It was a clash of the Euro titans at our latest sell-out Spectator debate: “Britain’s future lies outside the EU”. Nigel Farage led the team for the motion and the former president of France, Valéry Giscard d’Estaing, led the opposition – with Andrew Neil in the chair. Patrick Minford and James Delingpole supported team Farage, while Steve Richards and Richard Ottaway MP spoke for the EU. And there was all to play for. On the way into the debate, the vote was:
For: 196 Against: 105 Undecided: 99
Most popular
Britain fought on the wrong side of the first world war
After the speeches – and Q&A – there were no more undecideds and the votes fell as follows:-
For: 247 Against: 123
Everyone came back to The Spectator’s HQ for dinner, and there was no violence. The arguments were as good as you’d expect – we’ll post the video later.
Britain’s future lies outside the EU. Length: 1:38:00
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[<a href=”//storify.com/spectator/britain-s-future-lies-outside-the-eu” target=”_blank”>View the story “Britain’s future lies outside the EU” on Storify</a>]<br /> <h1>Britain’s future lies outside the EU</h1> <h2>Spectator Debate – 14 March 2013</h2> <p>Storified by <a href=”http://storify.com/spectator”>The Spectator</a>· Thu, Mar 14 2013 14:31:25</p> <div>Debate opens with <b>Nigel Farage MEP</b>:</div> <div>.@nigel_farage is up first at #spectatordebate. EU is yesterday’s problem http://pic.twitter.com/xUSoraJBXkSebastian Payne</div> <div>The idea was to made a United States of Europe – they decided to rebrand that & came up with the Lisbon Treaty, says Farage #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>I believe the sheer stupidity of the the Euro project, where north & south Europe have been locked together will lead to violence in the medThe Spectator</div> <div>I can live with being relegated to the status of Switzerland, says Farage. I haven’t got a problem with that #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>The only obstacle between Britain taking back her independence are the career politicians in the UK #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>Freed from the EU, we can made the City the global powerhouse that it used to be #Farage #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>The sooner we open up the British economy to thinking globally, the better and more prosperous our future will be #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>I am not anti-European. I worked for two French companies…. alright, they both sacked me for insubordination! #spectatordebate #FarageThe Spectator</div> <div>First speaker against the motion, <b>Richard Ottaway MP</b>:</div> <div>The challenges are not from within the EU, but from outside it, said Cameron. I agree, says Ottaway. #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>Clearly there has to be a better deal for those countries in the Euro, those outside the Euro, and those in transition #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>Britain’s membership of the EU brings us a strong voice at the table, and we can influence a strong debate in our favour #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>Leaving the EU ignores the harsh realities of life. Norway and Switzerland don’t call the shots #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>We would still be under the thumb of Brussels if we left the EU, and we would have to pay for the privilege #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>Ukip have a persuasive spokesman. The type of person you might like to have lunch with, although you might be left to pick up the tabThe Spectator</div> <div>Britain fought in two devastating World Wars, and I am part of a generation that has rebuilt that Europe #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>Second speaker in favour of the motion <b>James Delingpole</b>:</div> <div>James Delingpole starts by doing an impression of his car telling him that he’s not wearing ‘my bloody seatbelt’ #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>I did not choose this feature. This feature had been decided for me by a faceless bureaucrat in a European bunker #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>The EU is a one-size-fits-all policy, and we are not one-size-fits-all people #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>I like the fact that in Spain you can go to bullfights, and spend a week without eating a single green vegetable #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>“I don’t like Europe being one anonymous bloc” -@JamesDelingpole @spectator #spectatordebateJake Wallis Simons</div> <div>I would love to hear somebody tell me why it’s a good idea for the EU to fight against the shale-gas miracle #spectatordebate #DelingpoleThe Spectator</div> <div>I love Europe. I hate the European Union. #spectatordebate #DelingpoleThe Spectator</div> <div>Second speaker against the motion, Former President of France <b>Valéry Giscard d’Estaing</b>:</div> <div>Europe is Britain’s biggest market. 50.3% of British goods go to the European market #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>If UK leaves the EU it will lose the economic & commercial benefits of the common market, & will have to renegotiate them #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>British exports will be subject to strict rules of origination, which will add administrative burden, says d’Estaing #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>I bought a ‘British made’ waistcoat today, to contribute to your balance. If you left the EU, it could not necc make that claimThe Spectator</div> <div>There is no credible alternative for the UK, as the US is less interested in a Britain alone, than a European Britain #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>I even believe Britain could become a leader in the Euro 27 #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>The UK has more to lose from leaving the EU, than the EU has to lose from losing the UK #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>Third speaker in favour <b>Patrick Minford</b>:</div> <div>It was a great privilege to hear the president, and what a load of rubbish it was, begins Minford #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>We are always going to be cooperative with our allies and friends – whether or not we’re in the EU #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>In cars, EU prices are 15% above world market prices, maybe even higher #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>Uniformity was brought in, which has been very damaging to many of our industries, and partic. in the City #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>The EU attack on the City attacks 10% of our GDP. They blame the city for the eurocrisis, says Minford #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>“It amazes us they say we should be in Europe for ‘prosperity’. The EU is ruining us” Prof Minford @spectator debateJake Wallis Simons</div> <div>If we liberate our economy, we won’t need inward investment, as our industries will dominate anyway #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>Third speaker against the motion <b>Steve Richards</b>:</div> <div>In this debate, there are two Europes. There is the fantasy Europe, and the real European Union #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>The fantasy Europe intoxicated real pro-Europeans as well, like Tony Blair and Peter Mandelson #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>David Cameron used to hold talks called the post-Bureaucratic era, by the end of which they had created abt 150 bureaucrats #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>If we want the single market to work, we have to have rules. And someone needs to make sure people abide by these rules #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>There are far too many bureaucrats – I agree, says Richards. But bureaucrats are necessary, to enforce rules & cooperation #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>Instead of focusing on pulling out of this thing, we should concentrate on making it more open and more accountable. #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>“The EU referendum will be deeply destabilising and won’t resolve anything at all. Celebrate EU existence” Steve Richards @spectator debateJake Wallis Simons</div> <div>Highlights from questions and answers:</div> <div>Mr President, is the UK having a referendum on the EU a good or a bad thing, asks @afneil. ‘I don’t know’, says d’Estaing #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <div>At The Spectator’s sell-out EU debate, Nigel Farage is asked how long he’d stay quiet for if he loses the referendum. Answer:"About a week".Fraser Nelson</div> <div>It’s a result of EU policy that industry in Lancashire has moved away from there, and moved to India instead, says @JamesDelingpoleThe Spectator</div> <div>The truth of it is that Euroscepticism is growing across all of Europe & that is a good & healthy thing says @Nigel_Farage #spectatordebateThe Spectator</div> <p>
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