Historian Niall Ferguson writes in this week's cover piece that, even before coronavirus, the Cold War between America and China was already getting underway. With the current pandemic, animosity between the two superpowers has only increased. So when it comes to the geopolitics of the 'corona wars', who will win? Niall tells Cindy on the podcast that it may not be either; that when it comes to pandemics, city-states actually do better than empires. That's the Taiwans, the South Koreas, and the Singapores. He's joined on the podcast by Gerard Baker, the editor at large of the Wall Street Journal. They discuss the long term impact of this pandemic on international relations, where Gerry warns that the coming economic crash will shake up politics to such an extent as to make Trump and Brexit pale in comparison.