Plaid Cymru’s office in the Senedd is quiet. This is perhaps apt for a party that finds itself lost in the political wilderness. Unlike its sister party, the SNP, Plaid are no closer to government after two decades of devolution. To boot, they have also recently found themselves awkwardly overshadowed by a report that found misogyny, harassment and bullying are rife in the party. Its former leader, Adam Price, heralded not long ago as the key to unlocking the dream of Welsh independence, was forced to step down days after its publication.
The opportunity for Plaid Cymru will be a Keir Starmer government in Westminster, ap Iorwerth suggests
I am meeting his replacement, Rhun ap Iorwerth, after his coronation as Price’s successor. No other Plaid candidate wanted to stand against the former BBC journalist, to grasp what could be described as the poison chalice of Welsh politics. The party, which has an intensely rich history, is now at its most critical junction. Is ap Iorwerth the right man for the mammoth task of restoring this nationalist party? ‘I’m genuinely positive about our ability to set things straight,’ the new leader says, while admitting that leading Plaid Cymru is ‘daunting’ in its current predicament.
In recent interviews, ap Iorwerth has been guilty of churning out platitudes when pressed on the damning report into Plaid. Wasn’t he shocked by the revelations? ‘Of course… That report was difficult reading and didn’t reflect the party that we wanted to be and didn’t reflect the values that I know we have and hold very, very dear as a party. But it is of its time. It is something that we are seeing across society. This was our time. We should all as different organisations have dealt with these issues before, but we’re doing it now.’
I point out that one question he didn’t want to answer in a recent media round was whether anyone complained to him directly about the allegations that later surfaced in Prosiect Pawb. I suggest we address it. ‘I am and will try to be as transparent and as open as I can,’ he says, delicately, in response. ‘That’s kind of the way that I do politics. I’d rather give an answer. And what I’ve tried to explain is that: “Was I aware of this culture?” No, this report came as a shock. “Do I want to say I saw nothing?” Well, no, because I feel that would be rather unfair to people who might say, with hindsight, that the signs were there.’
The existential political question that Plaid Cymru has grappled with since its inception in 1925 has been its purpose. In recent years, it has had to make do as a vehicle for policy proposals later adopted by the dominant Welsh Labour party, who have enjoyed nearly a quarter of a century of power in Cardiff. Some would describe Plaid as more of a think tank than a political party. And there is no better evidence for that than the co-operation agreement signed by Mark Drakeford and Adam Price after the Senedd election – when Plaid agreed to vote through a range of left-wing policies where there is cross-party consensus, such as free school meals and regulations on second homes.
This is what ap Iorwerth calls ‘mature politics’, but he admits he wants to ‘to remove Labour from government in Wales’ and it is a ‘frustration’ that the governing party fails to deliver policy effectively and face scrutiny seriously. Again, the tension for Plaid Cymru is that it appears even in this context they are still happy to do Welsh Labour’s work for them. ‘No. I absolutely believe in using our influence in all sorts of different ways,’ he says. ‘The co-operation agreement is innovative, which is why it’s exciting to see things being done from the opposition benches, but I have no doubt in my mind that we do need to be, and want to be, leading the government in Wales.’
But this is a difficult dance: to have one foot in government, the other in opposition. ‘I think people understand that we’re not in government,’ ap Iorwerth asserts, before I point out others disagree – including Welsh Labour parliamentarians who resent their influence. ‘I think there’s an expectation that we do that holding to account in a very firm way,’ is the rebuttal, as ap Iorwerth warms to his subject. ‘Because I believe Labour has mismanaged the NHS. Because I believe Labour is failing to be ambitious as it should be on the economy. Because Labour has failed to get to grips with issues of inequality, child poverty.’ This is a happy marriage set to last in Welsh politics, clearly.
Unlike Labour in Wales, Plaid Cymru cannot claim to be natural winners. Its heartlands in north and west Wales, with the odd election victory in the Valleys and industrial towns, give it only three seats (out of 40) at Westminster, while they are the third largest party behind the Conservatives in the Senedd. As the member for Ynys Môn, ap Iorwerth will have to appeal to working-class voters that are aligned to Labour’s distinctive Welsh communitarian ethos, an intoxicating political and cultural brand.
The opportunity for Plaid Cymru will be a Keir Starmer government in Westminster, ap Iorwerth suggests, and it isn’t hard to see why. A tired Welsh Labour administration with a new first minister, after the expected retirement of Mark Drakeford in 2024, coupled with a Downing Street struggling to deal with a challenging economic inheritance, may provide an electoral opening by the next devolved election in 2026.
‘I don’t think people have got to know Keir Starmer,’ ap Iorwerth says. If the party finds itself in power in Cardiff and London, he predicts that the public will see ‘that Labour in Wales can’t face both ways. You can’t have a leader in Wales talking the talk on the devolution of welfare, HS2 funding, policing and all these things, when the leader of their party is refusing to give Wales the respect that we need and the tools to take the country forward.’ He goes on to say that Plaid Cymru will ‘want to exploit that and show that for what it is.’
In spite of the hypotheticals, one thing is certain: Welsh independence, Plaid Cymru’s central mission, remains a minority cause – hovering at around or below 30 per cent in opinion polls. The growth in support over a decade has been notable from the single digits, but momentum has markedly slowed in the last couple of years. It is a raison d’être that makes Plaid unique and appealing, at least distinctive from Welsh Labour in one policy area, but also turns off the same people that ap Iorwerth wants to steal from other parties on the left and the right. ‘Which is why I will be framing it as a debate on the future of Wales. The idea of independence is scary to many people… I want people to take a step back and be willing to engage in looking at another way.’
Price was criticised when he put independence front and centre of the party’s mission in the Senedd election in 2021, at the height of a pandemic. So will ap Iorwerth do the same? ‘Well, it’s a core element of what we are as a party, and I think it’s important to be very transparent on that.’ To me, it sounds like the new leader – who is widely known as a pragmatist – is managing the expectations of his members, which Price elevated too high. ‘Managing expectations sounds a bit negative. I’m a hugely ambitious politician; not for myself, but for my country.’
In spite of this ambition, there are steep obstacles in the way for the nationalist movements in Britain. Even before its existing calamitous difficulties, the SNP’s route to a referendum was hampered continuously by the UK government’s challenges in the courts. I suggest the path to any referendum in Wales, if – and it is a big if– the level of support for independence increases any further, would be equally challenging.
‘I can see why you’re saying that. But it doesn’t change the context in which I have my vision for Wales, and my absolute belief that we have to be on that trajectory.’ He argues that support for Scotland remains ‘very, very high’ despite the internal problems of the SNP, and that there is a clear trajectory toward a united Ireland. The elusive issue is what success looks like for Wales, and Plaid Cymru.
Despite insisting that there are no areas that are ‘off limits’, ap Iorwerth refuses to put a number on how many seats in Westminster or Cardiff Bay he would like to win. ‘I want to know that we will have done everything that we can to make ourselves fit for those elections in parts of Wales, where it has been difficult for us to win elections,’ he says of his ambition as leader. ‘This is just my opportunity to try to influence the future of Wales.’
Indeed, that has been, and will continue to be, the opportunity for Welsh nationalists. The problem is that in many ways, over several years, they have failed to take their chance. Rhun ap Iorwerth will hope that history does not keep repeating itself.
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