’ Shots fired! She went on:
What I’m interested in is the law. And what’s really helpful from that Supreme Court judgment last week is the clarity it provides. And I think following the law is absolutely the right thing to do. And that’s why I welcome what the Prime Minister has said about that is the law of the land. And that’s the that’s now where we move forward with.
A stunned Frost pushed back:
WF: You can criticise me. You can say my view is irrelevant all you like.
DJ: I’m not personalising this.
WF: You’re personalising as it relates to the Prime Minister. He’s the prime minister. Whether he’s a man or a woman is irrelevant. His view is critically important on all topics. Just to say because he’s a man you can excuse his error here…
DJ: No, no, no. I’m not saying that.
WF: That is what you said.
DJ: No, I’m saying that what I’m interested in is what the law of the land actually says.
WF: And you’ve acknowledged that the Prime Minister got this wrong? Can he move forward without acknowledging that?
DJ: I think there’s been confusion about this, and that’s why the case went to the Supreme Court… I think recognising that is quite important. Having that judgment from the Supreme Court, I think is really helpful to the Prime Minister, to me as the policing minister, to the government, to the NHS, to policing.
Well, at the very least, hopefully it will prevent the PM from getting himself in further pickles over reproductive organs. But will Starmer offer up an apology to women and girls for his flip-flopping on the matter? Don’t hold your breath…
Watch the clip here:
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